Nice conclusion from your study #4. "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate."
For You Anti-Vaxxers...
- Thread starter NoleATL
- Start date
Now I'd like to hear your thorough explanation as to why the VSD can't be used for looking at vaccination rates in autistic patients.
Before you answer, I'd suggest watching this first:
When you base your research with a foreordained conclusion (vaccines CAN'T cause autism)
then why would you look at pre-autism vaccination rates? That would just be silly.
'Cept no studies have done that, and there are already dozens of studies listed in this thread which demonstrate the contrary. I'm sure nearly all of them are beyond your reading comprehension level, which is why we get silly Youtube videos, instead of actual science.
I'm not reading the whole thread, but I have to know...is the entire thing filled with as much crazy as the last 2-3 pages?
Oh, Hell yes!
Probably even MORE "crazy" than the previous 2 Anti-Vaxxer threads the Usual Suspects got Pwned in....
If you want to know how this thread has gone thus far, it can be summed up in one post. It's on page 2, post # 66.
I totally agree and I'm glad you pointed that out. I mean isn't it crazy that nobody wants to comment on the herd immunity article, or the recent Chinese studies that indicate the Hep B may be causing serious neurodevelopmental issues in our newborns? That it's perfectly ok to use completely faulty oral studies to prove injected aluminum is safe, despite science that proves injected aluminum has the ability to follow a completely different and much more "insidious" pathway (to the brain). Then someone thinks they can settle the science and slam the door on aluminum by using faulty mmr studies that don't even contain aluminum. Then nobody wants to explain why they can't use the VSD to do a study looking at vaccination rates of autistic patients prior to autism diagnosis despite it being done for a similar study, but after autism diagnosis. You're absolutely right, it's getting downright crazy up in here.
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A f’n lawyer looking to sue vaccine makers funded Wakefield but that NEVER enters your narrative. Over half a million that went straight into Wakefiled’s pocket so you can save me your “look who funded it” BULLSHIT. You ignore that and you ignore that he had a secret patent on a vaccine that he hoped would replace the MMR vaccine that YOU admit he didn’t discredit in his BS “study”...only in the slimy rhetoric he spewed afterward. And he’s the slime ball who put out Vaxxed so you can take that load of crap and stuff it.
Do NOT come on here preaching about funding as long as you but the total crap Wakefield is selling. It makes you look like a hypocritical idiot.
natural born is a homeopath and Nat is...well...Nat. You really don’t need to know anything else to judge their posts.
Just so everyone's on the same page, the govt. is putting plans in place to bring everyone including adults up to date on all recommended vaccines, and most certainly adding more vaccines (from the 300 in development) to it as they become available. Forced vaccination is on its way and plans are in place to move all non-medical exemptions off the table.
Now, let's all ask ourselves this honest question. Which is crazier?
1) That questions are simply being asked that question vaccine safety
or
2) That no reasonable answers to these questions exist, and much of the time these questions aren't even attempted to be answered.
Think about it.
I'd have to get you in touch with my daughter, she's the one with the degree in Microbiology and advanced degree in Genetics. She'd also be arguing vehemently against your points.
My degrees are in science, but a more "shocking" version (electronics).
Well let's hear it, everyone is invited to participate. No offense to your daughter, I'm sure she's a very smart person, probably smarter than I. But this incessant problem with not being able to answer these questions is rampant throughout internet, not just in this forum which leads me to believe that these questions simply can't be reasonably and honestly answered. I don't fault Joe, fred, or TH for not being able to reasonably answer the questions. I fault them for not being honest and reasonable in their replies. If they do attempt a reply, they are absolutely littered with ad-hominem attacks and to a lesser extent broken dead-end ideas that don't make sense. That gets us nowhere. If reasonable answers to these questions did indeed exist, then they would be no doubt made available with easy access for anyone to counter these "crazy" questions, especially given the climate and seriousness of this debate. Sadly, that isn't the case at all. The fact that these questions have not been answered should concern anyone, but for some strange reason it doesn't for some.
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I think your arguments explain why the number of people that are questioning the status quo continues to rise. (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/388756-poll-support-for-vaccines-falls)
The number of Americans who believe vaccinations are crucial to public health has fallen by 10 percent in the last 10 years, according to a new survey.
A poll for Research America found that 70 percent say vaccinations for diseases like measles and polio are “very important.” That number is down from the 80 percent in November of 2008 who said the vaccines are crucial.
But the thing you are completely ignoring is that, while maybe not 100% perfect with absolutely no side effect (they do happen, but are extremely rare), the alternative is far, far worse. If 999 out of 1000 people have zero issues with vaccines, and the 1 has a minor side effect, that is far, far better than 25 million people dying of measles, or polio, or smallpox, etc.
There are side effects for a very, very small percentage (falling in the autism spectrum isn't one of those) of people, but the benefits for humanity are incredible. I would go far enough to say that anyone who voluntarily, intentionally refuses vaccines for themselves or their kids should be charged with a crime.
And yes, I'll get with her on the science next time I see her...considering some of her research as a grad assistant was with vaccines. She has made the comment to a cousin of hers who is an anti-vaxxer, that people who don't should be charged. She actually had a discussion with our pediatrician about it at a wedding last summer. She explained the science to the Dr.
You might actually have a point with the first part of what you said if my argument was that vaccines are nothing but bad, and that people shouldn't get vaccinated. The basis of my argument is for informed consent and freedom of choice, stemming from the terrible safety science and dismal post marketing surveillance system associated with vaccines.
Let me ask you this. What is the reasoning behind your assertion that anyone who refuses vaccines should be charged with a crime?
Before you answer, I'd suggest watching this first just so we can be closer to being on the same page. 01:45 to 29:40:
I’m not reading this whole thread but My wife is a pharmacist and believes all anti-Vaxxers should also be charged as they are putting the public in danger.
I am one to think that you guys are terrorist and should be jailed or put on a secluded island just to try and prove your hypothesis of vaccines being bad.
I am a libertarian and hate the government as much as the next person but their one main job is to protect us. If you don’t see the difference on personal freedom and danger to society than may god help you and your offspring.
I am one to think that you guys are terrorist and should be jailed or put on a secluded island just to try and prove your hypothesis of vaccines being bad.
I am a libertarian and hate the government as much as the next person but their one main job is to protect us. If you don’t see the difference on personal freedom and danger to society than may god help you and your offspring.
LOL...you want to be taken seriously and you post shit like "US Health Agency's Child Death Panel". The one thing NO ONE is getting from the likes of you is informed.
And right there is a classic example of the hang-up in this debate. You see, I'm hoping for a reasonable counter to the ideas expressed in the content of what is actually being said, but what I actually get is a comment about the title. It's nothing but logical fallacy after logical fallacy and this (below), which gets us nowhere.
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There's nothing reasonable about someone who champions Wakefield while simultaneously accusing others of the very things Wakefield ABSOLUTELY DID. Someone with that kind of cognitive disconnect isn't worth talking to.And right there is a classic example of the hang-up in this debate. You see, I'm hoping for a reasonable counter to the ideas expressed in the content of what is actually being said, but what I actually get is a comment about the title. It's nothing but logical fallacy after logical fallacy and this (below), which gets us nowhere.
Actually, someone who can do that is a f'n idiot.
I feel like I'm watching a Roadrunner cartoon and the Acme bowling ball falls out of the sky and bounces multiple times off your head. If Wakefield is guilty of the things you say, you are only making my point. Mad amounts of cash is thrown around to forward their Science. It's corrupt. That's the point. I don't condone it. I abhor it. Funny how you will drop the hammers of hell on Wakefield, but, NOT Big Pharma, whom Wakefield cannot even minutely match in dollars dispensed. Not sure why you give them a free pass.
As for the movie, Vaxxed, let people decide. Were you in favor of book burning as well?
Odd....I feel like you're IN a RoadRunner cartoon, and all your anti-vaxxer "info" says "Acme" on the outside of the box....
Don't steal my lines.Odd....I feel like you're IN a RoadRunner cartoon, and all your anti-vaxxer "info" says "Acme" on the outside of the box....
Well here it is. This is proof that HHS is not doing their job with regard to vaccine safety. Pursuant to the 1986 Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, it clearly laid out that HHS was supposed to be doing this: http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...-title42-section300aa-27&num=0&edition=prelim
This was part of the deal. If vaccine manufacturers were going to be indemnified from lawsuits, then HHS HAD TO agree to the above task! So recently as a result of a lawsuit (linked below), HHS reluctantly was forced to disclose that they hadn't done damn thing: http://icandecide.org/government/ICAN-HHS-Stipulated-Order-July-2018.pdf
Congress didn't even report that it wasn't being done, which is equally troubling.
This is your government hard at work ensuring public health and safety for all.
For a full explanation of what this all means go to 1:22:20:
This was part of the deal. If vaccine manufacturers were going to be indemnified from lawsuits, then HHS HAD TO agree to the above task! So recently as a result of a lawsuit (linked below), HHS reluctantly was forced to disclose that they hadn't done damn thing: http://icandecide.org/government/ICAN-HHS-Stipulated-Order-July-2018.pdf
Congress didn't even report that it wasn't being done, which is equally troubling.
This is your government hard at work ensuring public health and safety for all.
For a full explanation of what this all means go to 1:22:20:
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Well then I guess we should move this point to this category.
This category is filling up nicely.
Since you typed this, I'd like to focus on it for a moment. Here we now have proof that the government is clearly not doing their "one main job to protect us" as indicated here:
That now demands a bit of a change to your equation, don't you think? Or, would you like to continue to contend that the government is still doing all it can to protect us? Since your wife is a pharmacist you shouldn't have any trouble answering these tough questions.
It's so cute how you think "Youtube videos" are "proof".
Is this a Millennial Thing, nowadays?
It's so cute that you've made the decision that written information is the only form of communication that can be correct. There's more in that post than the youtube vid, btw.
Generally speaking, it is not in-depth and detailed information. It is 'frosting', not 'cake'.
And, as has been noted time and again here, the "references" that most of your videos cite are hardly considered reputable and accurate. Send your shit to the AMA and other medical associations; post back their responses, along with the text of your letters. Let's see what they say to you.
This lack of faith in medicine and science can all be solved. I propose we let loose polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and hell bring back small pox. I'll let my vaccinations stand against the unvaccinated. They can let their healthy sanitation, clean living, use of crystals, and herbal remedies take care of any issues that they may have.
As for that last video, he wants to be able to sue vaccines to make the product better. If they removed thimerosal already and that was the causative agent for autism...what's doing it now?
As for that last video, he wants to be able to sue vaccines to make the product better. If they removed thimerosal already and that was the causative agent for autism...what's doing it now?
Really? It's funny you say that because the Highwire program actually sends links to the studies and other pertinent information they include in their programming through Facebook messaging or texting if you merely ask for it. Now, do you have any comment on the content of the text of my post, or are you going to focus on the other completely unimportant non-issue?
I've already advocated for this. Only make sure those unvaccinated carry 100% responsibility to those they infect who CANNOT be vaccinated. And, they have no health coverage for any condition related to any vaccinable disease they acquire. The rest of us won't pay for it. Pay your own way, and pay up to anyone you infect, with NO assets shieldable from responsibility.
Oh, and once you lose your house and everything else, you're also not eligible for any government welfare systems. You wanna live in the 14th-17th centuries, go for it.
Yet, amazingly, they don't push any of their "references" at the AMA for consideration.....
so odd....
Are you vaccinated for smallpox? Smallpox isn't on the schedule so it's a non-issue at this point.
I propose that we go back to something closer to the 80's schedule before more than 1 in 2 children had a chronic illness, 1 in 6 asthma, 1 in 36 ASD, 1 in 5 autoimmune disorder, etc, etc. and see what happens. That should take care of the infectious diseases on your list, and back to a time when people weren't dying in the streets. What do you think?
Well, thimerosal hasn't completely been removed. And, to answer your question aluminum is just one of the ingredients that has been focused on in this debate.
Yah the government sucks at doing a lot of things, this is not a shocker. I think they can do more in regards to this but it is a free country and they try there best with awareness campaigns and such. Best these professions can do is have health fairs, work with local, states, and the federal government to raise the awareness of certain vaccines. I mean one can go on YouTube and believe Jim Carey and Jenny McCarthy or you can believe an expert in the field. It’s your choice but the problem is, is that there is a bunch of uneducated people in regards to vaccinations and what they do.
I never contended that they are doing all it can to protect us. I believe we can focus more funds in this area through partnerships with local hospitals and non profits.
You might have a good point if there wasn't legit science, and many, many doctors and scientists speaking out against their safety.
