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GDP -1.4 %

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Please report to the nearest Department of Homeland Security office for your hearing before the Disinformation Governance Board.
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Please observe the actual change in Federal debt and note that year to date in FY21-22 the Federal government has accrued over 2 trillion dollars of additional debt:


3EwgpKb.png


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/debt-to-the-penny
 
The numbers are what they are, but there are positive takeaways. The US economy is consumer driven, and spending is robust. Unemployment is low. If we saw those numbers lagging significantly yesterday's numbers would be more impactful.
Real wages keep declining.


January 28, 2022:

…inflation-adjusted wages fell by 4.3 percent at an annual rate over the last three months, 2.4 percent over the last year and 1.2 percent lower than they were in December 2019. Inflation-adjusted wages should have grown 2.1 percent over this period if pre-pandemic trends had continued, leaving real wages well below their pre-pandemic trend.
 
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Real wages keep declining.


January 28, 2022:

…inflation-adjusted wages fell by 4.3 percent at an annual rate over the last three months, 2.4 percent over the last year and 1.2 percent lower than they were in December 2019. Inflation-adjusted wages should have grown 2.1 percent over this period if pre-pandemic trends had continued, leaving real wages well below their pre-pandemic trend.
It disproportionately affects the poor and middle class. The good news is that it's not a tax, so that doesn't count in the narrative.
 
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A bunch of thoroughly debunked Reaganomics.
While there might be a small window of opportunity of "You don't even realize you need this thing!", if the thing sucks, then nobody buys it and you go out of business. Because there is no demand. If the thing is good, people will demand more and you can make more and you can sell more. All of this is driven by demand, not supply. Nobody with any money management skills buys a bunch of shit just because it is on sale. Anyone that does likely has all sorts of money issues.
 
When you want something, how do you get it?
You demand a product and if it doesn't exist, you see if others would also demand your product and then find a way to produce it. As I said, the only time "supply side" is correct is for the first try. After that, it's demand that keeps it going. Demand causes people to produce. And, for the "first try", people only produce something if they think there is demand for it, even if the people aren't aware of it yet.

But, go ahead. Try it your way. Go get a business loan, start producing a bunch of random things and try to invent demand by simply producing stuff. Let me know how that works out for you.
 
While there might be a small window of opportunity of "You don't even realize you need this thing!", if the thing sucks, then nobody buys it and you go out of business. Because there is no demand. If the thing is good, people will demand more and you can make more and you can sell more. All of this is driven by demand, not supply. Nobody with any money management skills buys a bunch of shit just because it is on sale. Anyone that does likely has all sorts of money issues.
Demand drives sales, for sure. That said, there has to be some initial supply of innovative products for there to be any demand. Take cell phones for example - Apple will create new iphones for a couple of different anticipated markets. They will initially produce based on anticipated demand, which is based on market research. If sales are less than anticipated for that model, they will cut or discontinue production. If demand is higher, they ramp up production. Demand is both predictive and trailing, depending on the product life cycle.
 
Demand drives sales, for sure. That said, there has to be some initial supply of innovative products for there to be any demand. Take cell phones for example - Apple will create new iphones for a couple of different anticipated markets. They will initially produce based on anticipated demand, which is based on market research. If sales are less than anticipated for that model, they will cut or discontinue production. If demand is higher, they ramp up production. Demand is both predictive and trailing, depending on the product life cycle.
Exactly. Thank you.
 
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the only time "supply side" is correct is for the first try. After that, it's demand that keeps it going.
We're getting very close here.
You say the only time supply matters is for the 'first try'.
So you recognize that your genuine ability to 'demand' in the marketplace requires you to have produced and thereby hold a 'supply' of something people will accept in offer to trade.

That need for your demand to be represented by your previous production never goes away. If you try to just substitute printed dollars for actual production you'll find the system quickly falls apart. Prices rise and shelves empty when 'demand' is just tickets to buy and not representative of the production of goods and services that people actually want.

Your ability to demand in the marketplace is really just a reflection of your ability to supply of what other people want. The initial production doesn't kick off a perpetual motion machine of consumption. Only perpetual production will sustain perpetual consumption.

Do you see how the counterfeiter can cheat this process of production -> supply -> demand by only manufacturing claims (dollars) on the supply of others, but offering no real goods or services himself? The cost of his 'freeloading' shows up in the increase in prices.

When the 'counterfeiter' just funds the government spending that taxes don't cover the price increase is the 'tax' we pay for this funding method.
 
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Probably... until the GOP reminds everyone of what happens when they are in charge. Then GOP goes bye bye again and the pendulum swings back to the left.

We do always seem to end up in a recession after GOP presidents. Then the democrat in charge gets blamed for not fixing things fast enough.
Republican presidents always have to take care of the major issues like winning the cold war, Gulf War 1, 9/11 and the start of a once in a hundred year global pandemic while in office.
 
We're getting very close here.
You say the only time supply matters is for the 'first try'.
So you recognize that your genuine ability to 'demand' in the marketplace requires you to have produced and thereby hold a 'supply' of something people will accept in offer to trade.

That need for your demand to be represented by your previous production never goes away. If you try to just substitute printed dollars for actual production you'll find the system quickly falls apart. Prices rise and shelves empty when 'demand' is just tickets to buy and not representative of the production of goods and services that people actually want.

Your ability to demand in the marketplace is really just a reflection of your ability to supply of what other people want. The initial production doesn't kick off a perpetual motion machine of consumption. Only perpetual production will sustain perpetual consumption.

Do you see how the counterfeiter can cheat this process of production -> supply -> demand by only manufacturing claims (dollars) on the supply of others, but offering no real goods or services himself? The cost of his 'freeloading' shows up in the increase in prices.

When the 'counterfeiter' just funds the government spending that taxes don't cover the price increase is the 'tax' we pay for this funding method.
I might as well be talking to a brick wall. What part of "market research" and "pre-existing demand" is so difficult for you to wrap your head around?

Again, if your method works so well, start producing a bunch of crap and watch the money flow into your pockets.
 
LOL ok. The last president who made a dent in national debt was Clinton.

If inflation goes down, GDP returns to positive growth, and debt was reduced, you guys know you would just find something else to complain about.

If GDP recovers, I expect to hear nothing about it from you guys. Similar to the jobs reports. There's always a thread when they are negative and the numbers are ignored when they are positive.
My understanding is that Clinton balanced the budget... we didn't make any progress toward the debt, we just didn't make it worse.. for which as a republican I'm willing to give him credit for doing that.
 
I might as well be talking to a brick wall. What part of "market research" and "pre-existing demand" is so difficult for you to wrap your head around?
I’m ignoring that because it’s irrelevant to your original question of how the inflation shrinking the real output of the economy.

On this point, do we agree, or is there something still unclear:

Do you see how the counterfeiter can cheat this process of production -> supply -> demand by only manufacturing claims (dollars) on the supply of others, but offering no real goods or services himself? The cost of his 'freeloading' shows up in the increase in prices.

When the 'counterfeiter' just funds the government spending that taxes don't cover the price increase is the 'tax' we pay for this funding method.
 
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While there might be a small window of opportunity of "You don't even realize you need this thing!", if the thing sucks, then nobody buys it and you go out of business. Because there is no demand. If the thing is good, people will demand more and you can make more and you can sell more. All of this is driven by demand, not supply. Nobody with any money management skills buys a bunch of shit just because it is on sale. Anyone that does likely has all sorts of money issues.
You’re on some weird MBA rant/strawman and entirely missing the point.

If you want to consume you must first produce.
If you want to consume what someone else produced you can steal it, or produce something they will trade - the market.
How much you can ‘demand’ from the market is predicated on what you can ‘supply’ to the market.

Is there any part of that you disagree with?
 
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My understanding is that Clinton balanced the budget... we didn't make any progress toward the debt, we just didn't make it worse.. for which as a republican I'm willing to give him credit for doing that.
I'd be giddy if we could just balance the annual budget. With GDP growth the % of interest on the overall debt v GDP would continually go down.
 
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Not many people lol.
Guessing cnn talked to joes economists who predicted inflation would slow down late last year.
We elected a vegetable.
Yes, because electing a walking hand grenade in Trump was such a better option.

And yes, I think our administration is a little focused on not leading us into a nuclear war right now.
 
All this thread shows me is once again, we are a bunch of babies in this country who only see the short term or don't look for the whys. Some of you act like prices haven't gone up our entire lives.

Boo hoo the economy!!! Most of us don't even completely understand it, including me, but base our votes off of it solely. Nor do we know who to actually blame for it but might as well the president, especially when he's in the other party. We're dumb.
 
Yes, because electing a walking hand grenade in Trump was such a better option.

And yes, I think our administration is a little focused on not leading us into a nuclear war right now.
Probably shouldn’t have green lighted a minor incursion then.
 
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Probably shouldn’t have green lighted a minor incursion then.
Yes, because Biden obviously told Putin he was ok with an invasion. Some of you will just make up anything and keep repeating it long enough you actually start believing it.
 
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Yes, because Biden obviously told Putin he was ok with an invasion. Some of you will just make up anything and keep repeating it long enough you actually start believing it.
Even the WaPo said his comment was a disaster.
We elected a vegetable.
 
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Disinformation detected.
Please report to the nearest Department of Homeland Security office for your hearing before the Disinformation Governance Board.
A corrective action plan will be drafted to amend your anti-social behavior.

Please observe the actual change in Federal debt and note that year to date in FY21-22 the Federal government has accrued over 2 trillion dollars of additional debt:


3EwgpKb.png


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/debt-to-the-penny
Ronald has been docked 5 Social Credits.
 
All this thread shows me is once again, we are a bunch of babies in this country who only see the short term or don't look for the whys. Some of you act like prices haven't gone up our entire lives.

Boo hoo the economy!!! Most of us don't even completely understand it, including me, but base our votes off of it solely. Nor do we know who to actually blame for it but might as well the president, especially when he's in the other party. We're dumb.
You need to insert this comment the next time we have a thread where the old timers brag about how they made $1.25 an hour at their first job, and they were damn glad to have it. Thought they were living the high life when that check came on Friday. I love the people wailing that they've lost investment money this year, but discount the massive gains they've had over the decades. Sustained stock market gains aren't a birthright. Read the fine print, fellas. My people grew up poor. Food insecure poor.
We are crybabies. By and large HROT posters aren't scraping by. Be responsible for yourself and ride it out.
 
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Republican presidents always have to take care of the major issues like winning the cold war, Gulf War 1, 9/11 and the start of a once in a hundred year global pandemic while in office.

Bahahahaha

Congrats on attacking Iraq as a response to 9/11(?!?), failing to take out Bin Laden and starting a never ending gulf war. Add ignoring/dismissing the global pandemic to the list.

Dont forget the Bush Sr and Jr recessions followed by record setting Clinton and Obama economies.
 
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All this thread shows me is once again, we are a bunch of babies in this country who only see the short term or don't look for the whys. Some of you act like prices haven't gone up our entire lives.

Boo hoo the economy!!! Most of us don't even completely understand it, including me, but base our votes off of it solely. Nor do we know who to actually blame for it but might as well the president, especially when he's in the other party. We're dumb.
Presidents can do a lot more to hurt the economy than they can do to help it. Free markets for consumer goods are best left alone. Policies, especially energy policies, meant to control or steer markets, hurt. Factor in some horrible fiscal policies and you get inflation. Increase the money supply at the same time you are paying people not to work, and add policies meant to suppress oil and gas production, and this is what you get.
 
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