Garza foul trouble and use of Ogundele
- Thread starter KcTo
- Start date
Have those who voted “zone” actually watched Iowa play this year?
Sorry to keep arguing because I hate when threads get hijacked by a couple jackasses,(you and me) but the question was, what will Fran do, not what we personally think should happen. I voted the same as you but don’t think that’s the best option.
All I said was JO is not nearly ready to play real minutes this year (which he obviously isn’t) and you flipped out.
I’m curious why you think Ogundele isn’t ready to play minutes?
He’s been playing all year 1st Garza and Nunge, and has had nearly an entire season under his belt as experience.
would you consider 1-2 minutes a half as viable?
You really are underestimating Jack’s abilities
He’s played 13 minutes the entire season, five fewer than Austin Ash. Kris Murray is a more refined and versatile player, who has played 60 minutes this season. I don’t know how there are people who believe that putting Ogundele in for 5 minutes per game is a better option than having a lineup with Pat/Wieskamp, KrM, and KeM in to spell Garza. You maintain length and rebounding ability on the defensive end while also creating a mismatch on the other end of the court. I’ll take either Keegan or Kris on the perimeter against almost any team’s backup 5 (I highly doubt Fran will have Garza out of the game and leave the backups to face a Kofi Cockburn type of player)
March isn’t the time to start experimenting with an unproven, underdeveloped, project of a player. Of course that’s JMO
Send goons to hack and beat on Garza and athletic Guards to play tight D on our guards. That's the playbook on D. If refs are clueless, like the often are, then it'll be a tight game. Especially if our shooting goes cold.
We did see EJ Liddel back Keegan into the paint for 2 turnaround jumpers on consecutive possessions, and granted EJ is Uber talented, a man with the size and strength of Kockburn will have little to no issue with backing Murray down and dunking right on his fore head.
the question comes, when, not if Garza gets into foul trouble (albeit as defined by Fran) what will Fran do to stop the oppositions powerful centers?
Fran does have the luxury of home games to work out this dilemma and we shall see how he’ll play it before the BTT’s elite teams
Not many big men in the country are as good as Liddell or Cockburn, and Garza doesn’t often get into foul trouble. In the unlikely scenario that Garza is in foul trouble and a high caliber big man like one of those two is in the game, then you crash down on them and make the other team beat you via three ball. Iowa ain’t winning many games without Garza anyways
Josh’s best role would be as a goon—trying to legit injure someone’s best big (or really any player jumping up in the paint/above the rim)....
AND NO—-i am NOT advocating this John Chaney-like move
I wouldn't say that he would play that way and I also don't believe Fran would allow that to happen.
I agree. And my comment I should have said only pertains to this year. So unless we had a sociopathic coach—we don’t, that was an an ALFRAUD time ago—it was purely a provocative way of saying that there isn’t much he can do for us THIS YEAR
I hear you. He needs to get in the proper shape first before hoisting up the minutes appreciably. I believe he has potential, but it will require conditioning, diet, and devotion to it on his part. Fran and staff will get him there.
What? Sure he can play the 3, but Murray is as natural a 4 as they come. He's the best shot blocker on the team and probably a better rebounder than Garza.
Keegan and Kris are 6'8" going on 6'9" with good springs and good timing on blocked shots, rebounds, and steals.
That being said, there are some matchups like Kofi and Dickenson where they would have no chance. The Liddell example above is a mini-example.
In those situations I think JO may be needed regardless of how ready he is, and you put him in for a few minutes and see how it goes. You would still double the post whether in man or zone anytime it goes inside, it's just that the opposing big shouldn't be able to catch it as close to the basket as they would with a Murray guarding them. Even with a double team if a big catches it 4 feet from the rim they are just going to turn and shoot over a Murray kid and the double won't have much effect. If they catch it 6 feet away then they have to make a post move and the double team can be effective.
I don't think JO is close to ready. But sometimes it's your best option.
That being said, there are some matchups like Kofi and Dickenson where they would have no chance. The Liddell example above is a mini-example.
In those situations I think JO may be needed regardless of how ready he is, and you put him in for a few minutes and see how it goes. You would still double the post whether in man or zone anytime it goes inside, it's just that the opposing big shouldn't be able to catch it as close to the basket as they would with a Murray guarding them. Even with a double team if a big catches it 4 feet from the rim they are just going to turn and shoot over a Murray kid and the double won't have much effect. If they catch it 6 feet away then they have to make a post move and the double team can be effective.
I don't think JO is close to ready. But sometimes it's your best option.
You’ll just have to trust Fran, because well his decision is the only one that matters, lol
I do think that if Iowa only needs to rest Garza for 1-2 minutes about 2 to 3 times a game, that they won't use JO in those situations. However, if Garza got a 2nd foul with 10 minutes left in the first half then that's a totally different situation and they may need to consider it.
agree. and agree.
However, Garza played only 28 minutes owing to fouls trouble v Cockburn at ILlinois so history would suggest that there is a significant risk in foul trouble v ILlinois in any potential rematch.
If Garza gets a second foul with 10 minutes to go in the first half of pretty much any game from here on out, then Fran is going to have to seriously reevaluate his two foul rule and trust Luka not to pick up the third
And Fran needs to be more deliberate with his rests. Like many coaches, he'll make a substitution and right after there's a TV timeout, but he'll keep the same lineup out there after the break. That 2-3 minute rest should be viewed as 'bench time' as much as actual time on bench for Garza. It's very nitpicky but this will matter if Iowa has to play Illinois or Michigan again where Fran now has less lineup flexibility without Nunge.
Also agreed with your earlier point about Ogundele. Fran may be forced to play him in limited minutes against teams with big bodies if Garza is in foul trouble. Either Murray twin or Josh is a bad matchup against Dickinson or Kofi so the key will be on team defense to make it more difficult to get the ball in the post.
Playing Murray 1-1 with Kofi for example would only do 3 things:
1. Get Murray in foul trouble
2. Get Kofi shots from right on top of the rim
3. Double the number of offensive rebounds Kofi gets
The defense could try to double him PRIOR to the catch by having someone front and back him, but then you are giving up wide open 3's or weak side layups probably.
As bad as Ogundele is (and I share the sentiment that he is probably really rough) he's the only guy besides Garza capable of pushing Kofi out to 6 feet on the post catch, and blocking him out on other players shots. I'm huge on Murray and very skeptical of Ogundele, but even I would consider giving him minutes in certain situations. We don't care if he fouls out, for example. Maybe it wouldn't work because he's even worse than anticipated, but I'm not sure any of us on this board know enough to be certain either way.
1. Get Murray in foul trouble
2. Get Kofi shots from right on top of the rim
3. Double the number of offensive rebounds Kofi gets
The defense could try to double him PRIOR to the catch by having someone front and back him, but then you are giving up wide open 3's or weak side layups probably.
As bad as Ogundele is (and I share the sentiment that he is probably really rough) he's the only guy besides Garza capable of pushing Kofi out to 6 feet on the post catch, and blocking him out on other players shots. I'm huge on Murray and very skeptical of Ogundele, but even I would consider giving him minutes in certain situations. We don't care if he fouls out, for example. Maybe it wouldn't work because he's even worse than anticipated, but I'm not sure any of us on this board know enough to be certain either way.
Another tough scenario. I would probably play Murray with 2 fouls before I'd play Garza with 2, so I'd probably keep Murray in and go zone or have the double come sooner on post entry so that it's less likely he would get a 3rd foul.
Another option is just to have Fran go off on Bo Boroski and get a T just to chew up 2 or 3 minutes until Garza is rested
. I've seen coaches "accidentally" spill water on the court for this purpose, or perhaps a guy get injured, that type of stuff. Somewhat unethical unless you consider gamesmanship like that fair play, but if we're playing Illinois I'm ok with it!In an interview with Fran I just read, he said both Kris and Josh may get some minutes. Not sure when, OR if it just coach speak, but he said it.
#1 lol at the delay tactic, but with more ‘further review‘ time stop, use of TV timeouts, and other coach-related time stoppages, you can certainly see how Garza could get more rests.Another tough scenario. I would probably play Murray with 2 fouls before I'd play Garza with 2, so I'd probably keep Murray in and go zone or have the double come sooner on post entry so that it's less likely he would get a 3rd foul.
Another option is just to have Fran go off on Bo Boroski and get a T just to chew up 2 or 3 minutes until Garza is rested
#2. Murray is fouls prone and asking him to guard any of the true centers at NE, WI, IL, or MI is going To result in more fouls
#3. Under no circumstances go zone against any big team team that can shoot 3’s. zone is simply not an option, especially win you remove Garza from rebounding
therefore #2-3 aren’t going to turn out well
And what's the worst that can happen playing JO. A guy like Kofi scores a couple buckets ? Probably gonna happen anyway without Garza.
