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Give me Otzelberger. Yeah I said it.

ISUBryceC said:
6 national titles and 6 more conference titles than Iowa doesn't do it for you?
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Iowa and Minnesota with one national championship in football since World War II. Cherry picking "historical" stats is fun.

Regarding program strength, current players' memories appear to be about 1 year long. Perfect example is recruits not caring about ISU's historically bad 2021 and very bad 2020.

Very near term, I'd say ISU and Iowa are pretty even and both have solid brands right now; Iowa with a national player of the year, NBA draft picks (possibly 2 lottery picks in 2 years), and Big Ten Tournament Championship in the last few years, ISU with a decent last 1.5 years (overlooking that historically bad year 2 years ago), some Big Twelve Tournament Championships, and NBA draft picks.

Farther out, since say 2000, ISU quite a bit better in the Dance, but overall pretty even. I'll give you Hilton as a better crowd than Carver by a long shot though.

Farther, farther out, Iowa is the better historical program, without question.
 
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Sett1997 said:
I know we blasted them head to head. He's what you're looking for. Fran is what he is, we aren't going to the next level with him.
ISU may not be either but he has them on track.
He knows the portal, no nepotism, guy is getting it done.
Last year was incredible for what he walked into. This year, ranked 10th and just knocked off Texas.
We need new blood in FB and BB.
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Why dude?

Does Sett1997 have anything to do with Jess Settles' teams? If so, did you think at that time new blood was in order and Davis needed to go? Something tells me not.

TJ has done a good job but it's a small sample size. And his results at UNLV were underwhelming.

And the Ferentz comment did nothing but discredit every word you said
 
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ISUBryceC said:
Most of those accomplishments happened before any player on Iowa was born. Historically Iowa is better, it just happens to be ancient history at this point.
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Ok. How about the last 5 years where Iowa is 4-1 vs Moo U and if they keep playing well will be 5 for 5 with NCAA berths including a 2 seed in a season Iowa was ranked in the top 10 most of the year while ISU was winning 2 games TOTAL....and the clowns weren't close to the dance in 2020 either. ISU needs to accomplish way more for you to be getting cocky on an Iowa board. Again, 4-1 last 5

That said, I do think ISU has the better coach going forward. Defense matters
 
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blhawk said:
Ok. How about the last 5 years where Iowa is 4-1 vs Moo U and if they keep playing well will be 5 for 5 with NCAA berths including a 2 seed in a season Iowa was ranked in the top 10 most of the year while ISU was winning 2 games TOTAL....and the clowns weren't close to the dance in 2020 either. ISU needs to accomplish way more for you to be getting cocky on an Iowa board. Again, 4-1 last 5

That said, I do think ISU has the better coach going forward. Defense matters
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I'd much rather beat you guys than lose to you, but if you think one game in December is the measure of the program you're wrong.

WadeLookingbill said:
Iowa and Minnesota with one national championship in football since World War II. Cherry picking "historical" stats is fun.
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You literally just proved my point. Eventually history becomes ancient history and doesn't matter anymore.

I'd add for an example, ISU's back to back regular season championships in basketball occurred over 20 years ago. They really aren't relevant anymore.
 
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IAHawk2011 said:
Winning is all that matters at the end of the day, but Iowa State plays a very unappealing brand of basketball. Not very fun to watch IMO.
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Agreed. I think at the end of the day Otz will be more accomplished than Fran.

Its two sides of the coin. Iowa wants to play shoot-the-lights out offense that is predicated on getting to the line. But they struggle when the whistle isn't friendly (which it frequently isn't on the road in the B10). Iowa State plays aggressive in-your-shorts defense. Their players were straddling and groping Texas' guards all night long. They dare the refs to call a foul every trip down the court (which they frequently don't).

It's better to expect refs not to call a foul every trip down the floor than to expect your team to shoot lights out every night. Good defense is a better strategy to win than good offense.
 
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ISUBryceC said:
I'd much rather beat you guys than lose to you, but if you think one game in December is the measure of the program you're wrong.



You literally just proved my point. Eventually history becomes ancient history and doesn't matter anymore.

I'd add for an example, ISU's back to back regular season championships in basketball occurred over 20 years ago. They really aren't relevant anymore.
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I'll be honest, I don't even know what we're talking about here. Someone mentioned that ISU was historically better, which is objectively false by any measure. Long term/medium term/short term, Iowa's program is better or even, depending on what time period you deem to be "historically" relevant.

Kids/players these days don't seem to care about that history though, other than the very short term (I'm not sure if they even care to remember Iowa just trounced ISU, or ISU had 2 wins a couple of years ago).
Go Hawks.
 
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Iafootballfan said:
No one outside the state of Iowa would say the Hawkeye basketball program is better than Iowa State's program in the last 20-25 years. We have had good H2H success - but no one cares about that.
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I think the programs are equal the last 20 years. I think as to the entire history of the programs, Iowa is better. I think the last five years, it's a slight lean to Iowa (tough one to measure given ISU's wild variation). Ten years, advantage ISU. Again, none of that really matters except the very short term. The shit experience that is Carver (except for goldilocks games) versus the generally raucous Hilton is the biggest difference between the two programs.
 
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WadeLookingbill said:
I think the programs are equal the last 20 years. I think as to the entire history of the programs, Iowa is better. I think the last five years, it's about even (tough one to measure given ISU's wild variation). Again, none of that really matters except the very short term. The shit experience that is Carver (except for goldilocks games) versus the generally raucous Hilton is the biggest difference between the two programs.
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This
Home crowds are night and day apart , considering they can’t have more NIL opportunities then us the home court atmosphere has to be a great recruiting tool
 
WadeLookingbill said:
I think the programs are equal the last 20 years. I think as to the entire history of the programs, Iowa is better. I think the last five years, it's about even (tough one to measure given ISU's wild variation). Again, none of that really matters except the very short term. The shit experience that is Carver (except for goldilocks games) versus the generally raucous Hilton is the biggest difference between the two programs.
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What’s Iowa State like five big 12 tourney titles, three or four sweet sixteens, and an elite eight since 2000. And we’ve got three, I think, big ten tourney titles. And somehow we are equal?!? I know we wear black and gold glasses but need to be realistic.

It’s like Iowa State football somehow trying to argue they are on the same level as Iowa football the past 10 or 20 years. It just ain’t there.
 
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Mohawkeye said:
Ahhh, I remember when we fired Davis and Alford took us to “the next level.” Good memories.
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You also remember Lute Olson....Fran is not Lute Olson.

Yes, the Basketball world is jealous of Iowa's success under Fran.


Over the last 5 years, mabye if Fran had paid attentione to defense and had managed the Iowa team to maximize wins instead of his Kid's playing time we might have sniffed a sweet16.
 
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Steamboat529529 said:
What’s Iowa State like four big 12 tourney titles, three or four sweet sixteens, and an elite eight since 2000. And we’ve got three, I think, big ten tourney titles. And somehow we are equal?!? I know we wear black and gold glasses but need to be realistic.

It’s like Iowa State football somehow trying to argue they are on the same level as Iowa football the past 10 or 20 years. It just ain’t there.
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They've unquestionably had better success during the Tourney a few times, but they also have a 10 year run of mediocrity or worse (yes Iowa had a bad 6 year stretch as well) in their program during the 20 year period (plus that historically bad season 2 years ago).

I just don't think you can say Tournament results necessarily indicate a stronger program, e.g. last year making a Sweet 16 as an 11 seed and Iowa flaming out two games earlier as a 5 seed doesn't necessarily mean they had/have a stronger program; or Iowa making the second round in 2000 as a 7 seed versus ISU flaming out as a 2 seed in the First Round.
 
WadeLookingbill said:
They've unquestionably had better success during the Tourney a few times, but they also have a 10 year run of mediocrity or worse (yes Iowa had a bad 6 year stretch as well) in their program during the 20 year period (plus that historically bad season 2 years ago).

I just don't think you can say Tournament results necessarily indicate a stronger program, e.g. last year making a Sweet 16 as an 11 seed and Iowa flaming out two games earlier as a 5 seed doesn't necessarily mean they had/have a stronger program; or Iowa making the second round in 2000 as a 7 seed versus ISU flaming out as a 2 seed in the First Round.
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When you are a 7 to 11 seed, which it seems like iowa has been a lot, it can be hard to make a run. But what have we done as a higher seed: 5 seed (2022), 2 seed (2021), and 3 seed (2006)?? One win.

In college football, your program is based on your regular season record, and for the elite, what they do in the postseason.

In college basketball, your program is measured by what you do in March.
 
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Early returns on TJO are very positive as a coach and a recruiter, but he is not going to Iowa IMO. I also like Devries from Drake.
 
iahawks10 said:
I didn’t bring up history, dip shit. I just set the record straight. Then again, Ole BrewHawk hasn’t always been the brightest.
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"By historically better, you of course mean less Final Fours, less Elite 8’s, less Sweet 16’s, less NCAA Tournament appearances all together, and less regular season conference championships than Iowa?

Or did you mean having .368 winning percentage against Iowa playing head to head? That is some definition of “historically better”."

You sound like a Nebraska football fan.
 
BrewHawk said:
"By historically better, you of course mean less Final Fours, less Elite 8’s, less Sweet 16’s, less NCAA Tournament appearances all together, and less regular season conference championships than Iowa?

Or did you mean having .368 winning percentage against Iowa playing head to head? That is some definition of “historically better”."

You sound like a Nebraska football fan.
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Iowa > Iowa State

Deal with it.
 
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Sett1997 said:
I know we blasted them head to head. He's what you're looking for. Fran is what he is, we aren't going to the next level with him.
ISU may not be either but he has them on track.
He knows the portal, no nepotism, guy is getting it done.
Last year was incredible for what he walked into. This year, ranked 10th and just knocked off Texas.
We need new blood in FB and BB.
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Let's get past this nepotism garbage. Both Connor and Patrick are legitimate D-1 players. Quite frankly next to Kris and maybe Filip, Connor is pretty high on the list of most important players to this team.
 
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iahawks10 said:
By historically better, you of course mean less Final Fours, less Elite 8’s, less Sweet 16’s, less NCAA Tournament appearances all together, and less regular season conference championships than Iowa?

Or did you mean having .368 winning percentage against Iowa playing head to head? That is some definition of “historically better”.
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Ok, you got me there but I was talking about recent history. Does anyone give a crap that the minnesota squirrels won national titles in football in the golden era of muscle cars and leaded gas? No.
I was talking about the 2000's. As painful as it is for us to admit this, ISU is the better basketball program of this century :(
 
szohn said:
This
Home crowds are night and day apart , considering they can’t have more NIL opportunities then us the home court atmosphere has to be a great recruiting tool
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You can take it FWIW, I was told about it via an ISU fan so I'm not sure how true it is, but apparently TJ has a couple high rollers on the side that help him with the NIL opportunities that aren't associated with the collective. This same fan said TJ used those same high rollers back when he was an assistant for Fred as well back when it wasn't kosher.
Again, grain of salt and whatnot. But hard for me to disbelieve that when they are on pace to have back-to-back top 10 recruiting classes coming in.
 
iahawks10 said:
By historically better, you of course mean less Final Fours, less Elite 8’s, less Sweet 16’s, less NCAA Tournament appearances all together, and less regular season conference championships than Iowa?

Or did you mean having .368 winning percentage against Iowa playing head to head? That is some definition of “historically better”.
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Honestly, who gives a shit about head to head. I would gladly trade head to head losses for NCAA tournament success
 
mro1978 said:
Ok, you got me there but I was talking about recent history. Does anyone give a crap that the minnesota squirrels won national titles in football in the golden era of muscle cars and leaded gas? No.
I was talking about the 2000's. As painful as it is for us to admit this, ISU is the better basketball program of this century :(
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No player/recruit cares about the 2000's either, as this thread has shown. They care about the last week or so it appears.

But as to the 2000's, ISU won a single NCAA Tournament game from 2001-2011. ISU has won 2 NCAA Tournament games the last five years (both last year as an 11 seed where they had a very fortunate/favorable set up). They also had a 2 win season without a single conference win during that time period. Sure ISU had a few years with better NCAA Tournament results in the Hoiberg era (around the time when Iowa lost 2 overtime Tournament games), but it's not like they have been some powerhouse in the 2000's that's dominant over Iowa.
 
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ChiPackHawk said:
Let's get past this nepotism garbage. Both Connor and Patrick are legitimate D-1 players. Quite frankly next to Kris and maybe Filip, Connor is pretty high on the list of most important players to this team.
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Not saying they aren't D1 players. Connor has came around after 7 years. I question the minutes for Connor in the past and Patrick. I'm not alone in that.
Agree on Connor being legit now. Great leader and has found his shot.
 
Rifler said:
I think the easiest way to navigate this transition is for you to become a Cyclone fan,.. so off to the clowns with you then.
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Probably been a Hawk fan longer than you. 1979 started listening to Zabel on the radio at work. 16 years old, worked at Pester Derby part time in high school. Lol
I hardly think wanting a coaching change equates to jumping ship on a school you have been a fan of for 43 years. 😆
Btw, I like the Cyclones too, except when they play the Hawks. I also want UNI to do well too unless they are playing the Hawks.
That blow your cork?? Lol
I'm from Iowa, I grew up in Iowa, I'm a fan of the state as well and want all of our schools to do well.
Hawks first!!
My thinking is just so childish sometimes. 😆
 
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iahawks10 said:
Fortunately for Iowa, they have the edge in both.
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I'm a hawk fan, but does it matter we hold the edge? I really don't care. It's one game per year. Honestly if the series would be dropped I wouldn't notice.
 
90-0 said:
I'm a hawk fan, but does it matter we hold the edge? I really don't care. It's one game per year. Honestly if the series would be dropped I wouldn't notice.
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To me, Iowa vs ISU in college football is a big deal every year. I honestly couldn’t tell you who won the iowa and iowa state basketball game last year.
 
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Steamboat529529 said:
To me, Iowa vs ISU in college football is a big deal every year. I honestly couldn’t tell you who won the iowa and iowa state basketball game last year.
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I think they beat us last year. I'm not looking it up. I do know they went to the sweet 16 with a first year coach and Fran has never accomplished it in his tenure at Iowa.
 
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