I think it's fair to say that he could have tried threatening him with the gun at the back of his head instead of immediately pulling the trigger. Again, a training issue.
Fatal Shooting by Police in Grand Rapids
- Thread starter gohawks50
- Start date
But even not familiar with “American policing rules” why wouldn’t he comply? I bet if you fight a cop in some country they hang you by your thumbs. But he knew damn well what he was doing and you know it..
Those are great points. I hadn't considered all those possible scenarios. You really know how to put things in perspective.
If I was the cop, first I would wonder if the guy has a kilo of coke in the car, then my mind would start racing. Maybe it's not a kilo of coke, but a kilo of C4. But who has just a kilo of C4? Maybe it's three kilos. Maybe it's not just C4, maybe it's something way worse that I haven't even heard of, what if this guy was going to blow up a school? Maybe, it's even worse than that.
Once I considered those possibilities, I'd skip the taser, and go straight for the gun, and use however many bullets needed to protect the school kids.
Yep, them white cops hunt them black people like pheasants..
I watched the videos, and tried to give myself time to think about it. I admit that I tend to be biased against police.
For me, it came down to 'was the cop justified because he had a reasonable fear for his life'. Based on the fact that the Lyoya was trying to take the taser, I'd say the shooting was justified. I thought the cop acted reasonably from the beginning, even trying to explain the stop and detention. the cop didn't seem to be angry or particularly hostile under the circumstances.
For me, it came down to 'was the cop justified because he had a reasonable fear for his life'. Based on the fact that the Lyoya was trying to take the taser, I'd say the shooting was justified. I thought the cop acted reasonably from the beginning, even trying to explain the stop and detention. the cop didn't seem to be angry or particularly hostile under the circumstances.
Pretty sure the cop was unaware he was in need of back up until the guy started resisting.
Yep. Exactly. Nailed it.
Over a expired registration sticker? Instead of shooting them in the back of the head?
Yes. Absolutely.
Seen plenty of videos of people complying and then still getting beaten and/or shot.
- Sep 13, 2002
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You thought that guy looked like he knew what he was doing?
We will have to agree to disagree. He looked confused and panicked to me.
And?? Even if you're right is running away a capital crime? He was pulled over so the cop could write a fine and collect revenue for the city. He got shot in the back of the head over that. It's nuts.
Yeah for such an educated man you are a f*cking idiot. I hope you don’t get pulled over sometime but if you do please resist and see what the outcome will be.
FWIW, cop didn't know who he was yet. Registration didn't match and the driver didn't produce a license.
Jesus Christ. Way to skip over everything that happened in between knot head.
I watched both videos and am left with two thoughts:
1. It’s amazing the amount of crap police officers have to go through dealing with the general public. They need more pay and better support.
2. The outcome is terribly tragic and unfortunate, but I can’t say the officer was in the wrong here. He did everything he possibly could to get the suspect to comply with lawful orders and the man in question fought him tooth and nail. I see the final outcome—the suspect being shot in the head—as a result of the imminent danger the suspect posed to the officer should the suspect have gained control of the taser, as he could have easily incapacitated the officer and had access to his gun.
I’m not sure what is so controversial here. The shooting seems 100% justified.
1. It’s amazing the amount of crap police officers have to go through dealing with the general public. They need more pay and better support.
2. The outcome is terribly tragic and unfortunate, but I can’t say the officer was in the wrong here. He did everything he possibly could to get the suspect to comply with lawful orders and the man in question fought him tooth and nail. I see the final outcome—the suspect being shot in the head—as a result of the imminent danger the suspect posed to the officer should the suspect have gained control of the taser, as he could have easily incapacitated the officer and had access to his gun.
I’m not sure what is so controversial here. The shooting seems 100% justified.
Thanks! It's always nice to have pleasant conversations with like minded individuals.
None of those are capital crimes either. Let's review.
Cop pulled guy over on fishing expedition/revenue grab
Guy seems to have trouble understanding him
Cop decides to put hands on him
Guy tries to avoid said hands
Cop tries to tazer, misses, then loses tazer
Some wrestling
Cop shoots him in the back of the head
At the very least the take away should be that the cop is terrible at his job.
I don't know shit about being a cop but i know enough about human behavior to see the way he reacted when the cop asked him to get back in the vehicle. The cop started picking up on those red flags immediately. That guy had ZERO interest in getting back in that car for whatever reason.
Damn, looks like a hit job, bullet to the back of the head.
The guy who was pulled over for the plates not matching the vehicle was about to run.
Got it.
He didn't have shoes on.
He didn't brandish a weapon.
The cop had at least one minute and thirty seconds of video of the guy's face, the guy's voice and the guy's buddy still in the car.
How far is that guy going to go?
How long is it going to take to get him ID'd and issue a warrant?
I'm sorry but all of the "there might have been a gun in the car" and "there may have been a kilo of coke" in the car folks aren't thinking this through. The cop, knowing that there is another male in the car, ran after the driver, leaving the other passenger alone. If he thought that these two were a couple of hardened criminals who were running drugs and armed to the teeth, then what the "f" is he doing - running after one, tackling him, wrestling him around on the ground, etc. That cop had zero concerns about the passenger. None. Entirely inconsistent with someone who was thinking "I just stumbled into a seriously dangerous situation."
I missed the part of the story where the car was reported stolen, the plates were reported stolen, the driver was an identified suspect for the commission of some other crime, etc.
The driver wasn't speeding. He wasn't driving erratically. It was 8:15 in the morning.
Every story I've read (and the video doesn't refute it) suggests that the cop - for whatever reason - decided to run the plates of that particular vehicle as it drove by him.
Proportionality.
Belem, nothing personal, but I am absolutely amazed sometimes by the depth of your stupidity.
The suspect got shot in the back of the head because he posed an imminent threat to the officer. Period. He posed an imminent threat to the officer because he was trying to gain control of the officer’s taser, which would have resulted in him having the ability to incapacitate the officer and gain access to his gun.
This is not a difficult judgment to make.
- Sep 13, 2002
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100%.
I'm not saying the guy's behavior was appropriate. I'm simply saying his body language and other indicators didn't seem to be someone who "knew what they were doing." Like I said, he looked confused and agitated.
Holy shit.
Cop pulls car over for plates
Person in vehicle gets out of vehicle.
Cop clearly tells him to get back in the vehicle.
Cop clarifies perp speaks English.
Perp refuses to do as told cop attempts to detain him.
Guy takes off. Cop shoots taser and it does not incapacitate perp. Not sure if it was a miss or malfunction.
"Some wrestling " involves the perp going for the police weapon.
The way that you guys talk about being a cop is ridiculous.
This shooting didn't occur because of an expired registration sticker.
The guy has committed crimes - though not capital - in front of and to the officer and can not/will not identify himself.
This dude needs to be detained at this point until he can provide some ID at least. Whether the string of events he initiated led the officer to make a justifiable shooting is a separate question.
Why would I have any concern about how a cop is going to treat me? I'm in my mid-50s, I'm white and I drive a Lexus.
Go ahead and test that theory of yours.
Ahh, there it is. The white guilt. It’s ok buddy. A lexus is for poors. At least you have that going for you.
Again . . . why would I think that a cop who pulled me over for speeding (I can have a heavy foot from time to time) would do anything to me? I don't fit the demographic.
And, while I don't have the time to type it now, I have had an interaction with a cop that resulted in me having a cop pull a gun on me, having to get out of the car, being told that I was placed under arrest, asked to have my hands placed on my trunk and thrown in handcuffs (Illinois computer records mistakenly had my license showing as suspended).
I've had many moments since then where I've felt thankful that I looked the way I looked.
