2023-24 Wrestling Roster - Ohio State
The official 2023-24 Wrestling Roster for the Ohio State
Note the 2020 national champion banners in the background for Moore and Pletcher.
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Note the 2020 national champion banners in the background for Moore and Pletcher.
Quit wasting pixels. You’re the only one talking about Tom staying on board if he gets let go.
Honest question - I wonder how much influence big boosters have on an AD, and either way, what big boosters are saying about TnT. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Beth is doing her evaluations.
Sounds like one of them may have dropped a dime on her fishing expedition, eh? Hate to think PSU might have adequate time to sharpen their pencil before developing a plan to keep the magic man in PA…
He’s a magic man, momma.
Agree with everything but last sentence. If you don't whack them on the knuckles enough for stupid posts when young, before you know it they'll be another turd (Iowa or PSU) floating in the Cesspool. Tank is already too full. 🙂
Some evaluations are more meaningful than others. See Gary Barta.
I don't have the answers and will never claim to, but 'the grass aint always greener.....'
Some change is needed, that goes for both wrestling and football, but getting rid of the head men will not bring the change we want to see - IMO
So let the decline continue?
At what point do you say "Enough is enough"?
What is your red line?
"The grass isn't always greener..." as it relates to athletic program leadership is the weakest, most risk-averse, excuse making, cop out stance one can possibly take. OF COURSE it isn't always greener--there are just no guarantees in life. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a consequence for an underachieving coach.
TNT have had plenty of time to make these changes but for whatever reason have chosen not to. Askren and others have been saying this stuff out loud for nearly a decade and we are still seeing the same issues every March. At what point do you stop giving them time to fix an issue that they don’t seem to be interested in fixing?
Remember that “you get what you earn” quote everyone loves so much? That applies to Tom and Terry too.
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I'm assuming your consequences are to get rid of Tom? What about the others, are they gone too? If so, who do you realistically bring in? Like I said, I agree something has to change if we want to even be competitive, but I don't think I'm ready to say give them the hook yet.
Besides recruiting Spencer Lee, what has this coaching staff done over the last decade that gives you confidence that they can get this turned around? Top-level HS kids don't want to train in Iowa City, so what are TNT doing to fix that?
Once again, these issues aren't new. They've been called out for years, and we are still seeing the same results every March. This isn't just about a 5th place finish, but HOW we finished 5th place. I'm sick of the bullshit excuses about NIL and the gambling stuff. Those things have nothing to do with Iowa's continued inability to finish shots and wrestle through tough positions. The longer this goes on, the deeper hole this staff is creating for itself.
Some very well-respected people in the sport have been critiquing our staff for years and they haven't adjusted at all. Their 'solution' was hitching their wagon to the Ferarri clan. This tells me that they aren't seeing the real issues with the program and that they don't have an actual plan to get it fixed.
If this coaching staff looks the same going into the 2024-25 season, I will be fully onboard with a total overhaul in 2025.
They lost me at the Ferrari debacle. The SS should have been the final straw, imo. Some things haven’t changed with Tommy and Terry since they were children, imo.
I think they just got desperate and took a gamble. It was a terrible look for the program.
Wtf? Are you seriously thinking/worried about assistants being let go when a head coach is released? A new head coach brings in staff of their choice. People who are on the same page as them. This is a problem with the system. All current assistants are part of the underperforming system.
This. This. This.
I can predict with near 100% accuracy what every Iowa team will struggle with heading into each season and it's been that way for a decade.
Less focus on PSU and final placements. More focus on the process. That's how the gap gets closed, if it's even possible.
They had a great opportunity to start to turn that narrative this year. The draws were good. Expectations were relatively low. It didn't happen. Both title contenders were beat on their own attacks. Every hawk lost their last match of the year. With the exception of Caliendo, offense was at a premium after day 1. New year, same story and Tom has nowhere to look but in the mirror.
"We can't fire Tom because then we might lose Telford and Morningstar."
That's a feature, not a bug lol
When are you guys going to realize it’s NOT the amazing coaching PSU does, it’s the amazing recruiting they do that really separates them. That’s why they seem to be better at scrambling and finishing shots. Guys like Nago and their 125 transfer 2 years ago regressed under their system and coaching. There are plenty of good to great high school wrestlers that never improved there, so they just never made the line up and disappeared. If you replace TnT, the fantasy of DT and Dake taking over may be the only way we ever recruit good enough to even be close to PSU. Any other replacements, and you’re wasting your time. I also believe the two biggest donors for the new facility are big TnT fans, so better make the hire good enough to woo them or attract similar donors.
This is wrong. PSU's recruiting dominance follows from the gains that the wrestlers make when they go there. Look at the 2022 recruiting class. Ohio St's #1 ranked "Young Bucks" class had 4 top 20 recruits including the top 3 overall. Penn State had one top 20 recruit in that class - Levi Haines (who was ~15). Two years laters, the results for the two classes:
NCAA titles:
Young Bucks 1 - Haines 1
Finals Appearances:
Young Bucks 2 - Haines 2
Hodge Finalists:
Young Bucks 0 - Haines 1
While I doubt anyone at Ohio St is disappointed in the "historic" Young Bucks class, Penn State has gotten as much from their one guy right out of the gate.
In addition, #42 recruit Braeden Davis was the #1 seed at NCAAs as a true freshman. #59 recruit Mitch Mesenbrink transfers in to Penn State before his freshman year and makes the national finals. Unranked room guys Terrell Barraclough and Lucas Cochran both beat AAs wrestling up a class in spot duty. Penn State is getting more out of all of their recruits at every level - the blue chip recruits, mid-tier recruits, and room guys all show more development and better results than at other places. That is either due to superior coaching/training methods or an ability to identify underrated recruits across the board (seems likely to be the former).
Given that Penn State is getting better results from their guys who come in at every level, is it any wonder that the blue chip guys are seeking out Penn State now? The program itself does the recruiting because of the coaching/training.
Obviously, Penn State doesn't "hit" on every recruit, no one does, but most of the misses among their blue chip recruits are due to either injury or off-mat issues (e.g. Altons, Teasdale, Howard), and they are relatively few and far between. In addition, Penn State hasn't had much success with portal guys, especially in the short term (Hildebrandt, Conel, and Nagao/Truax all regressed), but that is a sign that their success is based in the guys they get in the room and train in their way from the start (or at least before their freshman years in the case of Mesenbrink or Kerkvliet if they are not officially PSU recruits).
When are you going to finally realize this is wrong? It is an important factor in what makes them so good, but you don't get this good by that being the ONLY thing.
Why is 2/3 or more of his line-up consistently from other states if PA kids are so great?
I've never heard Brands say we won in 2020.
I didn't think they had the maturity needed when they came (I know they didn't come here at the same time) but I think Tom has matured some. He's done some great things and is VERY dedicated to Iowa. He has also done some questionable things that make me wonder what he was thinking (see Ferrari circus). I don't doubt his love for the team, but I doubt his ability to see his own shortcomings. We have been doing the same thing the past 13 years and generally, it has not been working. He can't seem to adapt to the changing landscape and fix what's broken. I think he's a great person, just maybe a bit shortsighted sometimes, to the team's detriment.
I don’t wonder at all. Nothing more than desperation. His world is closing in and he’s trying not to get Zalesky’ed.
Are you going to argue that PA doesn’t have the best high school wrestling?
When Iowa was on top of the wrestling world four short years ago, where were your studs from?
And a million stats that prove PA has the best high school wrestling.
While that’s true I think the point was more that at this point Cael is able to get guys from wherever in the country he wants. Penn State is not winning with teams full of starters from Pennsylvania.
Beau Bartlett: Wyoming Seminary, PA
Tyler Kasak: Bethlehem Catholic, PA
Levi Haines: Biglerville High, PA
Carter Starocci: Erie Cathedral Prep, PA
85 points
2nd place Cornell: 72.5 points
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Spencer Lee
Austin DeSanto
Max Murin
Kaleb Young
Mike Kemerer
Your last national championship
But whatever
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It’s all comes down to recruiting.
When you get world team members they don’t need to be coached any more. Hell, I could coach PSU to a national championship. These guys are All American locks coming out of high school. Scouting and game planning is all they need help with.
Cael is the BEST recruiter with the most money. Best coach? Not so sure. Why didn’t Nagao and Truax progress in terms of placement? Why can’t he coach a 125 pounder to AA status?
Watch Llindahl win it all at least twice — a world champ out of high school
When you get world team members they don’t need to be coached any more. Hell, I could coach PSU to a national championship. These guys are All American locks coming out of high school. Scouting and game planning is all they need help with.
Cael is the BEST recruiter with the most money. Best coach? Not so sure. Why didn’t Nagao and Truax progress in terms of placement? Why can’t he coach a 125 pounder to AA status?
Watch Llindahl win it all at least twice — a world champ out of high school
I don't disagree for a second that Cael is also great at coaching/training, nor do I think he is 'perfect' at anything - his coaching doesn't always make a champion, nor does his recruiting always identify/get the best guy. But I do think his ability to get the best recruits, on average, is his greatest strength. Sure, now that he has won alot, the program recruits itself to a degree. But your use of recruit rankings and the tOSU example to argue his coaching is most important relies on the assumption that rankings are always accurate or meaningful. They are useful on average, but not when you look at individual recruits. I think Karl has an eye for knowing when a #24 recruit is going to be better than a #4 recruit. The bigger (not only) reason Haines (#15) and MM (#59) have performed well is he had a very strong sense that they were NOT going to perform like #15/#59. He uses the rankings in his own mind, not those of others. I trust his more, for obvious reasons. Recruiting is #1, coaching/training is a very important but distant second, IMO. He's good at both.
Didn’t say it’s the only thing, just most important thing. It’s not like they don’t coach, but when you start with the selection of talent they get, you can have plenty of misses, regression, and still fill in with guys that are excelling. Don’t jump on the PSU fan bandwagon, and pretend they are making silk purses out of sows ears.
I am so using the silk purses and sows ears reference! Almost as good as separating the wheat from the chaff. HR is both entertaining and educational!
Think MM was definitely top 20, thought 12-15 ish senior year. Anyone who seen Haines in high school knew he was much better than 15, plus he skipped his senior year to train with PSU college team. Caliendo was much better than 52, and after I went back and looked at his high school matches, you could see he had a nice combo of strength and quickness and good at finishing takedowns. Having an eye for diamonds in the rough and who are likely to pan out in top 15 is a big part of being a great recruiter.
Recruiting better athletes is part of coaching and always has been a part of coaching.
NJ, Maryland, and NY are all bangers as well and Carl can drive to recruit them. Their family can drive to all the home meets...
Not only drive to recruit them, but if he has time, he has been known to go to a HS wrestling meet and sit in the stands to watch a possible recruit wrestle. No contact. Just sitting in the stands to watch. If you're a 17 year old recruit, that's impressive. It's always the little things that matter sometimes.
Well when people talk about coaching here they seem to discount getting the best guy as part of the skill set,
Tom doesn't even believe in calling kids so....
We don't want to let the Jet go to rust.
