Yep, I'm not sure why so many on this board were so high on him. He's never impressed me. He's unathletic and not physical. Yes he has size, but that's about it. I'd rather see PMac start instead, but I'm guessing Pemsl takes his spot eventually.
FWIW...MY TAKE ON GAME 1
- Thread starter kcgolfer
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Yep, I'm not sure why so many on this board were so high on him. He's never impressed me. He's unathletic and not physical. Yes he has size, but that's about it. I'd rather see PMac start instead, but I'm guessing Pemsl takes his spot eventually.
McCaffrey played the 4 last night, so did Weiskamp. This isn't the 90's anymore, people aren't tied to one position. It's all about matchups.
I agree with most posts here, except the ones that are giving up on Nunge. I was hoping for more too, but let's see.
I think most of us underestimate how disorienting it is to play in an arena full of fans after playing in the practice gym for over a year. Add to that all the new guys on the team and it should be expected that some of the guys look a little lost at times.
Anxious to see Pemsl. It seems like he's been on the team forever but it also seems like we've never really seen what he can do over the course of a season.
Many, even most, have been concerned that PMac would be too frail to play in the B1G. Well, I'm still concerned - he looks 15 out there.
This team really needs JBo.
I think most of us underestimate how disorienting it is to play in an arena full of fans after playing in the practice gym for over a year. Add to that all the new guys on the team and it should be expected that some of the guys look a little lost at times.
Anxious to see Pemsl. It seems like he's been on the team forever but it also seems like we've never really seen what he can do over the course of a season.
Many, even most, have been concerned that PMac would be too frail to play in the B1G. Well, I'm still concerned - he looks 15 out there.
This team really needs JBo.
Good post.
Really like Fredrick. Seems to get a deflection, loose ball, rebound others don't (especially C Mac).
P Mac is barely a upgrade from Lil Lic. Your comments on C Mac were kind.
Not sure about JB. We're headed nowhere this year but could really be good next.
We'll need Joe T to slow down other good fast guards if the zone doesn't.
“P Mac is barely an upgrade From Lil Lic” . No need to read any further, do we really have fans this clueless?
The ball movement last night was much better than last year. CJ is going to be an overall upgrade from Moss. Garza looks like a senior. If we find consistent scoring from one more player outside of JW and LG, we’ll be a top half big ten team. Perhaps that’s JB.
Joe T as good as advertised should be a great 4 year contributor. Pat M looked great and seemed to really gel with Joe T. Joe W. looked like a stud. He was hunting shots with the confidence of JBo. Garza continues to improve. Nunge and CJF didnt get going but it was against a small quick team where Iowa pounded the ball to Garza. JBo looked great and I think he plays a full season unless he has a setback. A very encouraging W.
Yeah, just an awful post. Imagine waking up first thing this morning with those thoughts.
Probably should expand this to saying as far as helping us win a game vs a Big 10 team. He will give us very little. 2-7 from the field vs a bad team won't help us vs the upper Big 10 teams.
We do unfortunately or it’s just blind hatred because coaches kids. I think he also said that Connor doesn’t deflect balls or get loose balls which he did as much as anyone last night.
Well 3 of his misses were just a tad long on threes, they weren’t right or left, which is a good sign. Another miss was that crazy layup. He will be a very good player for us. This year, he should provide those good minutes to sub for joe, who should be playing 32 a game.
Mr Reality here to weigh in with my thoughts. The koolaid brigade will dislike most of what I have to say but my approach is to tell you what I saw while being there live and what I think this season holds.
First, one of the pre-season predictors had us picked to finish 9th in the B1G and although I do not have a great feel for the league overall this year I think that is very fair based on what I witnessed when you look at the personnel strengths & short comings from a macro, objective view. This team will struggle mightily at times this year and I see a few losing streaks and maybe a few blow outs coming against the strongest competition. I think the finish range in the B1G is plus or minus 2 which means 7th best case, 11th worst case. If Fran gets this team to 7th or better he’s done a remarkable job.m
The DePaul game Monday is big for this team!
Team Evaluation
Strengths
Passing
Shooting
Chemistry
Challenges
Rebounding
Defense
S-S-S - Shot Creation, Stagnation (movement off the ball), Soft
Player Evaluation
Joe W
Great, great ball player who is absolutely head and shoulders above anyone else on this roster. Does everything at both ends at a very high level. High IQ, very unselfish too. Let’s enjoy him because the odds are this season will be his last for good reason. He may be quiet or have to work exceedingly hard some nights to get the offensive production the team needs because we don’t have enough around him to keep opponents from scheming specifically to slow him. I could not be more impressed with him though.
JBO
He really looks the part as a veteran and excellent player. You can tell though he’s rusty and may not be fully recovered. I’m not sure if he will play past the cut-off or not but if he does not continue on OR does play but he struggles to get back all the way physically this team will suffer without him and I’d think we will be closer to 11th in the B1G. He can flat out win games with his shooting. Have thoroughly enjoyed his career.
Garza
Extremely skilled, tremendous competitor that gets the most out of what he has athletically. If everyone on this roster played as hard as him and with the tenacity he brings we’d exceed our prediction. You can tell he’s battle tested and he’s an excellent teammate. The only thing I saw last night was he did not pass as much out of the post if at all. The ball went in and he was going to shoot it. This was likely due to the opponent and the match up but he got away with some things he may not when the competition ramps up and he turned the ball over trying to do too much at times. Remember to get others involved, not rack up stats.
Those first 3 are the B1G 3 by far and there’s a line of demarcation after ...
Patrick
I really like the looks of Patrick. He’s likely not going to be a great shooter from distance especially early in his career but I do think he will knock down some in time and he’s not afraid to take some when open which is good. What I like about his game is he’s long and can do a little bit of everything. Kind of a more skilled version of Baer if that makes sense. He will get stronger in time but he can help us now and will. Thumbs up from me on him.
Joe T
Wow do I like his potential and he brings something we have not had in a long time. He’s quick, a penetrator and has a ‘junkyard’ dog mentally. Reminds me of mentality wise of one of the most underrated players of the Fran era in Sapp. Having said this he’s raw too and will have nights where the mistakes are many and fans will want him tossed off the roster as he learns and improves. This will be the most interesting player to see what Fran does with because I think he needs to play a large number of minutes this season to move that learning curve along through the good and bad. Will Fran be patient? He has dribble drive and breakdown ability we rarely have along with the ability to play in your face defense at the point.
CJ
In him we have a solid to good ball player. I thought he struggled more last night offensively to find shots in the offense against better competition & athleticism. I think he will struggle more this season with better competition coming as he learns. He reminds me very much of a poor mans Joe W. Not a great athlete but not a poor athlete either - kind of in between. I don’t think he’ll ever make it to Joe’s level but he’s going to improve with experience and definitely will help us. Willingness to play D is a plus and seems like a great, team oriented kid too. A keeper.
Bakari
You can see he has some holes in his game and despite hitting a 3, I’m not sure he’s going to provide much scoring. What’s intriguing to me though is his length, quickness and speed. If committed, he could be a guy we play at times, especially when paired with Joe T in the back court to slow down and pressure the other teams guards when Connor &/or CJ can’t keep them in front of them. The other thing that caught my eye was there were only 2 players in addition to Joe W that could actually put the ball on the floor and drive it into the lane to create opportunities for others; Joe T and Bakari. This team is really going to need this to have any chance as the rest of the team outside of Joe W has zero ability to create their own shot. Against better competition we need creative players that can create for others. I thought the pairing of Joe T & Bakari at the guards in the last 7 minutes of the game was some of the best & most exciting play overall last night. There was activity and energy with those two.
Disappointed, off-nights maybe....
Connor
He’s fundamentally solid and took a couple of threes knocking down 1. His strength is passing the ball and at times he makes some nice passes setting up teammates. I’m just not sure he’s starting PG material overall at this point when you watch the game. He lacks foot speed and overall quickness to break opponents down off the dribble and his shooting remains suspect. High IQ player no doubt and nothing terrible in his play but I think we need more from his position in the starting role. I think what we should be doing at times is posting him up on the block against smaller guards ala Wisconsin. He’s strong and physical so take advantage of that please.
Kreiner
I’m not sure if it’s anxiety or nerves but it seems like the first time he enters a game he makes 2-3 mistakes immediately. It’s usually the second time in he then plays solid ball. I was hoping to see less of the first appearance Ryan from a senior. Be aggressive, physical and attack the glass too more.
Nunge
Number one thing is he’s playing way too soft and passive. He and Ryan need to crank up their motors and emulate Garza’s tenacity. Move your feet, anticipate and attack the glass. This whole passive approach is not going to cut it at all. You have a golden opportunity but you are not playing with the intensity to take it.
X Factor....
Cordell
Coming into the season I was thinking he might be the odd man out but after seeing Kreiner and Nunge he may be what we sorely need up front opposite Garza. You know Cordell will play nasty with that junkyard dog attitude and we need that at the four. The only thing is Cordell does his best overall work on the block so can he and Garza play effectively together when Garza does well around the bucket too? The number one thing though is we need a rebounder so who can deliver???
First, one of the pre-season predictors had us picked to finish 9th in the B1G and although I do not have a great feel for the league overall this year I think that is very fair based on what I witnessed when you look at the personnel strengths & short comings from a macro, objective view. This team will struggle mightily at times this year and I see a few losing streaks and maybe a few blow outs coming against the strongest competition. I think the finish range in the B1G is plus or minus 2 which means 7th best case, 11th worst case. If Fran gets this team to 7th or better he’s done a remarkable job.m
The DePaul game Monday is big for this team!
Team Evaluation
Strengths
Passing
Shooting
Chemistry
Challenges
Rebounding
Defense
S-S-S - Shot Creation, Stagnation (movement off the ball), Soft
Player Evaluation
Joe W
Great, great ball player who is absolutely head and shoulders above anyone else on this roster. Does everything at both ends at a very high level. High IQ, very unselfish too. Let’s enjoy him because the odds are this season will be his last for good reason. He may be quiet or have to work exceedingly hard some nights to get the offensive production the team needs because we don’t have enough around him to keep opponents from scheming specifically to slow him. I could not be more impressed with him though.
JBO
He really looks the part as a veteran and excellent player. You can tell though he’s rusty and may not be fully recovered. I’m not sure if he will play past the cut-off or not but if he does not continue on OR does play but he struggles to get back all the way physically this team will suffer without him and I’d think we will be closer to 11th in the B1G. He can flat out win games with his shooting. Have thoroughly enjoyed his career.
Garza
Extremely skilled, tremendous competitor that gets the most out of what he has athletically. If everyone on this roster played as hard as him and with the tenacity he brings we’d exceed our prediction. You can tell he’s battle tested and he’s an excellent teammate. The only thing I saw last night was he did not pass as much out of the post if at all. The ball went in and he was going to shoot it. This was likely due to the opponent and the match up but he got away with some things he may not when the competition ramps up and he turned the ball over trying to do too much at times. Remember to get others involved, not rack up stats.
Those first 3 are the B1G 3 by far and there’s a line of demarcation after ...
Patrick
I really like the looks of Patrick. He’s likely not going to be a great shooter from distance especially early in his career but I do think he will knock down some in time and he’s not afraid to take some when open which is good. What I like about his game is he’s long and can do a little bit of everything. Kind of a more skilled version of Baer if that makes sense. He will get stronger in time but he can help us now and will. Thumbs up from me on him.
Joe T
Wow do I like his potential and he brings something we have not had in a long time. He’s quick, a penetrator and has a ‘junkyard’ dog mentally. Reminds me of mentality wise of one of the most underrated players of the Fran era in Sapp. Having said this he’s raw too and will have nights where the mistakes are many and fans will want him tossed off the roster as he learns and improves. This will be the most interesting player to see what Fran does with because I think he needs to play a large number of minutes this season to move that learning curve along through the good and bad. Will Fran be patient? He has dribble drive and breakdown ability we rarely have along with the ability to play in your face defense at the point.
CJ
In him we have a solid to good ball player. I thought he struggled more last night offensively to find shots in the offense against better competition & athleticism. I think he will struggle more this season with better competition coming as he learns. He reminds me very much of a poor mans Joe W. Not a great athlete but not a poor athlete either - kind of in between. I don’t think he’ll ever make it to Joe’s level but he’s going to improve with experience and definitely will help us. Willingness to play D is a plus and seems like a great, team oriented kid too. A keeper.
Bakari
You can see he has some holes in his game and despite hitting a 3, I’m not sure he’s going to provide much scoring. What’s intriguing to me though is his length, quickness and speed. If committed, he could be a guy we play at times, especially when paired with Joe T in the back court to slow down and pressure the other teams guards when Connor &/or CJ can’t keep them in front of them. The other thing that caught my eye was there were only 2 players in addition to Joe W that could actually put the ball on the floor and drive it into the lane to create opportunities for others; Joe T and Bakari. This team is really going to need this to have any chance as the rest of the team outside of Joe W has zero ability to create their own shot. Against better competition we need creative players that can create for others. I thought the pairing of Joe T & Bakari at the guards in the last 7 minutes of the game was some of the best & most exciting play overall last night. There was activity and energy with those two.
Disappointed, off-nights maybe....
Connor
He’s fundamentally solid and took a couple of threes knocking down 1. His strength is passing the ball and at times he makes some nice passes setting up teammates. I’m just not sure he’s starting PG material overall at this point when you watch the game. He lacks foot speed and overall quickness to break opponents down off the dribble and his shooting remains suspect. High IQ player no doubt and nothing terrible in his play but I think we need more from his position in the starting role. I think what we should be doing at times is posting him up on the block against smaller guards ala Wisconsin. He’s strong and physical so take advantage of that please.
Kreiner
I’m not sure if it’s anxiety or nerves but it seems like the first time he enters a game he makes 2-3 mistakes immediately. It’s usually the second time in he then plays solid ball. I was hoping to see less of the first appearance Ryan from a senior. Be aggressive, physical and attack the glass too more.
Nunge
Number one thing is he’s playing way too soft and passive. He and Ryan need to crank up their motors and emulate Garza’s tenacity. Move your feet, anticipate and attack the glass. This whole passive approach is not going to cut it at all. You have a golden opportunity but you are not playing with the intensity to take it.
X Factor....
Cordell
Coming into the season I was thinking he might be the odd man out but after seeing Kreiner and Nunge he may be what we sorely need up front opposite Garza. You know Cordell will play nasty with that junkyard dog attitude and we need that at the four. The only thing is Cordell does his best overall work on the block so can he and Garza play effectively together when Garza does well around the bucket too? The number one thing though is we need a rebounder so who can deliver???
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Connor is what I would call a utility player.
Doesn't have a true position but smart player who can do enough in spurts at various spots to be a positive.
He definitely can't be our main pg though.
This was his first game as a true freshman and you've figured out he won't help us going forward? Tough crowd.
This team's starting 5 is slow.
Garza and JoeW are two really skilled offensive players. Garza will struggle a lot more when competiton amps up and he gets less friendly whistle in B1G road play.
The various guys at the other 3 positions didn't really show much.
JBo to me doesn't look as quick/healthy with his new hip. I do not think he will be able to play as well as he did last year.
We lost Cook---a turnover machine but also a mismatch athletically vs most teams we faced. We
lost Baer, a scrappy defender/3ball maker. We lost Moss, a streaky scorer. We have a compromised JBo.
This can be a .500 team in B1G cleaing up on bottom feeders but they are not going to win often vs teams in B1G that are .500 or better.
They won't be has bad has Fran's 2017-2018 team because at least these guys have Point guard depth and they also try harder on defense.
Its early, so maybe Nunge at 4 will show more...or he can be bench guy and maybe Pemsl is big upgrade..JoeT certainly brings a lot more quickness defensively than anyone else on the roster--but he is raw offensively. Patrick---it is too early to see what kind of player he will be. Fredrick---whether he can score at high level is unknown. At least he is better athlete than Ellingson was, so he can play defense.
Connor is a role player, pass 1st PG. Works okay when you put him on team with 4-studs. Not so great when you need more scoring out of your PG position.
Garza and JoeW are not enough scoring to carry a team. We saw that with Fran's Jok/Uthoff team--having only two guys that can score, the B1G coaches figure out how to defend 2 guys and make the other 3 guys score and the team ends up doing the Fran Fade. If a high level 3rd scorer emerges (Fredrick and Patrick?), then maybe it is better season than I expect.
Garza and JoeW are two really skilled offensive players. Garza will struggle a lot more when competiton amps up and he gets less friendly whistle in B1G road play.
The various guys at the other 3 positions didn't really show much.
JBo to me doesn't look as quick/healthy with his new hip. I do not think he will be able to play as well as he did last year.
We lost Cook---a turnover machine but also a mismatch athletically vs most teams we faced. We
lost Baer, a scrappy defender/3ball maker. We lost Moss, a streaky scorer. We have a compromised JBo.
This can be a .500 team in B1G cleaing up on bottom feeders but they are not going to win often vs teams in B1G that are .500 or better.
They won't be has bad has Fran's 2017-2018 team because at least these guys have Point guard depth and they also try harder on defense.
Its early, so maybe Nunge at 4 will show more...or he can be bench guy and maybe Pemsl is big upgrade..JoeT certainly brings a lot more quickness defensively than anyone else on the roster--but he is raw offensively. Patrick---it is too early to see what kind of player he will be. Fredrick---whether he can score at high level is unknown. At least he is better athlete than Ellingson was, so he can play defense.
Connor is a role player, pass 1st PG. Works okay when you put him on team with 4-studs. Not so great when you need more scoring out of your PG position.
Garza and JoeW are not enough scoring to carry a team. We saw that with Fran's Jok/Uthoff team--having only two guys that can score, the B1G coaches figure out how to defend 2 guys and make the other 3 guys score and the team ends up doing the Fran Fade. If a high level 3rd scorer emerges (Fredrick and Patrick?), then maybe it is better season than I expect.
Nunge was unimpressive. It was only one game, though. Way too soon to write him off.
Not sold on Connor as the number one option at PG. He's a nice reserve utility player for spot minutes on the perimeter. My hope is that Joe T. matures quickly and can handle major minutes soon.
They did what they should have done by giving a thorough beating to a not very good team. No reason to try to talk up SIUE and make them out to be more than what they are.
Iowa is reasonably slotted in the 7-9 range in the B1G. Nothing about last night made me think less, or more, of them. Yet.
Not sold on Connor as the number one option at PG. He's a nice reserve utility player for spot minutes on the perimeter. My hope is that Joe T. matures quickly and can handle major minutes soon.
They did what they should have done by giving a thorough beating to a not very good team. No reason to try to talk up SIUE and make them out to be more than what they are.
Iowa is reasonably slotted in the 7-9 range in the B1G. Nothing about last night made me think less, or more, of them. Yet.
We should just cancel the season based on evaluations from the peanut gallery. It’s one game. In November.
For some perspective
SI's preseason ranking of last nights opponent : 301. SIU Edwardsville (10th in OVC)
Kenpom has them at 325
Sagarin has them at 315
SI's preseason ranking of last nights opponent : 301. SIU Edwardsville (10th in OVC)
Kenpom has them at 325
Sagarin has them at 315
I watched that game not feeling real confident about performing against tougher competition which this season comes sooner rather than later. We can't just rely on Weiskamp and Garza to carry the load scoring and not seeing where the help will come at this early stage of the season. My gut feeling tells me Bohannon will end up redshirting and that leaves a pretty major hole in the backcourt.
Way too early to write off Nunge IMO but not sure Fran will coach him up to maximize his skill set. Don't like seeing him drift around the perimeter with his length and body frame. Fran played him out of position his first season and things may seem headed in that direction again. Wait and see on this issue and on the team in general.
Way too early to write off Nunge IMO but not sure Fran will coach him up to maximize his skill set. Don't like seeing him drift around the perimeter with his length and body frame. Fran played him out of position his first season and things may seem headed in that direction again. Wait and see on this issue and on the team in general.
I think we’re going to be OK. Nunge hasn’t played on the big stage in the last 20 months. He’s going to get better and more comfortable in his game. People bagging on Connor are being overly critical. He brings toughness and a good basketball IQ, and I’m hopeful he’ll find his shot along the way. Pemsl will bring tenacity and toughness when he returns. We’re not winning the conference with this group but there’s a big upside to this squad. They’ll have to fight every game and take no opponent as an easy out but I see more positive attributes than negative so I remain cautiously optimistic.
I liked what I saw out of Joe T. I was more disappointed with Kreiner than Nunge. Considering this is Nunge first meaningful action in a year I will wait a couple of more games before I make an opinion on him. If Connor can get better at shooting the 3 that can be the X factor considering the amount of attention Garza gets and Wieskamp. The one area I am concerned with is rebounding. Too many offensive rebounds by SIUE. If they can clean that up our defense should be good enough to compete given our offense will be putting up points most of the year.
For the most part, you are seeing what you want to see. I don't think we're world beaters by any means, but it seems you came in with a negative slant ahead of time and then just used what you saw to confirm that, true or not.
A
anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
Guest
Overall, for the first game, I saw a lot to like. First career game for several guys and first game after red-shirting for a couple of others. No Pemsl yet either. Talent and potential seem to be there, especially if JBo is a go all season.
But one of the most glaring faults, which is nothing new under Fran, is the repeated failure to block out on rebounding. It happened often and allowed one SIUE guy to grab the rebound from three Hawkeyes on multiple occasions. That is a huge swing and will continue to cost Iowa games unless it changes. Iowa almost never blocks out, and I just don't know what Fran's philosophy is on rebounding. Based on history, it looks like it's just "get the ball," and that hasn't worked, and it will not work. Block out, rebound, and this team can be really good.
But one of the most glaring faults, which is nothing new under Fran, is the repeated failure to block out on rebounding. It happened often and allowed one SIUE guy to grab the rebound from three Hawkeyes on multiple occasions. That is a huge swing and will continue to cost Iowa games unless it changes. Iowa almost never blocks out, and I just don't know what Fran's philosophy is on rebounding. Based on history, it looks like it's just "get the ball," and that hasn't worked, and it will not work. Block out, rebound, and this team can be really good.
I was extremely unimpressed with Nunge his freshman year. He didn’t look anything close to a big ten impact player and I had high hopes for him coming out of high school. I don’t know why people thought he would be much better after a redshirt year. To me you’re just tying up a scholarship for another year by doing that. Last night he looked no different, a bottom of the rotation big ten player at best.
I'd agree more with Settles comments. The way Fran's teams run, Patrick will be fine. Yes, he'll be pushed around some in certain matchups, and he'll cause some issues for opponents in others because of his length, basketball IQ, and skills.
If I was Xavier and saw that starting lineup, might be thinking I want a little more quickness and diversity the next four years......Pemsil will help,Joe T , will help but other the JW not a lot of quicks and explosiveness out there...
Agree with your comment on shooting form,,,both Frans kids of awkward looking shots.
I think X might be looking at Nunge and thinking, I'm starting fresh or soph season. We'll start to learn what Cordell can do but if I'm looking at Nunge as the competition for minutes X is gotta be feeling good about a lot of minutes right away.
Anyone know why Kriener always looks half asleep and usually plays that way too often? Kid always look like he just woke up from a nap and was thrust into the game.
Ryan looks 40 years old, probably tired.
Seems to me Kriener always plays better when he's paired with Pemsl on the floor.
I'm might be a bit biased, but I think SIUE will wind up better than their current ranking.
I'm might be a bit biased, but I think SIUE will wind up better than their current ranking.
???
Northwestern and Nebraska look grim but Illinois is 2-0 and currently ranked two spots above Iowa by Pomeroy. Rutgers is 1-0 and top 75. Neither one is likely a world beater but “Dumpster fires”?
Nah.
Ah...so you’re predicting that those teams will be “dumpster fires”?
Based on what?
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