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Finland: This is crazy !!

IMCC965

IMCC965

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Gold Member
May 12, 2009
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North Liberty
Police have access to your tax records in order to determine how much a speeding ticket is? Nuts!

Gotta love socialism.




In Finland, traffic violation fees are on a "sliding-scale" basis, according to the seriousness of the traffic offense and how much the offender makes.
Which is bad news for rich people with bad driving habits because authorities check your tax returns should you surface on their radar.

Meet businessman Reima Kuisla. The BBC reported poor, or rather rich, Mr. Kuisla was driving 14 mph over the speed limit and was stopped by a police officer. After perusing his 2013 tax return, he was issued a ticket for almost $60,000.
His tax returns revealed he brought in $7.2M in 2013.
But, at least they have universal healthcare.
Mr. Kuisla posted on his Facebook page: "Finland is impossible to live in for certain kinds of people who have high incomes and wealth."




Link
 
I think you buried the lead, $60K for 14 mph? (or was it kph?). On the flip side, if they had this rule in Ferguson, MO. that community would be a lot different.
 
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Originally posted by naturalmwa:
I think you buried the lead, $60K for 14 mph? (or was it kph?). On the flip side, if they had this rule in Ferguson, MO. that community would be a lot different.
Click to expand...
How so?
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:
I think you buried the lead, $60K for 14 mph? (or was it kph?). On the flip side, if they had this rule in Ferguson, MO. that community would be a lot different.
Click to expand...
How so?
Click to expand...
The cops wouldn't be pulling over a bunch of poor black folk to line their pockets.
Click to expand...
Interesting view. My view is if the poor black folks knew the police wouldn't pull them over, it would be out of control and lead to more instances of traffic accidents and crime. Same with the poor white folk as well.

Question: Do you think that if the police decided to enforce only the major crimes, that the crime rate would fall and there'd be less victims?
 
Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:
I think you buried the lead, $60K for 14 mph? (or was it kph?). On the flip side, if they had this rule in Ferguson, MO. that community would be a lot different.
Click to expand...
How so?
Click to expand...
The cops wouldn't be pulling over a bunch of poor black folk to line their pockets.
Click to expand...
Interesting view. My view is if the poor black folks knew the police wouldn't pull them over, it would be out of control and lead to more instances of traffic accidents and crime. Same with the poor white folk as well.

Question: Do you think that if the police decided to enforce only the major crimes, that the crime rate would fall and there'd be less victims?
Click to expand...
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter so I'm willing to be persuaded, but my guess would be probably. I think there needs to be degree of permissiveness towards victimless crimes. I also think there needs to be prioritization to best utilizes limited resources. So I would prefer that cops focus less on going 14 mph over the speed limit and more on actual drunk or reckless driving to return to your original example. I do realize that presents a problem, namely how do you know a driver is drunk unless you stop cars breaking minor rules. But the place to solve that is in the enforcement. A speeding ticket absent any other aggravating factors should usually end with just a warning and a recording on their record to deter abuse. Maybe a $6 - $60 ticket, not a $60,000 one.
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:
I think you buried the lead, $60K for 14 mph? (or was it kph?). On the flip side, if they had this rule in Ferguson, MO. that community would be a lot different.
Click to expand...
How so?
Click to expand...
The cops wouldn't be pulling over a bunch of poor black folk to line their pockets.
Click to expand...
Interesting view. My view is if the poor black folks knew the police wouldn't pull them over, it would be out of control and lead to more instances of traffic accidents and crime. Same with the poor white folk as well.

Question: Do you think that if the police decided to enforce only the major crimes, that the crime rate would fall and there'd be less victims?
Click to expand...
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter so I'm willing to be persuaded, but my guess would be probably. I think there needs to be degree of permissiveness towards victimless crimes. I also think there needs to be prioritization to best utilizes limited resources. So I would prefer that cops focus less on going 14 mph over the speed limit and more on actual drunk or reckless driving to return to your original example. I do realize that presents a problem, namely how do you know a driver is drunk unless you stop cars breaking minor rules. But the place to solve that is in the enforcement. A speeding ticket absent any other aggravating factors should usually end with just a warning and a recording on their record to deter abuse. Maybe a $6 - $60 ticket, not a $60,000 one.
Click to expand...
No such thing as a "victimless" crime, by the way. And NO ONE has ever been stopped for drunk driving.

Police don't make the rules, they only enforce the ones that legislators concoct. I know they can practice discretion, but that's an individual thing. Some laws, however, they cannot practice discretion. For example, DeBlasio put in place the law to arrest people selling "loosies" in order to dissuade people from taking business away from local store owners. That's a fact. It's bullshit, but it's a fact.
 
Originally posted by IMCC965:

No such thing as a "victimless" crime, by the way. And NO ONE has ever been stopped for drunk driving.

Police don't make the rules, they only enforce the ones that legislators concoct. I know they can practice discretion, but that's an individual thing. Some laws, however, they cannot practice discretion. For example, DeBlasio put in place the law to arrest people selling "loosies" in order to dissuade people from taking business away from local store owners. That's a fact. It's bullshit, but it's a fact.
Click to expand...
How do you figure there aren't victimless crimes? You're telling me you think every law and regulation is valid? You seem to have a pretty big government mindset here, which is sort of interesting given your other positions.
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

No such thing as a "victimless" crime, by the way. And NO ONE has ever been stopped for drunk driving.

Police don't make the rules, they only enforce the ones that legislators concoct. I know they can practice discretion, but that's an individual thing. Some laws, however, they cannot practice discretion. For example, DeBlasio put in place the law to arrest people selling "loosies" in order to dissuade people from taking business away from local store owners. That's a fact. It's bullshit, but it's a fact.
Click to expand...
How do you figure there aren't victimless crimes? You're telling me you think every law and regulation is valid? You seem to have a pretty big government mindset here, which is sort of interesting given your other positions.
Click to expand...
How can there not be? Give me one example of a victimless crime, just one. And no, not every law and regulation is valid. But if they're on the books, they need to be enforced until they're taken off the books. Doesn't matter if we like them or agree with them or not, but if you break the law, you break the law.

This is why I LOVE Mia Love. She wants to deregulate and take unnecessary laws off the books. I hope she gets it done.
 
Originally posted by IMCC965:
How can there not be? Give me one example of a victimless crime, just one. And no, not every law and regulation is valid. But if they're on the books, they need to be enforced until they're taken off the books. Doesn't matter if we like them or agree with them or not, but if you break the law, you break the law.

This is why I LOVE Mia Love. She wants to deregulate and take unnecessary laws off the books. I hope she gets it done.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you must have dozens already in mind. Surly you and love wouldn't get rid of a law or regulation that was saving people, right? So every one of those unnecessary laws and regulations must represent a victimless crime. I don't know how you could hold both ideas in your head at the same time. Either there or victimless crimes in which case we should get rid of the laws. Or every law is valid.

Your internal conflict between traditional conservative law and order views and the newly in fashion republican notion that all government is inherently liberal and thus bad is interesting. I understand how different wings of the R party might represent each, but to hold both views at the same time in your head is worth exploring.

This post was edited on 3/8 4:32 PM by naturalmwa
 
Originally posted by IMCC965:



Originally posted by naturalmwa:



Originally posted by IMCC965:

No such thing as a "victimless" crime, by the way. And NO ONE has ever been stopped for drunk driving.

Police don't make the rules, they only enforce the ones that legislators concoct. I know they can practice discretion, but that's an individual thing. Some laws, however, they cannot practice discretion. For example, DeBlasio put in place the law to arrest people selling "loosies" in order to dissuade people from taking business away from local store owners. That's a fact. It's bullshit, but it's a fact.
Click to expand...
How do you figure there aren't victimless crimes? You're telling me you think every law and regulation is valid? You seem to have a pretty big government mindset here, which is sort of interesting given your other positions.
Click to expand...
And no, not every law and regulation is valid. But if they're on the books, they need to be enforced until they're taken off the books. Doesn't matter if we like them or agree with them or not, but if you break the law, you break the law.
Click to expand...
You want to try that again? You're really saying that even though not every law is valid, if they are on the books, then the invalid laws should continue to be enforced?

I'm pretty sure Iowa still has a blue law that prohibits a car dealership from selling cars on Sunday. Should the state raid and prosecute Betts (Willis) Cadillac today? If they did, we all know it would be thrown out of court as an unconstitutional restriction on the right to contract. But the law is still on the books.

So you still say enforce all invalid laws if they are on the books?







This post was edited on 3/8 3:19 PM by St. Louis Hawk
 
Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by IMCC965:

No such thing as a "victimless" crime, by the way. And NO ONE has ever been stopped for drunk driving.

Police don't make the rules, they only enforce the ones that legislators concoct. I know they can practice discretion, but that's an individual thing. Some laws, however, they cannot practice discretion. For example, DeBlasio put in place the law to arrest people selling "loosies" in order to dissuade people from taking business away from local store owners. That's a fact. It's bullshit, but it's a fact.
Click to expand...
How do you figure there aren't victimless crimes? You're telling me you think every law and regulation is valid? You seem to have a pretty big government mindset here, which is sort of interesting given your other positions.
Click to expand...
How can there not be? Give me one example of a victimless crime, just one. And no, not every law and regulation is valid. But if they're on the books, they need to be enforced until they're taken off the books. Doesn't matter if we like them or agree with them or not, but if you break the law, you break the law.

This is why I LOVE Mia Love. She wants to deregulate and take unnecessary laws off the books. I hope she gets it done.

I've a few. Try these on:

A, single, 30 year old growing/smoking Marijuana in his basement alone and playing video games.

Selling a case of home brewed beer to a friend to cover the cost of supplies.

Jay walking/running a red in broad daylight on an empty road.

Two clear minded adults agreeing to trade goods for sexual services, without coercion.

How about a bartender serving a 20 year old a beer at 11:59 PM the night before their birthday?
Click to expand...
 
It's actually a brilliant system as it punishes everyone equally. If the idea behind the law is to dissuade the action and not to just generate revenue this is the right way to do it.
 
naturalmwa said:
The cops wouldn't be pulling over a bunch of poor black folk to line their pockets.
Click to expand...
I think you’re mistaken. It’s the unpaid fines that get you into the more expensive parts of ‘the system’.
They wring money out of folks going through jail.
 
Why not just do this based on the year/make/model of car being driven?

2021 Mercedes? $60,000

2001 Ford? The police give you some money.
 
IMCC965 said:
How can there not be? Give me one example of a victimless crime, just one. And no, not every law and regulation is valid. But if they're on the books, they need to be enforced until they're taken off the books. Doesn't matter if we like them or agree with them or not, but if you break the law, you break the law.

This is why I LOVE Mia Love. She wants to deregulate and take unnecessary laws off the books. I hope she gets it done.
Click to expand...
Mia Love is a fraud
 
Traditionally, cops pick on beater cars (regardless of the race of the driver) because people who drive nice cars can afford lawyers.
 
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