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FloWrestling's Early Look at Team Recruiting Rankings

I have twin nieces. Their dad took a lower paying job at St. Francis University so one day his daughters could go to school there at nearly no cost. After graduation they both attended St Francis for 1 year. After their first year, both decided to transfer to schools with a stronger focus on the performing arts in Pittsburgh. The girls knew their education would now have to be funded through student loans and they would one day be on the hook to repay those loans. I couldn't believe it, they did it anyway.

Those girls wanted to be in the city, performing in theater, playing their musical instruments and they didn't care at what cost. St. Francis didn't provide what they were looking for. Their dad was pissed, oh believe me when I say he was pissed but he relented and let them make their own choices. I honestly feel a lot of that "making their own choices" is happening at PSU right now.
 
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I have twin nieces. Their dad took a lower paying job at St. Francis University so one day his daughters could go to school there at nearly no cost. After graduation they both attended St Francis for 1 year. After their first year, both decided to transfer to schools with a stronger focus on the performing arts in Pittsburgh. The girls knew their education would now have to be funded through student loans and they would one day be on the hook to repay those loans. I couldn't believe it, they did it anyway.

Those girls wanted to be in the city, performing in theater, playing their musical instruments and they didn't care at what cost. St. Francis didn't provide what they were looking for. Their dad was pissed, oh believe me when I say he was pissed but he relented and let them make their own choices. I honestly feel a lot of that "making their own choices" is happening at PSU right now.

That's a terrible comparison. Could those nieces have received full rides to attend a University with very similar credentials and resources as the Pittsburgh school? Probably not.
 
I'm going to add this, these damn 18 year old kids have no concept of money and the years of struggling to pay back student loans. They just don't. If they want to go to a certain school, and if mommy and daddy aren't rich, they have absolutely no problem signing on the dotted line because they want they want when they want it. I'm actually struggling with all this as we speak with my own kid and his choice of colleges. Telling the kid I paid back student loans for twenty years means nothing to him. A blank stare like "yeah... and your point is?" Lol
 
I'm going to add this, these damn 18 year old kids have no concept of money and the years of struggling to pay back student loans. They just don't. If they want to go to a certain school, and if mommy and daddy aren't rich, they have absolutely no problem signing on the dotted line because they want they want when they want it. I'm actually struggling with all this as we speak with my own kid and his choice of colleges. Telling the kid I paid back student loans for twenty years means nothing to him. A blank stare like "yeah... and your point is?" Lol
That’s too bad. My kids were much more mature and prepared to make the decision on which colleges were the best fit both educationally and financially. My youngest will be finishing up her PHD next year. Yes, she has loans but they are managable due to the fact that “scholarships” which she deserved and had earned reduced the need for loans significantly. Kids that qualify deserve and expect what they have earned.
 
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That’s too bad. My kids were much more mature and prepared to make the decision on which colleges were the best fit both educationally and financially. My youngest will be finishing up her PHD next year. Yes, she has loans but they are managable due to the fact that “scholarships” which she deserved and had earned reduced the need for loans significantly. Kids that qualify deserve and expect what they have earned.
Congrats, you must be one proud poppa. But yeah, I certainly fell short in some areas as a parent and it became quite clear one of them was teaching him the basic fundamentals of economics and financial responsibility. It's cool though, I just blame it on his mother... lol
 
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and i genuinely appreciate the wrestling talk. (and gave a hat tip to this board on FRL yesterday. in fact i mention this board often).

Rossel - i didn't mean you, specifically. i meant there was (at the time of that episode) (and still is) a lot of talk about how good a coach Cael really is.

can you find the episode? (you cite the 18min mark). i can't.

i don't know what i possibly could have meant by 'doubters' or 'swagger'. there had to be some context to it.

let me also address this:
"You followed that with a tribute to how Cael develops talent at PSU, the proof being "look at PSU racking up bonus pts at the ncaa."

and this:
"An aside... despite the pro-PSU bias"

both connotatively and literally, you're writing something I entirely disagree with.

of course, it's on the heels of a similar perspective by Jammen (whose M.O. as the world's foremost PSU whiner, i couldn't care less about).

the fact of the matter is it's not a PSU bias, and not anything I say about them is not a 'tribute' or a method of sucking up - it's my honest assessment and one I don't really know how any one could argue with.

I don't know why it has to insinuated (or even posited bluntly) that my opinion is an angle. 1) there is absolutely nothing to gain by me (or flo) 'sucking up' to penn state. i mean, what do I get from lauding penn state? nothing. 2) i believe the facts are with me in the debate to conclude if penn state can coach them up or not. Part of the Iowa mystique was that their starters (and even backups) could beat about anyone at any time. When I was a growing up, it was almost incomprehensible how many matches hawkeyes won that they 'weren't supposed to'. I see the same thing in the current incarnation at PSU. In December of '12 Zain Retherford was dead to rights against Joey Galasso in powerade semis. He rode out the third and won in OT. Then beat a FR Mason Manville in the finals, 2-0. The next season, he beat Logan Stieber. A FR Zain shouldn't have been beating Logan. A FR Nolf shouldn't be beating IMAR. A FR Ed Ruth shouldn't be picking apart #1 Mack Lewnes. All this - according to some - is washed away by saying 'look at what they were ranked in HS'. Subjectively - I SEE the development from HS wrestler to what they become in college. There is development there - and leaps. Objectively - PSU had 4 wrestlers that were FR or SO last year win a National Championship. I think it takes almost a degree of insanity to marginalize that by saying they were talented in HS. 3) calling it 'bias', to me, is really aggravating. I work for a media company, I consistently call things how I see them, there is nothing to be gained by 'bias'. IDK why you wouldn't, at the very least, arrive at the conclusion that this is my informed opinion (even if you disagree with it) as opposed to dismissing it as a preference or agenda.

i've said it before and i'll say it again - PSU fans think we're OSU biased because we stream their home duals. Iowa says we're biased because we talk about how good a team that won 6 of 7 are. And the rest of the country say we're Iowa biased because we've done 100 docs and coverages of them. It gets old.

anyway - sorry so long. end rant. ;)


Willie, I do not have an audio of that episode where you guys discuss Spencer Lee saying he was coming to Iowa.

The reason I thought there was a pro-Cael bias, is because in that episode, the success PSU had seemed to be attributed (by you, at least) to Cael "developing" the wrestlers, and proven by their bonus point production at ncaa, far outdistancing other teams.

That message to me at least, seemed to downplay the significance of starting with guys who are of such high talent right out of HS (i.e Zain). I happen to believe getting top 10 guys is EXTREMELY important. By Nomad's comments, it seems he is thinks so too. Pointing out that Cael has been getting plenty of them is simply factual.

When one looks at Cael's success at coaching at ISU, the results were good, but nothing comparable to at PSU. The greatest wrestler to come out of ISU in the last 10-15 years would be Jake Varner (2,2,1,1). Not suprisingly, he was a top 10 recruit, and an absolute monster coming out of HS. He had 6 falls in his 6 state matches, 5 of them in the first period. I believe during the summer before wrestling an official collegiate match, he beat ncaa champ Jake Herbert in a FS tournament.

The other ISU recruits were good, Reader may have been at or near top 10, but the rest of the ISU recruits were farther down in the rankings.... Gallick, Paulson bros, Fanthorp, Zabriske, Cyler, Backes, Mueller etc. So overall, his recruiting at ISU was good but not off the charts stellar....and with zero ncaa team titles during his time as ass't or head coach.

So,for one more time, then I'll leave it a rest... I don't know how Cael is doing it, but his recruiting of top ten guys over an extended period is unprecedented.

Last, Willie, no need to apologize for your long rant, and like many others here, I appreciate that you and CP actually come here and respond. Granted a lot of posts here go a bit overboard, but it's all about the passion we share for our team and sport.
 
Willie, I do not have an audio of that episode where you guys discuss Spencer Lee saying he was coming to Iowa.

The reason I thought there was a pro-Cael bias, is because in that episode, the success PSU had seemed to be attributed (by you, at least) to Cael "developing" the wrestlers, and proven by their bonus point production at ncaa, far outdistancing other teams.

That message to me at least, seemed to downplay the significance of starting with guys who are of such high talent right out of HS (i.e Zain). I happen to believe getting top 10 guys is EXTREMELY important. By Nomad's comments, it seems he is thinks so too. Pointing out that Cael has been getting plenty of them is simply factual.

When one looks at Cael's success at coaching at ISU, the results were good, but nothing comparable to at PSU. The greatest wrestler to come out of ISU in the last 10-15 years would be Jake Varner (2,2,1,1). Not suprisingly, he was a top 10 recruit, and an absolute monster coming out of HS. He had 6 falls in his 6 state matches, 5 of them in the first period. I believe during the summer before wrestling an official collegiate match, he beat ncaa champ Jake Herbert in a FS tournament.

The other ISU recruits were good, Reader may have been at or near top 10, but the rest of the ISU recruits were farther down in the rankings.... Gallick, Paulson bros, Fanthorp, Zabriske, Cyler, Backes, Mueller etc. So overall, his recruiting at ISU was good but not off the charts stellar....and with zero ncaa team titles during his time as ass't or head coach.

So,for one more time, then I'll leave it a rest... I don't know how Cael is doing it, but his recruiting of top ten guys over an extended period is unprecedented.

Last, Willie, no need to apologize for your long rant, and like many others here, I appreciate that you and CP actually come here and respond. Granted a lot of posts here go a bit overboard, but it's all about the passion we share for our team and sport.

Mueller and Sanderson were both ranked in the top 5, according to D1CW, Varner was 10 and Gallick was 13th.
 
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These questions are definitely not solely jealousy driven. It may be for some, but many should be wondering how it is being done. No team has consistently recruited this may blue chips year after year. I genuinely want to know he is doing it and would be just as interested in finding out how if MSU was somehow pulling it off.

Remember, I haven't said they have to be cheating. But, I would be surprised if they aren't working in some grey areas. I simply can't see how they are hauling in 8 top 30 recruits from this class when you have Nolf, Nickal and Nevills coming back for 2 more seasons. Hall and Joseph are coming back for 3 and Lee, Berge, Verkleeren and Manville are just starting their careers. That is 17 guys to spread money around without even considering ANY other guy in the room.

I am sorry, but if you don't see the need to ask the question you are either blind or too loyal to care.

Best post I have seen on this issue. In football at least FSU, USC, Ohio State and Michigan are getting some recruits that Alabama wants. I guess Carl is just smarter than any other coach in wrestling
 
These questions are definitely not solely jealousy driven. It may be for some, but many should be wondering how it is being done. No team has consistently recruited this may blue chips year after year. I genuinely want to know he is doing it and would be just as interested in finding out how if MSU was somehow pulling it off.

Remember, I haven't said they have to be cheating. But, I would be surprised if they aren't working in some grey areas. I simply can't see how they are hauling in 8 top 30 recruits from this class when you have Nolf, Nickal and Nevills coming back for 2 more seasons. Hall and Joseph are coming back for 3 and Lee, Berge, Verkleeren and Manville are just starting their careers. That is 17 guys to spread money around without even considering ANY other guy in the room.

I am sorry, but if you don't see the need to ask the question you are either blind or too loyal to care.
This is pretty much the only answer at this point. Always having enough money to go after whomever you want regardless of who is already on the roster raises an eyebrow. I know first hand that Iowa has lost guys because they simply don't have the money to offer them or have to make tough decisions with other recruits still on the board. I'm not going to accuse anyone of cheating, because I have no first hand knowledge how it is being done, but simply asking the question is perfectly acceptable. There are plenty of kids who will take a little less, and other kids that come from families that can help support the bill, but I highly doubt that every top kid PSU happens to recruit falls into one of those two categories.
 
Do you guys ask yourself why Tom Brands and every other coach out there are keeping silent and allowing Cael to work the system? If you guys know PSU is cheating the system then there is no doubt they know as well. In fact, they would know of a hell of a lot more than you do and know exactly what is being done to bring in so many top recruits. Hell, Tom and tan Tom even have witnesses in their rooms that could testify to what Cael is doing right?

Spencer Lee and Kyle Snyder, both heavily recruited by PSU, why aren't they talking? After their coaches get them in the room and find out how Cael is "paying" recruits.... why aren't they talking? Everyone knows their cheating, why isn't something being done to stop it? I have a serious question and would love to hear what you guys think. Do you feel all programs are cheating in some way so they all stay silent or do you feel they are blowing the whistle yet the NCAA doesn't care and refuse to take action? It has to be one of the two right? It has to be...
 
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Do you guys ask yourself why Tom Brands and every other coach out there are keeping silent and allowing Cael to work the system? If you guys know PSU is cheating the system then there is no doubt they know as well. In fact, they would know of a hell of a lot more than you do and know exactly what is being done to bring in so many top recruits. Hell, Tom and tan Tom even have witnesses in their rooms that could testify to what Cael is doing right?

Spencer Lee and Kyle Snyder, both heavily recruited by PSU, why aren't they talking? After their coaches get them in the room and find out how Cael is "paying" recruits.... why aren't they talking? Everyone knows their cheating, why isn't something being done to stop it? I have a serious question and would love to hear what you guys think. Do you feel all programs are cheating in some way so they all stay silent or do you feel they are blowing the whistle yet the NCAA doesn't care and refuse to take action? It has to be one of the two right? It has to be...
The NLWC has more money than any other club in the country and it isn't even close. If PSU is making side promises to recruits in order to get them to take less, which has been the claim by many, it could be a very tough decision to turn them in.

This is all hypothetical of course, but what happens if you turn Cael in with 15 witnesses and mountains of proof? The entire RTC/club structure as we know it could crumble. It's already hard for wrestlers to get paid, and what happens to the sport if these clubs affiliated with the universities come under fire? It would be a difficult decision to make as a coach, who wants to see these kids have a chance at getting paid to wrestle after college. It really isn't the craziest scenario to imagine. Hell, kids were getting paid 6 figures to attend schools for basketball, and it took the FBI getting involved for anything to be made public. As stated above, this is all hypothetical, and I have absolutely zero proof or knowledge of any impropriety.
 
Anything is possible I guess but I still feel kids take less to go to the school of their choice. And I think the parents either foot the bill or at the very least condone it. If the NLWC is that powerful, I wonder how in the hell Spencer Lee ended up at Iowa. Surely Iowa couldn't have outbid PSU could they? I mean, even if Iowa gave Lee a full scholarship, PSU could have offered that and so much more in the way of that slush fund you guys talk about. If they are that well funded and willing to cheat to get the guys they want, how is that they didn't get Lee? You're not going to tell me it's possible he took less to go to the school of his choice are you? Or is it more likely the HWC broke the bank to match or exceed what the NLWC could do for him?
 
Why doesn't the NCAA ask guys like Spencer Lee and Kyle Snyder how PSU is cheating? Hell, why isn't Tom Brands and Tom Ryan asking and taking that information to the NCAA themselves instead of allowing PSU to beat them down every year in the recruiting game? Should be simple enough right? Those top recruits that didn't choose Penn State should be more than willing to share what PSU was offering to "pay" them when they were being recruited by Cael. Or don't they care to lose out on team championships to a school that is cheating? How about Suriano. He sure seems to have a gripe with PSU. Why doesnt he bring them down a notch and let everyone know the real reason he went to PSU.

You're absolutely right. I mean, its not like the cover could be kept on a scandal for years or anything, right?
 
Anything is possible I guess but I still feel kids take less to go to the school of their choice. And I think the parents either foot the bill or at the very least condone it. If the NLWC is that powerful, I wonder how in the hell Spencer Lee ended up at Iowa. Surely Iowa couldn't have outbid PSU could they? I mean, even if Iowa gave Lee a full scholarship, PSU could have offered that and so much more in the way of that slush fund you guys talk about. If they are that well funded and willing to cheat to get the guys they want, how is that they didn't get Lee? You're not going to tell me it's possible he took less to go to the school of his choice are you? Or is it more likely the HWC broke the bank to match or exceed what the NLWC could do for him?
I do agree that kids are willing to take less to go to the school they want, and that parents will also help lessen the blow. I have stated this several times in the past. PSU has an absolutely loaded roster, and is bringing in 7 hammers while losing Zain, Suriano, and McCutcheon. It's becoming reasonable to ask the question. No different than seeing Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, and wonder how he was doing it. Dismissing the possibility as impossible is more ludicrous than asking the question.

Spencer Lee picks Iowa, while Teasdale, RBY, Suriano, and Teske all choose PSU after being heavily recruited by Iowa. With the recent history Iowa has had with the lighter guys, probably not the best example.
 
Anything is possible I guess but I still feel kids take less to go to the school of their choice. And I think the parents either foot the bill or at the very least condone it. If the NLWC is that powerful, I wonder how in the hell Spencer Lee ended up at Iowa. Surely Iowa couldn't have outbid PSU could they? I mean, even if Iowa gave Lee a full scholarship, PSU could have offered that and so much more in the way of that slush fund you guys talk about. If they are that well funded and willing to cheat to get the guys they want, how is that they didn't get Lee? You're not going to tell me it's possible he took less to go to the school of his choice are you? Or is it more likely the HWC broke the bank to match or exceed what the NLWC could do for him?
Maybe Lee thought he could be the best possible wrestler he could be at Iowa.
How many years before we figured out JoPa was covering up something?
 
I do agree that kids are willing to take less to go to the school they want, and that parents will also help lessen the blow. I have stated this several times in the past. PSU has an absolutely loaded roster, and is bringing in 7 hammers while losing Zain, Suriano, and McCutcheon. It's becoming reasonable to ask the question. No different than seeing Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, and wonder how he was doing it. Dismissing the possibility as impossible is more ludicrous than asking the question.

Spencer Lee picks Iowa, while Teasdale, RBY, Suriano, and Teske all choose PSU after being heavily recruited by Iowa. With the recent history Iowa has had with the lighter guys, probably not the best example.
I'm not dismissing the possibility. I just don't think it's happening is all. I have a hard time believing that Brands and every other program out there are keeping their mouths shut, thus condoning the cheating unless they are doing it themselves.
 
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I'm not dismissing the possibility. I just don't think it's happening is all. I have a hard time believing that Brands and every other program out there are keeping their mouths shut, thus condoning the cheating unless they are doing it themselves.
That is a perfectly reasonable take. I certainly don't know any details, and wouldn't take it as absolute fact if I did.
 
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I'm not dismissing the possibility. I just don't think it's happening is all. I have a hard time believing that Brands and every other program out there are keeping their mouths shut, thus condoning the cheating unless they are doing it themselves.

Why do you presume that Brands or other coaches either know or have any evidence that PSU is cheating? Most people here have admitted they have no clue at all if PSU is cheating. A few people have claimed they have inside information but I would take that with a massive grain of salt as it's an anonymous message board. I think most of us are just confused with how the math of PSU's recruiting/scholarships add up, and that leads to a natural speculation that they could be skirting the very vague bylaws somehow, either regarding NLWC pay after graduation, or camp pay, or other means. When PSU booster funding is millions of dollars ahead of other programs and they continue to get recruits as if there is no salary cap, it just leads to speculation.

Especially when there was that info about their tax statement having loads of expenses from camps, but no revenues or something ridiculous like that. (I don't recall the details).

There have been numerous cases of sports programs breaking the bylaws to gain recruiting advantages. To act like people are tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists for merely asking questions is ridiculous. I still strongly abide by innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't mean asking questions, investigations, and compliance audits should be off the table.
 
Anything is possible I guess but I still feel kids take less to go to the school of their choice. And I think the parents either foot the bill or at the very least condone it. If the NLWC is that powerful, I wonder how in the hell Spencer Lee ended up at Iowa. Surely Iowa couldn't have outbid PSU could they? I mean, even if Iowa gave Lee a full scholarship, PSU could have offered that and so much more in the way of that slush fund you guys talk about. If they are that well funded and willing to cheat to get the guys they want, how is that they didn't get Lee? You're not going to tell me it's possible he took less to go to the school of his choice are you? Or is it more likely the HWC broke the bank to match or exceed what the NLWC could do for him?
 
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They didn’t get Lee because he and his parents DO NOT believe in or condone what is being done there. cael trying to tell him he could not visit or contact any other schools or any offer would be revoked would have been laughed at. All the posters from psu come here defending from the outset. None of you really believe the gabage about all the parents being willing to foot a $150,000 bill just to be at psu. Btw, cael did offer, the Lee’s just weren’t buying.

As for blowing the cover off...some coaches and wrestlers do care about the sport of wrestling and also know how the NCAA will react this time to OTC’s on college campus’s.
So you're saying Spencer took less to go to the school of his choice.

I gotcha...
 
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They had expenses of $613k for camps on their 2015 tax statement. How much of that is going to athletes currently on their NCAA roster? How much are other schools expenses for camps? What does that $613k expenses consist of?

http://www.flowrestling.org/article...s-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club#.We1F22iPJPY
You're the one making accusations. So you tell me...

Edit that. I'm outta here. See you guys in a few weeks when then discussion is moved on to something else. Appreciate the good dialogue 1stplacehawk.
 
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They had expenses of $613k for camps on their 2015 tax statement. How much of that is going to athletes currently on their NCAA roster? How much are other schools expenses for camps? What does that $613k expenses consist of?

http://www.flowrestling.org/article...s-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club#.We1F22iPJPY

Digging further, around $400k of that camp expense was paid as compensation. So who is receiving that compensation? Is it Cael? Is it current student athletes? If so, how much are they being paid to work at a camp? How much are athletes paid at other schools?
 
Willie, I do not have an audio of that episode where you guys discuss Spencer Lee saying he was coming to Iowa.

The reason I thought there was a pro-Cael bias, is because in that episode, the success PSU had seemed to be attributed (by you, at least) to Cael "developing" the wrestlers, and proven by their bonus point production at ncaa, far outdistancing other teams.

That message to me at least, seemed to downplay the significance of starting with guys who are of such high talent right out of HS (i.e Zain).

Me saying Cael develops guys shouldn't be construed as "pro-Cael" and certainly not as 'bias'. Why is it bias to give an assessment that I believe someone is doing a good job?

as far as recruiting vs. developing - they aren't mutually exclusive. to win national team titles you have to do a lot of both. PSU (and tOSU) wouldn't have the success they are having without great recruiting. but they also wouldn't have it if they recruited great without bringing that talent along - which includes maintaining a good culture, weight management, lifting, technique, etc, etc., which I feel Cael, Tom, John Smith, the Brands, etc etc, all do very well.

in other words - i don't attribute PSU's success solely to Cael developing guys. other coaches can develop guys too. but I don't (and I don't know how anyone can) - attribute PSU's success solely on recruiting. Recruiting without leadership and coaching ability would not result in the success psu has had.
 
Me saying Cael develops guys shouldn't be construed as "pro-Cael" and certainly not as 'bias'. Why is it bias to give an assessment that I believe someone is doing a good job?

as far as recruiting vs. developing - they aren't mutually exclusive. to win national team titles you have to do a lot of both. PSU (and tOSU) wouldn't have the success they are having without great recruiting. but they also wouldn't have it if they recruited great without bringing that talent along - which includes maintaining a good culture, weight management, lifting, technique, etc, etc., which I feel Cael, Tom, John Smith, the Brands, etc etc, all do very well.

in other words - i don't attribute PSU's success solely to Cael developing guys. other coaches can develop guys too. but I don't (and I don't know how anyone can) - attribute PSU's success solely on recruiting. Recruiting without leadership and coaching ability would not result in the success psu has had.

All valid points. I think most here will say the Cael developing wrestlers opinion can't be formed right now due to the high level of recruiting.
 
Everything that smalls said in his last post is almost irrefutable. But let’s not act like we don’t have a body of work on Cael’s “development” as a coach prior to taking over at PSU at a premiere wrestling program in ISU. So, what changed? Did Cael have some sort of revolutionary moment as a coach that improved his “development?” Or, more logically, did the landscape of recruits change? Do the math. And this doesn’t deflect from the reality of PSU’s domination of college wrestling right now. It’s absolutely legitimate to question how they can attract/afford top 5/10 pfp wrestlers at every weight. What’s different at PSU? I’m not accusing but I think many on here are getting close to the truth.
 
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I'm going to add this, these damn 18 year old kids have no concept of money and the years of struggling to pay back student loans. They just don't. If they want to go to a certain school, and if mommy and daddy aren't rich, they have absolutely no problem signing on the dotted line because they want they want when they want it. I'm actually struggling with all this as we speak with my own kid and his choice of colleges. Telling the kid I paid back student loans for twenty years means nothing to him. A blank stare like "yeah... and your point is?" Lol
Hey, wth are you doing? You post bs crap all the time, now you come on here with a few posts I actually agree with. I don't like agreeing with anything you put on here, so stop.

Most kids have no concept of what these decisions cost them in the future. Wish I could go back and do a few things differently. I did manage to get my college paid for though. Kids, you want free college? Be amazing (sports), study, or go talk to a recruiter.
 
Me saying Cael develops guys shouldn't be construed as "pro-Cael" and certainly not as 'bias'. Why is it bias to give an assessment that I believe someone is doing a good job?

as far as recruiting vs. developing - they aren't mutually exclusive. to win national team titles you have to do a lot of both. PSU (and tOSU) wouldn't have the success they are having without great recruiting. but they also wouldn't have it if they recruited great without bringing that talent along - which includes maintaining a good culture, weight management, lifting, technique, etc, etc., which I feel Cael, Tom, John Smith, the Brands, etc etc, all do very well.

in other words - i don't attribute PSU's success solely to Cael developing guys. other coaches can develop guys too. but I don't (and I don't know how anyone can) - attribute PSU's success solely on recruiting. Recruiting without leadership and coaching ability would not result in the success psu has had.

Putting the bias issue completely aside as it really has no bearing here. This is a hawkeye forum and we should assume a bias on our parts. Likewise those who come here supporting other institutions should expect to incounter the same. However, I do have one question. When Flo viewed the NLWC’s tax return and saw there were a number of very questionable/curious entries, why was there no follow up? Either by looking further into them or at least a follow up comment. Was that because you weren’t interested and curious as a wrestling media outlet or was it because you didn’t want to know? Serious question.
 
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Putting the bias issue completely aside as it really has no bearing here. This is a hawkeye forum and we should assume a bias on our parts. Likewise those who come here supporting other institutions should expect to incounter the same.

that's weird and untrue. 1) you don't need to 'assume' bias. 2) i don't support other institutions.

[/QUOTE]
However, I do have one question. When Flo viewed the NLWC’s tax return and saw there were a number of very questionable/curious entries, why was there no follow up? Either by looking further into them or at least a follow up comment. Was that because you weren’t interested and curious as a wrestling media outlet or was it because you didn’t want to know? Serious question.[/QUOTE]

idk where there were 'very questionable' entries. i think what you can glean from it is that they have a lot of donors and funding and fund raising in place.

the tax returns were public record. i don't know how we would dig deeper short of hacking computers or funneling through trash cans.
 
[QUOTE="smalls103, post:

the tax returns were public record. i don't know how we would dig deeper short of hacking computers or funneling through trash cans.[/QUOTE]

And why haven't you done that yet? ;)
 
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I have not always been a huge fan of flo, and cancelled my account when Spencer Lee was moved to #2 on the big board. Full disclosure, I planned to cancel that month anyway. I like the fact that they will come on here and engage. I absolutely boycott intermat due to Foley, that guy is bias beyond belief. Flo is great for the sport and provides us with so much more content then ever. If they were gone tomorrow we would have plenty of people on here crying. I listen to both shows weekly and now have a yearly subscription. If you want to be in the know and watch multiple matches, you have too.

Is Flo bias, Yes! Everyone is to some extent. Do I think they protect PSU, nope. I think they have a little crush with what is going on there, but they call out their board just like they do this one. They are human and going to have some favorites. It would be bad for us if someone like Askren was on there often, but for the most part they do quite well.

Metcalf - he is the best 149er in the last 10. Pyles was way off and doing what he does sometimes and moving the bar, it went from career, to match to moment. Well Caldwell beat Metcalf this match so I take Caldwell at his best during this match....you think that was Metcalf at his best? Guy can't have a bad match? That is why you go over the body of the work, in matches and moments crazy things can happen and that is why the body of work is more important. Over the course of things Pyles moved the bar on how he picked guys and was the least consistent. Willie is more consistent then Pyles on most things.
 
They had expenses of $613k for camps on their 2015 tax statement. How much of that is going to athletes currently on their NCAA roster? How much are other schools expenses for camps? What does that $613k expenses consist of?

http://www.flowrestling.org/article...s-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club#.We1F22iPJPY
Do you've the HWC tax statement to compare? And be interesting to see how much more HWC spends in the next few years will all the money being donated.Iowa fans should be thanking Cael for all the money being raised in Iowa City now.It's funny how everyone knows there cheating but yet nobody knows Shit.There have been many kids who were being recruited heavily by Penn St who went elsewhere and not 1 of them have come forward with info on Cael cheating.With the scandals that hit the news daily in our country it's hard for me to believe everyone is keeping quiet for Cael.
 
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Gotcha so it took 1 of your own getting hired in the same state to get that going I thought It was Cael winning titles.It won't be long and Iowa St will be getting accused of cheating on these boards with zero proof.

Can you define 'won't be long'? You know so we can see when your prediction comes true and we can congratulate you on your accuracy. I am sure your premise is backed by plenty of factual evidence. Things such as spending more on compensation than revenue generated. Let me know when you can narrow your prediction down.
 
Gotcha so it took 1 of your own getting hired in the same state to get that going I thought It was Cael winning titles.It won't be long and Iowa St will be getting accused of cheating on these boards with zero proof.

That would be incorrect. It was the perceived notion that Metcalf was a coach in waiting and then he went to the OTC, then OTC to the Clones. That and Dresser stepping off the plane and getting a million dollar donation. It's one thing for PSU to have big money but its another altogether to see little bro raking in those donations. It got people going on here. I think people didn't understand how key the club is to winning.
 
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