FRL last 20 min

[Dagboi]

None of this would have gotten to this point if Bael hadn't talked some numbnuts Sugar Daddy into juicing $5 million into their program in one shot. They have so much damn money they don't know what else to do with it. They're trying to buy titles. Well, not trying....doing.

A reasonable amount of this helps keep wrestlers afloat after their NCAA eligibility ends, and is good for wrestling and wrestlers.....an extreme distortion of the concept moves past that into a wildly disproportionate recruiting advantage. Which is just no damn f***.

 

[Knight563]

Actually don’t disagree with ya Left/Right...Id rather the NCAA say these “actions” are fine and the Hawks go out and replicate the same behavior. Fortunately and unfortunately TnT say they “play by the roles” and only use 9.9.

If they get the ok from the NCAA then let’s use the same funds and continue to build the HWC.

 

[Fan In Black]

Why is everyone so concerned with what people are doing with their money? If someone wants to give it to an RTC or a athletic department, let them. This sport is so tough and now that someone comes along and says, "hey, I know it is brutal and you do it for the love of the sport and I am willing to give you some money after you graduate to continue doing it. The only string is you have to stay and work out at this place which will benefit a school I love." What is the problem?

Sure, it makes it harder on the little guy, but unfortunately, that is life. Let this play out and let those who have a chance, reap the benefits of it. Maybe it gives PSU and tOSU and the Hawks an edge (If it was not for the HWC, the Hawks would not be a top 5 team). Maybe PSU and tOSU have more resources now and they are winning as a result. It does not seem illegal and I know it sucks when your team can't be on top because the other teams have more money, but lets not do this the socialist way - Make everyone equally poor. All we need is more red tape and rules and BS. No one is being abused or lied to or cheated, so why do we have to worry about it?

Do you feel that way about the NCAA leveling the playing field for all of college athletics? Honest question.

 

[vhsalum]

I'd like to see Tom follow up on his interview where he said we "follow the rules."

 

[rossel 33]

PSU's success has many wondering how it's done.

Two theories are put forth:

Cael gets a seemingly endless haul of top ten recruits, far surpassing all other schools, by making use of sleazy and opaque finances.

Cael is truely a master at developing wrestlers.

hmmmm....the winds are starting to change direction

 

[MVPFAN]

Why is everyone so concerned with what people are doing with their money? If someone wants to give it to an RTC or a athletic department, let them. This sport is so tough and now that someone comes along and says, "hey, I know it is brutal and you do it for the love of the sport and I am willing to give you some money after you graduate to continue doing it. The only string is you have to stay and work out at this place which will benefit a school I love." What is the problem?

Sure, it makes it harder on the little guy, but unfortunately, that is life. Let this play out and let those who have a chance, reap the benefits of it. Maybe it gives PSU and tOSU and the Hawks an edge (If it was not for the HWC, the Hawks would not be a top 5 team). Maybe PSU and tOSU have more resources now and they are winning as a result. It does not seem illegal and I know it sucks when your team can't be on top because the other teams have more money, but lets not do this the socialist way - Make everyone equally poor. All we need is more red tape and rules and BS. No one is being abused or lied to or cheated, so why do we have to worry about it?

No one cares if people donate their money to an RTC or school. No one cares if athletes are given stipend to compete for a club. Giving a stipend to cover basic expenses is not the same as paying off student debt to circumvent NCAA scholly rules. Your second paragraph seems like an advertisement for cheating. Why do you think there are salary caps? Because without the teams with all the $$$ would have all the best players. You are saying why even have limits on scholarships, just let each school have as many as they can afford to pay for. The sport is supposed to be about who can recruit and train the best team within the same rules not about the two or three wealthiest programs hoarding all the talent. The size of a school's checkbook should not be the determining factor is who has the best team.

 

[Novakht]

<Isn't the money that was recently donated to the HWC going to fund a new facility? If so that's gonna benefit the university>

No money donated to the club goes toward the new facility--it all goes back to to coaching ( Mark Perry Salary) or athlete stipends/travel/tourney entry fees etc.

Mr. Bob Nicolls was kind enough to donate one million dollars toward the new facility -- and he also donated a substantial amount to the HWC.

Two separate transactions -- HWC is completely separate from University.

 

[vhsalum]

Why is everyone so concerned with what people are doing with their money? If someone wants to give it to an RTC or a athletic department, let them. This sport is so tough and now that someone comes along and says, "hey, I know it is brutal and you do it for the love of the sport and I am willing to give you some money after you graduate to continue doing it. The only string is you have to stay and work out at this place which will benefit a school I love." What is the problem?

Sure, it makes it harder on the little guy, but unfortunately, that is life. Let this play out and let those who have a chance, reap the benefits of it. Maybe it gives PSU and tOSU and the Hawks an edge (If it was not for the HWC, the Hawks would not be a top 5 team). Maybe PSU and tOSU have more resources now and they are winning as a result. It does not seem illegal and I know it sucks when your team can't be on top because the other teams have more money, but lets not do this the socialist way - Make everyone equally poor. All we need is more red tape and rules and BS. No one is being abused or lied to or cheated, so why do we have to worry about it?

Because this is America. We hold value to sports being fair. Our moral fiber when it concerns athletics is pretty ingrained. So while I agree with you personally, we will always be a nation that shuns cheaters.

Let me say, I am for athletes being able to be paid commensurate to their worth. For wrestlers at a school like penn state, or a football player at Alabama, I believe they should have the ability to use their own likeness to receive cash or reward incentives. Which, if college coaches were smart, they would be the ones championing that right. If the NCAA didn't have rules to enforce and the principles of capitalism applied to NCAA athletes, it would save all member schools a lot of headaches.

 

[lookleft goright]

Do you feel that way about the NCAA leveling the playing field for all of college athletics? Honest question.

There are arguments that college athletes should get paid. I say if you can get someone to pay you fine, but it should not be the burden of the school to do it. We live in a supposedly free market. If someone wants to give Joe Blow some money to play a sport let him do it. The school can only give the allowed number of scholarships or whatever. Now if someone promises money and does not deliver, then that is lying and he should be punished however the law sees fit.
I guess, I am saying, - lets get off our high horse and quit trying to tell people what to do with their money and why this is legal and this is not. Sleazy coaches and people do not last long and in this age of social media, things get figured out quickly. It sounds like there is a way to get extra money into the hands of wrestlers and PSU has the money to do it and so does tOSU and the HWC may well be in that group soon. Let them do it.

 

[rossel 33]

Here's the video link for those interested:


At 13:10 Willie jumps in and says that they're starting to get incrementally more data points and coaches approaching them and saying that this type of stuff is occurring. He follows by saying that the difficulty as a journalist on this is that they keep hearing more things, and it sounds like a situation with where there is smoke there is fire, but no one is going on record and coming out with hard evidence.

Did Willie talk about how difficult it was to be a good journalist while still being a PSU fan?

 

[MVPFAN]

Actually don’t disagree with ya Left/Right...Id rather the NCAA say these “actions” are fine and the Hawks go out and replicate the same behavior. Fortunately and unfortunately TnT say they “play by the roles” and only use 9.9.

If they get the ok from the NCAA then let’s use the same funds and continue to build the HWC.

Even we tried to play the same game we don't nor likely would ever have the same $$$ resources that some other schools have.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Actually don’t disagree with ya Left/Right...Id rather the NCAA say these “actions” are fine and the Hawks go out and replicate the same behavior. Fortunately and unfortunately TnT say they “play by the roles” and only use 9.9.

If they get the ok from the NCAA then let’s use the same funds and continue to build the HWC.

There is a fundamental reason we have scholarship limits in NCAA to begin with and it's to maintain a fair competitive advantage for each school. By eliminating the scholarship limitation through outside funding, you are allowing schools to buy championships effectively.

You say, it should just be allowed and the Hawks should just go out and replicate the same behavior. PSU had a recent donor drop millions into the NLWC. They have many times the funding of the next closest program. The Hawks are better off than most schools at acquiring funding, but college sports shouldn't be a funding arms race.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

There are arguments that college athletes should get paid. I say if you can get someone to pay you fine, but it should not be the burden of the school to do it. We live in a supposedly free market. If someone wants to give Joe Blow some money to play a sport let him do it. The school can only give the allowed number of scholarships or whatever. Now if someone promises money and does not deliver, then that is lying and he should be punished however the law sees fit.
I guess, I am saying, - lets get off our high horse and quit trying to tell people what to do with their money and why this is legal and this is not. Sleazy coaches and people do not last long and in this age of social media, things get figured out quickly. It sounds like there is a way to get extra money into the hands of wrestlers and PSU has the money to do it and so does tOSU and the HWC may well be in that group soon. Let them do it.

You are very misinformed about how NCAA regulation works. It is absolutely not a free market. Outside benefits or funding to student athletes is a violation with harsh consequences. Many football and basketball programs have suffered these consequences. Look at OSU missing out on a bowl game because of it for instance.

Football programs have had consequences for athletes receiving free tattoos ffs. If you want to make an argument that private funding should be allowed to NCAA athletes, that's fine, but this isn't the place for it. That change isn't going to occur in the wrestling community. This is a much bigger topic than wrestling.

 

[Blackcat97]

 

[Dagboi]

<squints eyes, cocks head>....."looks like about 5 million straws from where I'm sitting."

 

[whejoe]

Just a couple of observations. When Spencer Lee committed to Iowa, Tom Brands said in an interview that they would never lose a guy because of money. He definitely changed his tune in a recent interview, and I think we know why. This was huge for CP and Willie to talk about this as they are likely to burn some bridges with these coaches. CP and Willie know who the cheaters are, so I give them props.

 

[4girlsanddad]

Weird. This thread has been up for over three hours, and not a single PSU fan to pipe in yet.

How IRONIC!!!

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

In a post that was largely brushed over here on HR a month ago Mike Tognetti said that Fix's parents told him that what's being discussed here was offered to Fix by PSU. Coming from a known troll I won't vouch for validity but he's not anonymous and that would be a pretty bold lie to tell on the Fixes while continuing to lurk around the program.
Started here on page 3 and Tognetti posts on page 12:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/tea-leaves-say-teske-to-psu.203491/page-3#post-4658918

Progression that led to Tognetti post:

I'm starting to have a hard time believing how many recruits there are who turn down full rides at other schools, to go to PSU for a discount. Money is an important factor for most kids and families when deciding which college to go to.

How is it, that all of the top wrestlers at PSU magically don't care about money? I don't buy it.

Because they are promised club $ after graduation to pay off there student loans.

Don't you guys get tired of this stuff? Really, link one shred of proof.

Nitt fan, hate to tell you but he is 100% right. They offered Fix the same deal. Heard it from his parents.

 

[lookleft goright]

You are very misinformed about how NCAA regulation works. It is absolutely not a free market. Outside benefits or funding to student athletes is a violation with harsh consequences. Many football and basketball programs have suffered these consequences. Look at OSU missing out on a bowl game because of it for instance.

Football programs have had consequences for athletes receiving free tattoos ffs. If you want to make an argument that private funding should be allowed to NCAA athletes, that's fine, but this isn't the place for it. That change isn't going to occur in the wrestling community. This is a much bigger topic than wrestling.

I am not saying NCAA athletics is a free market. I am saying the USA is supposedly a free market. When the Hawks were on top, everyone tried to find a way to beat them. Now we have RTCs. Eventually those will be replaced as people and teams try to find a way to beat PSU and tOSU. It will happen. I am just against saying to the kids -"hey no money for you, just administrators and ADs and presidents of colleges can get money."

What or who is being hurt? Kids get some college paid for while devoting themselves to a sport with little or no financial gain. So what? Let people do what they want to do with their money as long as no one is being hurt.

 

[The Vak]

You are very misinformed about how NCAA regulation works. It is absolutely not a free market. Outside benefits or funding to student athletes is a violation with harsh consequences. Many football and basketball programs have suffered these consequences. Look at OSU missing out on a bowl game because of it for instance.

Football programs have had consequences for athletes receiving free tattoos ffs. If you want to make an argument that private funding should be allowed to NCAA athletes, that's fine, but this isn't the place for it. That change isn't going to occur in the wrestling community. This is a much bigger topic than wrestling.

Pretty sure what he's saying is that the country itself is founded on the idea of a (mostly) free market, so why are NCAA athletes exempted from these benefits.

 

[vhsalum]

In a post that was largely brushed over here on HR a month ago Mike Tognetti said that Fix's parents told him that what's being discussed here was offered to Fix by PSU. Coming from a known troll I won't vouch for validity but he's not anonymous and that would be a pretty bold lie to tell on the Fixes while continuing to lurk around the program.
Started here on page 3 and Tognetti posts on page 12:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/tea-leaves-say-teske-to-psu.203491/page-3#post-4658918

Progression that led to Tognetti post:

Dude. I could not believe that little nugget got glossed over. Tognetti is a known troll, but he does use his real name.

 

[Lattner]

Weird. This thread has been up for over three hours, and not a single PSU fan to pipe in yet.

How IRONIC!!!

Man, the never ending wailing and crying is a thing of beauty to us.
Don't stop now guys!

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I am not saying NCAA athletics is a free market. I am saying the USA is supposedly a free market. When the Hawks were on top, everyone tried to find a way to beat them. Now we have RTCs. Eventually those will be replaced as people and teams try to find a way to beat PSU and tOSU. It will happen. I am just against saying to the kids -"hey no money for you, just administrators and ADs and presidents of colleges can get money."

What or who is being hurt? Kids get some college paid for while devoting themselves to a sport with little or no financial gain. So what? Let people do what they want to do with their money as long as no one is being hurt.

As I said, that is an entirely different discussion and the NCAA certainly isn't going to change their position on that because of what's going on in the sport of wrestling.

The fact is the NCAA has bylaws to prevent outside benefits or funding going to student athletes beyond their scholarships. There is speculation that those bylaws are currently being manipulated, violated, or abused through loopholes to give teams a recruiting advantage.

You can post all day about wanting a free market and wanting athletes to be paid. But it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Jaybird319]

P$U fans are to busy propping up each other beliefs in Cael righteousness. Seriously funning how they are sticking to their guns on this one

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Pretty sure what he's saying is that the country itself is founded on the idea of a (mostly) free market, so why are NCAA athletes exempted from these benefits.

There is an argument to be made for that, but it's not going to change through the sport of wrestling. Go take that up with the football/basketball heads.

 

[1stplacehawk]

If there are multiple programs doing this you can come to one of two conclusions:
1. Penn State is so much better at everything they do that they are winning despite other programs cheating.
2. The program with the most money is using their resources to influence recruits.

I'll let you decide which one you choose to believe.

 

[edquinn06]

In a post that was largely brushed over here on HR a month ago Mike Tognetti said that Fix's parents told him that what's being discussed here was offered to Fix by PSU. Coming from a known troll I won't vouch for validity but he's not anonymous and that would be a pretty bold lie to tell on the Fixes while continuing to lurk around the program.
Started here on page 3 and Tognetti posts on page 12:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/tea-leaves-say-teske-to-psu.203491/page-3#post-4658918

Progression that led to Tognetti post:

I think the # said was 60k a year after graduation to help pay off student loans as long as he competed with the NLWC. Of course you have to take Carl at his word that the $ will be given after graduation.

but again its message board talk...

 

[IAChief32]

What or who is being hurt? Kids get some college paid for while devoting themselves to a sport with little or no financial gain. So what? Let people do what they want to do with their money as long as no one is being hurt.

You are having a philosophical question in the land of "what should be" vs reality. The NCAA are hammers and if you are asking "what will it hurt?" I say the whole sport of wrestling....and badly.

 

[LumbeeIndian]

In a post that was largely brushed over here on HR a month ago Mike Tognetti said that Fix's parents told him that what's being discussed here was offered to Fix by PSU. Coming from a known troll I won't vouch for validity but he's not anonymous and that would be a pretty bold lie to tell on the Fixes while continuing to lurk around the program.
Started here on page 3 and Tognetti posts on page 12:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/tea-leaves-say-teske-to-psu.203491/page-3#post-4658918

Progression that led to Tognetti post:

Is Tognetti the guy who was to post a pic of himself with Coach Smith because he lost a bet? Has he ever come through on that? If not, I’ll say he’s no longer lurking around the program nor the Fixs.

 

[Cornstate]

I am not well connected or in the know on any of the details of this subject, but I will throw out there that I recently had a conversation with someone that is extremely well connected and credible in the wrestling world, and was told that PSU is forgiving student loans through the NLWC after graduation. This gives them the ability to offer much smaller scholarships to athletes, thus providing more room to gather high end talent.
Note: This was over beers and there was no specifics, but it was definitely not a theory.

 

[west2east]

And this would not fix the loop hole because if the club was down the street they could still do the same thing they have been and the NCAA would have to rely on proof of the additional payments being supplied somehow.

That's not gonna help with recruiting like it does now if they can't train together daily

 

[Dragonross]

Does anyone think there are other schools cheating besides psu?

 

[DonHawkeye]

Does anyone think there are other schools cheating besides psu?

I have not heard money funny business stories from tOSU but from the other things I have heard them doing I would be surprised if they were not leveraging this.

 

[The Vak]

Does anyone think there are other schools cheating besides psu?

Yes.

 

[B1S3K3SC]

Does anyone think there are other schools cheating besides psu?

Yes.

Uh, yes... And this isn't a new concept. These type of things have been going on for years with clubs...

 

[whejoe]

@fbi

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Does anyone think there are other schools cheating besides psu?

No, at least not to this extent. I believe others may be trying to emulate these type of offers after learning of what PSU is doing, but it's my personal opinion that PSU has taken this main stream as a quid pro quo and now that it's not just HR that's talking about it, it's only a matter of time before the story breaks. And since I can count ONE PSU poster on this thread that is usually overrun with them, I think they know it's coming too.

 

[DonHawkeye]

I may have to loan CP and Willie my tin foil hat.

 

[rivalhawks]

I think the # said was 60k a year after graduation to help pay off student loans as long as he competed with the NLWC. Of course you have to take Carl at his word that the $ will be given after graduation.

but again its message board talk...

So does the money go straight from the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club to Sally Mae circumventing the tax burden of the athletes or do they pay the athletes directly who in turn pay off their own loans? I assume non profits have pretty stringent rules on finances with the IRS?

Also misspelling Cael Sanderson name over the years has kept him under the radar and off google with all these allegations.

@caelsanderson

 

[Neo_Hawk]

And in case you are a moron like me and decide to check BWI to see what they're up to since none of them are here. Don't waste your time reading They all are trying to convince each other that this can't be happening because XX wrestler was only in the NLWC for 2 years or 1 year but what they fail to recognize is that it's not the length of time, it's the per hour rate. How much is a PSU wrestler making to work a camp per hour compared to an equal wrestler from a different school? How much per year is that NLWC member making vs others in other RTC programs.

They try and wrap it up real nice, but the records are out there somewhere. How much should a college student make for working a camp? $10 per hour, $20 per hour, $200 per hour? What does and RTC member make per year? $10k, $25k, $80k? This is how it's done.