France becomes first country to explicitly enshrine abortion rights in constitution
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
....and how many women end up dead or with permanent and irreversible damage to their reproductive health in the meantime?
Sure I do.
You've posted it. Without really thinking through what the consequences are for other people.
No you won't.
Those laws are always written so ambiguously that care providers have no choice but to eliminate care, altogether.
It has already happened in many states.
It was in the gif picker when you make a post. I think it's just a combination of things a certain political grouping likes.
I can't speak for Joes but heartbeat isn't a rational criterion, so who cares if the node produces blood flow?
Miscarriages
Pre-eclampsia
Other high-risk conditions
Etc etc etc
The procedures to properly eliminate risk from a miscarriage are exactly the same as those used for "elective" abortions. And you and your buddies want to outlaw those procedures, entirely. And/or make them unavailable through threats and coercion of health providers.
The SA node does not "produce blood flow"
It is your heart's pacemaker; those cells start electrically signaling early on.
The heart does not formally pump blood for the baby until birth. It cannot, because the heart walls do not formally form into place until actual birth.
There is no "heartbeat" until birth, because the heart is not pumping blood and the heart valve don't function yet.
And no one is calling for that avenue to be taken away, either.
But you are calling for other avenues of responsibility to be taken away.
Using birth control is another way of taking responsibility.
Abortion is a form of birth control.
Banning abortion is an attack on taking responsibility.
Syllogisms are fun.
All I know about fetal heartbeats is what I've learned from watching TV dramas. When they say they detect a heartbeat, what are they talking about? Or is that just showbiz?
You have no idea who you are arguing with Joe.
How does the blood circulate within a fetus?
I have zero issues with birth control, but would view abortion as a very poor choice in that regard,... That being said, I have no desire to ban abortions and would generally support their availability,.. My problem lies in the area of me being asked to financially support the poor sexual choices made by others,.. Your problem, your solution, your bill.
No. Its a heartbeat. Joe says it isnt because you cant ' hear it' except you can. He is going to claim that becasue you cant hear the valves making noise like you can using a stethoscope in an adult it isnt a heartbeat. Except a heartbeat is defined a cycle of cardiac contraction. Not valvular heart sounds. You can 'hear' it via a doppler as soon as 9-10 weeks gestation externally. What you may have seen on TV. So when using the correct definition the cycle of the fetal myoacadium contracting producing blood flow which can be detected by doppler it is in fact a 'heartbeat'
Joe is speaking out of turn here so to speak. He speaks as if he has knowledge. Except his knowledge is flawed or based on what he has been told to think in this area.
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Oh, I thought you'd just jump in to make your abortion views clear. But since you are inviting questions, I'd like to hear where you stand on my top concern: Climate Change. Some questions I'd ask (but don't feel obligated) ....
- How seriously do you take it?
- How hard should we fight to address it?
- What would you do first individually and as a nation or planet-wide?
- What's your position on a carbon tax?
- Is this something you want government to handle, or do you think the market can handle it well enough or better?
So a woman with an ectopic pregnancy has to die because the embryo is a person?
Abortion can and does leave women unable have children. Need a better argument than that.
I could maybe go with Gabbert's position reduced to 3.5 months. Planned Parenthood funding should immediately be stopped, not because of the central idea, but where they came from and tactics. Might as well have Bayer/Monsanto saying glyphosate is harmless.
You know my thoughts or if you dont they are searchable. Ive posted them recently.
Ill help you.
2024 Sea Surface Temperature exceed previous records by wide margin
iowa.forums.rivals.com
So the other 95% of their services that they offer to women and families should be ended for low income and people in need? And it is well established that abortion services are not using the federal funds given to them, but are instead accounted for differently? You are okay in throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.
Should we end all farming in Iowa since some farmers pollute the water?
So is a "fetus" a blob? A stick? A rock? What is it? Does it have brain activity? Feel pain? Recognize voices?
I honestly thought you were smarter than going down that path.
If you need a pacemaker, or a blockage cleared, should we post-birth abort you using the same reasoning?
If you can't protect the "least of these" what can you stand up for? KF?
Yes, if you truly look into them, they are evil at the core. They make their money from 1 main source. Abortion is their main goal. Alternatives needed.
Sure. I'd rather live a really long time in perfect health. Sometimes I even do things in an attempt to not fall apart too soon. But I don't worry much about an afterlife, because I don't believe there is such a thing. Moreover, if it turns out I'm wrong about that, I definitely don't think the conventional Christian depictions are likely to be correct.
But here's a question I do worry about, that maybe you can answer:
When the rapture happens, Jerry Falwell says people will just disappear, leaving behind a pile of clothes.
Does that mean everybody is naked in Heaven?
It could be kind of embarrassing for a lot of us if we arrive in Heaven naked while everyone else there is wearing nice clothes.
I'm not talking about the laws, I'm talking hypothetically. Are those acceptable terms?
I think we all agree on that. Maybe not the "fetus" part but otherwise, yes. But when does that "becoming" happen? Is it at the point of conception or the point when the kid can keep his own room clean?
The best we can do is something in-between, I think. After birth - and sometimes a fair while after birth - has been the species norm, I believe. Moving that point a bit before birth as a margin of error makes sense to me.
Trying to say that some specific physiological feature or event is the definitive marker is a futile exercise. There's simply no good reason to elevate heartbeat, or electrical activity, or fingernails, or anything else over the other possible markers.
Setting the abortion limit to a realistic viability standard is a gift to the hard line conservatives. Why? Because if they are willing to invest in medical science, viability will move earlier and earlier in the pregnancy.
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The rapture is a version of how things go from a perspective. Sort of how a lot of Christians want to think they'll avoid a terrible death of themselves or a loved one. This theory was made popular by Hal Lindsey who sold books about it and lives in Rancho Palos Verdes with his Rolls Royce collection. Honest people can disagree about end times writing and if the concept even holds water. Jerry Jenkins further expanded on it. Sort of like people claiming that "God Protected" them from harm or got them somewhere safely when others randomly die.
I personally as a Christian believe in the Pan theory. It will all pan out in the end on way or another. A ww2 soldier I knew used to say God Protected him in some pretty difficult situations. He used to speak about it at meetings. Then a couple came up to him after speaking when they recently had their son KIA in Vietnam. After that he changed to "If I survive I will serve God". And he did. There is a difference in approach.
It all makes good conversation, but in the end, I try with failings to live my life as I think Jesus would have me live. The rest I don't worry about. My luck is that I'd probably hit a tree being raptured and drop fall back to earth!
I hope I don't have to see you naked btw!
This is just more of you forcing your morality on to others.
We will shed our mortal bodies and become spirits.
I was just reading this from the Council of Trent.
Year 1547: CANON XXXI.-If any one saith, that the justified sins when he performs good works with a view to an eternal recompense; let him be anathema.
It's a group of cells that pulse rhythmically, not a heartbeat.
The heartbeat "sound" is added by ultrasound companies so people can get a warm, fuzzy feeling from the electrical activity that is not a heartbeat.
Your heartbeat is created by valves closing during your heart pumping; fetal hearts do not pump blood until after birth.
I'm not interested in "hypotheticals".
Tell your buddies that banning things like IVF, because you "feel" like an embryo is a full-fledged person, has actual consequences for people.
Just like banning abortion procedures that are used for miscarriages, and medicines that have other uses
From the placenta. Via the blood circulation provided by the mother.
HINT: It is WHY you have a bellybutton.
How do YOU think it circulates, Cletus?
No; you cannot "hear" it
The sound is created after heart valves form and function.
The S-A node makes no sound, Cletus.
Clearly, I DO know who I'm arguing with. An idiot who is functionally illiterate when it comes to biology.
No; a heartbeat is a sound you hear thru your stethoscope, which is created by valves closing.
The "fetal heartbeat" you refer to has no sound at all. It is an electrical signal, which becomes the pacing function for a fully formed heart.
You could Google this, if you wanted to learn something.
How much government money does Planned Parenthood receive?
Over 40% of Planned Parenthood revenue comes from government reimbursements and grants.
usafacts.org
Exceedingly rarely.
Complications from miscarriage, not properly addressed, will do so far more commonly.
