Where did I say Cael can't develop wrestlers?
Don, if you are going to chime in, then try paying attention to the actual discussion. Otherwise stay out and move along.
FloWrestling's Early Look at Team Recruiting Rankings
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Where did I say Cael can't develop wrestlers?
Don, if you are going to chime in, then try paying attention to the actual discussion. Otherwise stay out and move along.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Speaking as an AP Euro History educator, you can't get rid of bias...it's everywhere. Some might argue that a photograph has no bias. However, the photographer selected the time and place to take pictures and selected the picture to share, so there is bias there. The audience also has bias as well.
Nobody claims to be bias, that's just stupid. The world takes a look at who the author is, type of platform used to show their work, who the intended audience is, timing, and purpose of their piece in order to determine their point of view. If too much bias is shown, the author will be mocked and their credibility will be questioned or be destroyed.
Smalls, you have bias even though you try to be objective. And this is magnified when Iowa fans have bias as well!
Nobody claims to be bias, that's just stupid. The world takes a look at who the author is, type of platform used to show their work, who the intended audience is, timing, and purpose of their piece in order to determine their point of view. If too much bias is shown, the author will be mocked and their credibility will be questioned or be destroyed.
Smalls, you have bias even though you try to be objective. And this is magnified when Iowa fans have bias as well!
^^^ that's a product of snowflakish post modernism.
Iowa fans have bias towards Iowa because it's Iowa.
I have bias towards PSU because.....?
can we boil this down? - I'm biased because I say that Cael - who has won 6 of 7 titles, whose team set the highest point total in 20 years, who had 5 NCAA champs in a row (4 of whom were Soph or younger), whose team is annually full of the most prolific point scorers, and who won 3 of the last 7 Hodge Trophies, is a good coach.
fine. i'm biased
is it ok that i say that Mark Manning, Tom Brands, John Smith, Tom Ryan etc are good coaches? because they didn't do the above. if i say they are good coaches, would that be speculation and bias?
Iowa fans have bias towards Iowa because it's Iowa.
I have bias towards PSU because.....?
can we boil this down? - I'm biased because I say that Cael - who has won 6 of 7 titles, whose team set the highest point total in 20 years, who had 5 NCAA champs in a row (4 of whom were Soph or younger), whose team is annually full of the most prolific point scorers, and who won 3 of the last 7 Hodge Trophies, is a good coach.
fine. i'm biased
is it ok that i say that Mark Manning, Tom Brands, John Smith, Tom Ryan etc are good coaches? because they didn't do the above. if i say they are good coaches, would that be speculation and bias?
I don’t care about smalls bias. However saying Cael is a good coach is different than comparing his “development” of talent to Gable. That’s unmerited and ludicrous.
Different eras. If one were to say that Gable was better at recognizing talent than anyone else during the 80s, would that be an insult to his coaching skills?
No, because Gable was the best at recognizing talent that he could coach up. So he had excellent coaching skills.
So if Mark Hall only got a 30% schollie then he will end up owing $126,000 in student loan debt. You can do the math on all the other top tens.
A lot of ignorant assumptions there. Did Mark get any academic aid? Local scholarships? I can only imagine that a family who has moved a kid all over the country from a very young age to further his wrestling career would probably be willing to help him with college expenses (you know, like 90% of parents around the country do).
But no, none of those factors are in play...it's gotta be cheating .
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Ignorant assumptions? You mean like 90% of parents paying for kids college expenses?
why does a perfectly good wrestling discussion have to devolve into this (which has been beaten to death)?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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While you're here, what's your take on it? How does PSU manage to bring in this sheer number of top p4p ranked guys who could definitely get a full ride at a huge number of schools? It's been beaten to death on the forums, but I don't think I've ever heard your or CPs take on it. Maybe you've already discussed it on FRL though?
You build it they will come just like the Gable era people like to be associated with winners not whinners.What makes me laugh is nobody knows how much $ anyone is on or was on.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I don't have the stats, but I don't think Gable was bringing in p4p recruits at near the amount that Cael is currently.
NO ONE has! You can be sure if Flo had been in existence and Gable had been bringing in half as many top ten recruites it would have been right out there along with, “Gable is BAD for wrestling”, which was voiced by various media outlets.
If you think that recruits are going and paying their own dime because “it’s Penn State” you have no clue. Like Don said, it will be epic when we beat them with their current “tactics.”
1. I said HELP them with college expenses.
2. I didn't do a statistical analysis, but I think it's fair to say most kids in college probably get at least a little help from the folks.
Anyway, the point stands.
What are the tactics tell us.Like Willie said on Flo last week if other D1 coaches have evidence of them cheating then why haven't they turned them in.Probably cause no one has any.And I'm not a fan of Penn St I actually think there fans have become the most annoying fans around.The problem I have is that there are so many of them that jumped on the wagon and were nowhere to be found before Cael
what on god's earth leads you to believe that I would say that if it was Gable or Tom Ryan or John Smith or anyone else?
i (selfishly) wish schollies were public record. so i have no idea how they do it. all i know is that every message board thread turns into a discussion on it.
you really expect anyone to believe that you have absolutely no idea? I thought it was rich parents, uncles or parents that were ok with going $150,000 or more in debt.
I believe him so there's at least one. Of course, I foolishly don't feel coaches would share financial information with Willie, CP or any other media outlet out there.
But then you most likely also foolishly think that the only way for the media to have any idea of what or how something is being done is through the coaches.
I'm actually trying to draw it out of you who his sources are. You obviously speak as if you're in the know... so please....do share.
Society is funny doesn't matter the sport everytime someone or a team is on top they gotta be cheating or doing steroids.But yet no one has any evidence of it just all rumors.Jealousy might be one of the worst diseases not talked about
It might be one of the worst but its definitely the funniest...
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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To be fair - some sports like MMA/NFL/cycling/baseball (ok all sports?), steroids are prolific. As the Diaz bro's say: "they're all on steroids". Anyone see Darren Till TKO Cowboy Cerrone today? Till looked pretty suspect.
I would be shocked if there wasn't substantial PED use in NCAA wrestling as well as I do not think the testing is very stringent.
One would think with wrestling being such a niche sport, fans of all schools would be more like a fraternity instead of trying to throw rival programs under the bus. They do it out of jealousy.
With all the programs being dropped throughout the years, low attendance numbers at some schools and even the Olympics trying to drop the sport, why not try to promote and grow the sport through positives instead of giving it a black eye with unfounded speculation? Again, it's raging jealousy. With it, you have no control and you certainly feel no shame..
If you are so concerned about jealousy, stay on your own board. Don't come here an whine as per usual.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Oh stfu. This is a wrestling board. People coming here are hardcore fans and aren't going to quit watching b/c people are questioning how PSU is pulling in this many recruits. Are you fking kidding me?
If it wasn't so damned funny I probably would. Watching adults cry "cheater...cheater.." like a 5 year old is entertainment at its finest.
These questions are definitely not solely jealousy driven. It may be for some, but many should be wondering how it is being done. No team has consistently recruited this many blue chips year after year. I genuinely want to know how he is doing it, and would be just as interested in finding out how, if MSU was somehow pulling it off.
Remember, I haven't said they have to be cheating. But, I would be surprised if they aren't working in some grey areas. I simply can't see how they are hauling in 8 top 30 recruits from this class when you have Nolf, Nickal and Nevills coming back for 2 more seasons. Hall and Joseph are coming back for 3 and Lee, Berge, Verkleeren and Manville are just starting their careers. That is 17 guys to spread money around without even considering ANY other guy in the room.
I am sorry, but if you don't see the need to ask the question you are either blind or too loyal to care.
Remember, I haven't said they have to be cheating. But, I would be surprised if they aren't working in some grey areas. I simply can't see how they are hauling in 8 top 30 recruits from this class when you have Nolf, Nickal and Nevills coming back for 2 more seasons. Hall and Joseph are coming back for 3 and Lee, Berge, Verkleeren and Manville are just starting their careers. That is 17 guys to spread money around without even considering ANY other guy in the room.
I am sorry, but if you don't see the need to ask the question you are either blind or too loyal to care.
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Why doesn't the NCAA ask guys like Spencer Lee and Kyle Snyder how PSU is cheating? Hell, why isn't Tom Brands and Tom Ryan asking and taking that information to the NCAA themselves instead of allowing PSU to beat them down every year in the recruiting game? Should be simple enough right? Those top recruits that didn't choose Penn State should be more than willing to share what PSU was offering to "pay" them when they were being recruited by Cael. Or don't they care to lose out on team championships to a school that is cheating? How about Suriano. He sure seems to have a gripe with PSU. Why doesnt he bring them down a notch and let everyone know the real reason he went to PSU.
I don't know the answers and THAT is the point. It is mind boggling to me. Goals or not, parents with money or not, it is exceptionally hard for me to wrap my head around people giving up tens of thousands ranging to 6 figures of paid tuition just to wrestle at PSU. And, again, I would say the same thing no matter what program was doing it.
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