Being against theocracy doesn't imply elimination of all laws, Cletus.
France becomes first country to explicitly enshrine abortion rights in constitution
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
oooh so close... but not quite right.
Morality for me is educating kids on the pros and cons of sex. That it's not JUST a recreational activity and treating it as such has real world consequences much like drinking and driving. You might get away with it 100 times, but that 101'st time could result in the taking of an innocent life.
Morality for me is FREE medical care for expecting mothers. Taking the funding from planned parenthood and giving it adoptive parents.
I have more but that's a start.
Kewl
But that doesn't do much for the miscarriages women have, who need "abortion meds" to clear the dead embryo/fetus or need an actual abortion to prevent them from further harm.
And, yes, there are now examples of women who ended up needing a hysterectomy due to miscarrying, because no one in any surrounding hospital was qualified to perform a simple abortion.
Why the **** do you care at all? This is my biggest problem with conservatives they think they know what is best for everyone. If someone wants to have premarital sex that is their decision it is not your job to get involved. And to top it off they throw in a heaping pile of gaslighting and hypocrisy and say they are the party of small government.
You want to limit abortions? Educate people as best you can and make contraceptives as available as possible. If conservatives believed in those things I could get behind some of the "pro life" stuff. But nope they are adamantly against these things.
Nope. Joes Place favors federal government control of our lives. He favors whatever freedom that's "given" to us.
LMAO!!!
PREVENTING government from interfering with women's reproductive care is "government controlling your life".
You're fully brainwashed, bud.
I don't understand the level of cruelty that leads to demands that people who are fighting for a better existence be barred for life if they ever enter the US illegally.
To me one of the best things about many (most?) of these folks is that they want to be here so much that they will take great risks and suffer great hardship to realize that dream.
I wish more Americans felt that strongly.
You'd think that people who look at our hate-riddled, increasingly-dysfunctional culture would think twice before wanting to come here.
Look at the way we treat those who do come. Think of the separation of children - and don't you think that's a gift to pedophiles and sex traffickers? Consider the level of racism, xenophobia and even violence directed toward refugees.
How bad are the places they leave if they'd rather be here?
Consider how often it's the case that the reason those "shitholes" are so awful is because of the puppet governments we've installed and support, the death squads we've trained, the environmental degradation our corporations have inflicted, the natural resource wealth we've plundered, or the sanctions we've imposed.
Consider also the propaganda we've been spewing for decades telling these desperate people how wonderful we are, and how great is is to be an American. It's almost magical. And yet we wonder why people want to come here.
We need to clean up our act. And that will take a lot or work. Yet nobody talks about doing that work.
Look at the way we treat those who do come. Think of the separation of children - and don't you think that's a gift to pedophiles and sex traffickers? Consider the level of racism, xenophobia and even violence directed toward refugees.
How bad are the places they leave if they'd rather be here?
Consider how often it's the case that the reason those "shitholes" are so awful is because of the puppet governments we've installed and support, the death squads we've trained, the environmental degradation our corporations have inflicted, the natural resource wealth we've plundered, or the sanctions we've imposed.
Consider also the propaganda we've been spewing for decades telling these desperate people how wonderful we are, and how great is is to be an American. It's almost magical. And yet we wonder why people want to come here.
We need to clean up our act. And that will take a lot or work. Yet nobody talks about doing that work.
Having an abortion is one way to take responsibility.
Don't bitch about people needing to be responsible if you take away avenues to exercise responsibility.
No one has taken away the obvious avenue of raising and supporting the child,.. Now I understand that that is a difficult road,.. Perhaps something to be considered prior to any sexual engagement.
You've (again) sidestepped the common scenarios of abortions needed in the event of miscarriage.
There is no child to support; women need medical care, including physical abortion or 'abortion meds' to preserve their reproductive health in the event they DO want to try to have another kid.
At some point a fetus becomes a person. At that point it's not about "productive rights", but about protecting the life of an unborn child. I don't know when that point happens, but it does happen.
Because I don't view these post miscarriage procedures as abortions,.. The fetus is already dead or at the very least non-viable so I see this as nothing more than a necessary medical procedure, so have at it,.. Also by the way, I don't necessarily have a problem with abortion per se,.. I have a problem with being asked to financially support other peoples poor sexual decisions...
So?
We had a functional 3rd trimester policy that was completely feasible and functional. Fetuses prior to 28 weeks or so have fairly low odds w/o significant (expensive) interventional care - which many folks simply cannot afford.
Why not leave that decision up to them, instead of "more government intervention" here?
The laws that you support do.
And they are intentionally written in vague terms to make it impossible for care providers to make any such determination.
You posited that those for an abortion ban weren't being consistent as they want all babies born but don't want them to get the healthcare they deserve once they are born.
I am pro-life and am willing to give them the healthcare they need when they are born if we get an abortion ban. Inconsistent with your claim.
So I am asking you to be consistent, which you refuse to, that if we pass universal healthcare would you agree to ban abortion?
Because otherwise you are claiming to want the entire society to support on another's healthcare yet, you, are not willing to start with the unborn. So which is it?
I dont know why you cant answer a straight question ever. Except for you are still waiting for your talking points from the DNC perhaps.
My views on abortion are not based in a fatith. They are based in my fundamental belief that all human life is worthy of protection. Period.
So being pro-life does not presuppose one is for a theocracy. But you keep being you. Avoid the basic argument and divert to a subject you think you can win. 'Should the US be a theocracy?'' specifically.
I am not 'against these things'
I care because I have a near adult children and I simply believe that the sexual revolution launched in the 1970s has been a huge net negative for society.
Single parenthood
Increased divorce rates
Abortion moving from safe legal and rare to common place. So common some women have had more than 3.
I dont want to be in peopels bedrooms nor do I need to be. We just need a cultural shift back to times when you had sex with people you were willing to marry and follow thru on being a dad if that is hwat accidentally resulted from having sex.
Currently the rate of single motherhood is thru the roof for myriad reasons. I believe strongly that the changes that came in the 1970's have directly led to a failure of the war on poverty. Along with many others of course but this is certainly one of the players.
I don't support any particular laws in this category,.. I do support the decision to send this back to the states where local choices can be made...
Coming from the guy using the terms 'womens reproductive healthcare' rather than abortion. Ok. Bud.
Youre like the c*** holster for the DNC. Embarrassment.
You are not "pro life" when you require women dealing with miscarriages and risky pregnancies from being able to terminate those, to preserve their own health and well being. Far from it.
Except that states are now preventing their own citizens from leaving the state to seek care for necessary abortions.
And trying to prevent the US military from providing the same care to women and families within military ranks in those states.
You simply aren't paying attention.
Abortion care IS healthcare.
Miscarriages are very common, and abortion is THE safest way to terminate a problem pregnancy and preserve the reproductive health of the mother.
Apparently, not the life of the women dealing with problem pregnancies or non-viable fetuses (which have S-A node activity folks like you claim is a 'heartbeat' precluding access to an abortion).
AGAIN: Ireland eliminated their ban due to a woman carrying a non-viable fetus with a "heartbeat"; she died when she went septic because they would not perform an abortion on her non-viable fetus.
Ireland "gets it" here. You do not.
This shit will all get resolved over time,.. Politicians that act contrary to the will of their voters will ultimately be be pushed out of office,.. Voters who feel strongly enough that their state isn't moving quickly enough in the direction they want it to go will relocate,.. Give it time.
Thanks. The nation and US State charts are especially fun. A shame the nation chart only applies to Christians.
Church attendance - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Obviously it would be hard to collect numbers on atheists who attend church, but it would be interesting to see similar numbers for Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, etc.
It would also be interesting to see Christians split into Catholic and Protestant (or even finer divisions).
As an atheist, I naturally view those charts as measures of the level of institutionalized superstition. So any non-trivial percentage makes me sad. But obviously most folks disagree - even those who don't attend church weekly. Which makes me even sadder.
I have no objections to D and C's for non viable pregnancies.
Anecdote=/=data.
If the SA node produces blood flow would you concede that is heartbeat? Or do you have some other criteria for what counts as a heart? I mean, what would you call a human organ that rhythmically pumps blood?
Alright, let's play that game... I'll give you exemptions for life of the mother, miscarriage, rape, and incest (same thing to me), but I want all the rest... do we have a deal?
It takes into account the current state of immigration. Ilegals crossing the border with drugs and criminal frecords. As well as ill will.
We have to have all immigrants wait until they are approved to stem the tide of the above.
It is pragmatic to do so therefore. Taking into account the current reality on the ground.
You have no idea what my position is on anything unless I have directly expressed it. You do enjoy however making broad assumptions based on your biases though.
My specific background, were you to know it, specifically speaks to the contrary of the above.
Will they? That's a good principle, but does it work in a world where the folks in charge make us choose between leaders nobody likes very much?
Majorities of Americans - sometimes huge majorities - favor policies and programs we never get. Usually thanks to Big Oil, or the MIC, or Big Pharma, or Wall Street, or the gun lobbies, and so on - with relentless aid from corporate media.
You could alleviate that problem. I, for one, would be happy to hear your positions directly from you, rather than working to infer them.
