Well then tell Western to stop f***ing winning if you don't like hearing about it.
Grand view christian
- Thread starter Bulldogs1974
- Start date
Except my complaints are worth the program in question adhering to so that other teams can win titles too. We didn't need Regina to win 6 or 7 straight titles and we sure as f*** didn't need to trade one Regina for another.You use the word 'cheat', yet offer no tangible evidence other than your perceptions. Your argument is tired and garbage - has been for decades. (I haven't been making this argument for decades. But if others have then there must be some truth to it doesn't it to become such a tradition itself.......)
Why doesn't Unity Christian in Orange City win the state tournament every year in all sports with this unfair advantage all private schools have? (Because I said so.) LeMars Gehlen Catholic? (Too small) The newly formed Trinity Christian in Hull? (How new?) These schools should be kicking ass and taking names every single year because of the inherit advantage they have over MOC, LeMars Public, and Boyden-Hull Public. Right? (Yeah sure.)
It's become an American tradition over the past 30 years to tear down success rather than study and learn from it (Well then maybe they should let Iowa win more............wait, what were we talking about?), your complaints are just a microcosm of this mindset.
Get the f*** out of my state tournament finals. Thank you, signed everyone.
P.S. That's about as serious as I'm gonna take this. I'll let you have the rest of the thread to take what I've said too seriously.
Except my complaints are worth the program in question adhering to so that other teams can win titles too. We didn't need Regina to win 6 or 7 straight titles and we sure as f*** didn't need to trade one Regina for another.
Get the f*** out of my state tournament finals. Thank you, signed everyone.
P.S. That's about as serious as I'm gonna take this. I'll let you have the rest of the thread to take what I've said too seriously.
This is what is wrong with America today. Everyone is a victim and now it's the public school system. Blame the successful and bring them down by impuning there success. For heavens sake it's the parents fault. Just insane.
Your job in the public school realm? LOL
Typical answers. You may want to do some more research before making an argument. For example, are Burlington addresses in the Burlington School District only, were there any sharing agreements, if open enrolled then for how long. While you're at it might as well bring up kids from Morning Sun, too. You also forgot Cole and Luke Erickson from Burlington.
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Kids are switching schools like never before. This isn't 15-20 years ago so it's easy for a lot of parents to move their kids for sports but claim it's something else.
The problem is the metric that puts a gladbrook with grandview is population. So you have to seriously look at what makes up their population and why it's different. Private schools typically have little to 0 IEP kids have little to no free and reduced kids. The populations of the schools are not the same. Wealthier kids from two parent homes tend to fare better in and out of the classroom, so private schools are going to have an advantage buts that's not why they are successful in Iowa.
Gvc is in Des Moines. Throw gladbrooks district boundaries around gvc and see how the population is different than gladbrook reinbecks.
You allow schools from populations of 100k-200k and all of the advantages of facilities in a large town has to offer vs a rural Iowa school district of 2000 it's an unfair mismatch. The fact that gr's school district probably has 50 sr's (20-30% of which are iep and free and reduced) compared to 4K-5k ( just a guess) in a comparable area of Des Moines illustrates the competitive disadvantages rural small schools have.
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See? What'd I say at the end of my last post........This is what is wrong with America today. (If you followed the election at all, you'd know damn well that this is not what is wrong with America...(complaining about select private schools always winning small class state titles). Not even close.) Everyone is a victim and now it's the public school system. (Who said anything about the public school system...........
Your job in the public school realm? (Nope.) LOL (Lol)
Why would I do that, Morning Sun kids can choose where they want to go. Apparently kids from Burlington, West Burlington and Danville can too.
I'm sorry, but if GR can get to state and win games three years in a row then they are not at a huge disadvantage. They've had a great run in multiple sports the past few years and this is a district on the verge of breaking up. I am also from a small public mostly rural school and we won state in every major sport except baseball beating several private schools along the way.
Some have Burlington addresses but live inside the Mediapolis School District. Danville had a sharing agreement previously with Mepo so his brother wrestled there and dad coached there after it ended he open enrolled. Holloway open enrolled before high school.
You are actually proving my point with your last statement. You had to beat several private schools along the way. If there were not advantages wouldn't the percentage of private schools later in the playoffs be closer to the total percentage of private vs public schools. Seems like there is mostly a much higher percentage of private schools compared to the total percentage in later rounds of playoffs in multiple sports.
Having grown up in Iowa and now living north of Chicago, the same argument rages here come playoff time in multiple sports. Here there is a multiplier for private schools, which really hasn't done much to change the outcomes. I've had two sons play sports at the highest class level and they also had trouble competing against private schools.
I've spoken to parents of players who have played at private schools, and they will all tell you the main reason private schools win is they are more disciplined. The coaches demand more and the players are conditioned to give it. Public school coaches will never get the same levels as private schools because they would lose their job if they tried.
I've spoken to parents of players who have played at private schools, and they will all tell you the main reason private schools win is they are more disciplined. The coaches demand more and the players are conditioned to give it. Public school coaches will never get the same levels as private schools because they would lose their job if they tried.
There's also a different amount of private schools in different parts of the state, they're not evenly distributed.
Okay, so Mepo DID benefit from out of district kids from the Burlington area. Thanks.
Do you not think that the wealthy public school districts in the state dont have advantages over the poor districts. This isnt new. IC West, Valley, Bettendorf, etc.. all have advantages over the Ottumwas, Clintons, and Burlingtons of the world.
Holloway (West Burlington) and Drain (Danville) both of which were there before high school. Others live inside Mepo school district. Anyways I wouldn't blame anyone for trying to get out of the Burlington School District. I guess Mepo is the only school who has open enrollment? Anyways I'm fine with it. Why wouldn't a parent want their kids to go to a good academic school who happens to have good athletic program and an involved community. Nothing wrong that, just doing what's best for kids. If other schools don't like it then fix your school and community, don't hate on the successful ones. Want to talk about the kids who have open enrolled out of Mepo? It happens everywhere, it's not just the successful schools and programs.
They've been around a long time. We used to beat them on the regular back in the late 90's, and I'm from a town of 2k. Back then though, people were more apt to choose christian schools for their religious affiliation rather than their athletic or academic superiority to the local public schools. Those same kids probably did start kindergarten together though in many cases.
It is your right to be bitter about it though. Many people are bitter when the private schools succeed. In Virginia, where I live now, private schools have their own division, so they never even play against public schools. No doubt also a response to bitter adults being upset and coming up with conspiracy theories about why the private school is better than their own kid's school.
The kids don't care, they'll play anyone.
All I'm saying is, and you've confirmed this, is Mepo has benefited from kids outside their district. Justify it how ever you want to.
The parents are extremely engaged, proof is they have to pay twice for the children's education.
The bottom line on this subject is, it is unfair for a 1A school located in Des Moines that draws from a population base 1000's of times larger than the vast majority of 1A schools. You can saw the same thing if we are talking 2A or 3A. Many things that people bring up about private schools is awesome...many do it the right way. "Just beat them"...is the go to answer on the other end. Must have a multiplier is the only way to even out the population discrepancy.
Stubbs, although a very good basketball mind, is and has been questionable with his bouncing around and numerous AAU ventures. There is a reason that they are no longer welcome in the Bluegrass Conference...granted they are crushing everyone, but their roster practices are coming into question.
They will go away and be just another 1A school when Stubbs leaves...Des Moines Christian did.
Stubbs, although a very good basketball mind, is and has been questionable with his bouncing around and numerous AAU ventures. There is a reason that they are no longer welcome in the Bluegrass Conference...granted they are crushing everyone, but their roster practices are coming into question.
They will go away and be just another 1A school when Stubbs leaves...Des Moines Christian did.
Public schools can draw from other schools through open enrollment. Public schools also get families who will re-locate to another public school for academics and/or athletics. Private school haters seem to think it only happens in private schools. Open your eyes, it happens everywhere.
DMC is actually a decent 2A program though. Competitive just not elite. Coach they have now is a douche.........but good program. Good, competitive program they've got.
My eyes are open...your reading comprehension is struggling. I said the only problem is 1A schools residing in the city limits of Des Moines compared to the 1A school residing in Janesville (for example)...seem fair to you?
A couple of questions. What is your goal with a multiplier? Assuming a certain answer, can you show us a multiplier that has achieved this goal?
I'm not the one complaining and saying it's unfair. At Mediapolis they play the likes of Holy Trinity (Fort Madison and small towns around) and Burlington Notre Dame in conference and in postseason play Iowa City Regina and Davenport Assumption. Mepo has always welcomed the challenge and get to see how they measure up.
The fact that you can say that should tell you that it's a problem as it currently exists.
That I can ask a couple of questions? That proves the problem? Interesting approach.
no, that you think a multiplier doesn't solve anything. that you believe that there is no advantage Regina has over some rural iowa town. the fact that every kid that has played at regina has been there since kindergarten. The fact that bringing a few kids in to plug holes makes a huge difference in 1a football, kids you don't just find outside of populations of 100k.
we get it, you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
If you don't want a multiplier, how's about public schools get to subtract IEP and free and reduced students?
How about you play in the class of the town you live in? Regina plays 4A. That would be more equitable that what we have in 2017.
we get it, you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
If you don't want a multiplier, how's about public schools get to subtract IEP and free and reduced students?
How about you play in the class of the town you live in? Regina plays 4A. That would be more equitable that what we have in 2017.
The problem with multipliers is that you punish the 90% of bad teams because of the success of the few. Same way in the public schools, you have teams that win all the time, and teams that lose all the time. If you put 4A Burlington in basketball against a good 1A or 2A team, they might still struggle. I'm not a Regina fan, but I don't remember them being any good at all in football until the current (Iowa star player-coaches) came to coach and now every other area kid wants to play for them. Should we punish Linn-Mar and Iowa City West in basketball because they are good almost all of the time? Spirit Lake wins recently with transfers, but maybe that was very legitimate. Do we really know? The situation is complicated. And it is almost never the SCHOOLS that cause the problem, it is the player and his parents who shop for the best opportunity. Now, if tiny GV Christian consistently becomes one-stop shopping, then there is an obvious problem (in a metro area of a million, 85% of whom are Christian). As far as kids and parents hopping around, there is certainly more activity now than ever before, but, by far the biggest field of grasshoppers is in the middle schools and junior highs, where kids start playing on regional travel teams and the parents get to know each other and (lo and behold!) half the travel squad ends up at the same high school! And don't even get me going on "foster," "sponsor," and "adopted" parents. A certain amount of the controversy isn't public or private, it is that some schools are simply blessed with great coaches, great feeder programs and great fan support.
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Life-long NW-Iowan here.
Cheating?, no. A large portion of the constituency nauseatingly arrogant?, yes. Hypocritical school mission?, yes But cheating? No, I don't think so.
A lot, but not all, of the parents are so arrogant that it is beyond unbearable. And don't let the 3rd word in the school name fool you, winning is king at HWC.
But recruiting and giving free-rides to athletes? Give me a break. Do you honestly think that parents of non-basketball or volleyball players who are paying 5K a year will tolerate parents of athletes skating by free? You know these people are Dutch right? And in order to pull a kid from a public school his parents would need to be willing to cough up the 5k unless he has a rich aunt that likes high school basketball. The school board is made up of parents of athletes and non-athletes. Free-rides ain't happening folks. Unless some local businessmen slip the player's old man some cash under the table or something. You'd have to love high school sports way more than me to be doing something like that. As much as I hate to defend them.........that's the truth.
Is a straight multiplier THE answer? NO is my answer...but something has to be done. No person in their right mind can justify that there is competitive balance between a team in rural Keota, Iowa vs a city 1A school in Des Moines, Iowa...no one!
Stubbs is shady....bottom line. From his days in the AAU world to bringing in new players at Grandview this year. Most 1A coaches pray that kids do not move away...not actively getting new kids each year.
As far as your second question....it is a step. I feel that if your school physically resides in a school district that is larger than what your enrollment qualifies for...you should have to move up a class. Regina sits in City High's front yard, Pella Chrisitan, Des Moines Christian, CR Xavier, GV Christian, Ankeny Christian...and so on. These schools can take kids from down the street if they are not getting playing time at their present school. I am not dumb enough to realize this does not happen in the public setting also. But I also know it happens less in that setting than in the private school arena... kids can go from a 4A school to a 1A school by driving 2 more minutes. In rural Iowa there are not that many kids that will benefit from driving from one school to the next.
The real step that should be taken by Boone is to even out the classes. Having 130+ teams in 1A is ridiculous. Either go with the girls format or even out the classes overall.
We can agree to disagree on this....the coach at GV is not on the up and up. People around the AAU environment know that as well as folks from the Bluegrass conference. Looking at the end of the bench during the state tournament something should happen or their little run will be short lived. If new bodies show up from here and there in the next few seasons we will see what the temperature is around 1A basketball. I know they are actively searching for games and having trouble lining them up as of right now. Word travels fast.
When do we start the petition to force Valley to build a new school? That isn't fair either. I watched a class go from 64 kids to 48 in one summer because City High is on its front porch. List all of the advantages that Regina has over City and West. If it is so great why did they come one school board vote from dropping football? Why isnt their enrollment exploding? Start with the advantages over City, West, Clear Creek, Solon, West Branch....
How about we cancel the season and give everyone a participation trophy because high school sports are so unfair.
Here is the question in all of this. What does it really matter? Athletics are an extra curricular activity. They are not the sole purpose for the vast majority of the "students" attending High School. This whole argument really isn't about the students, or the athletes. It's about adults who are so caught up in a sport being played by children that they lose sight of the real reason for schools. Education!
It is an interesting discussion. I graduated from Pella Christian right after its string of titles in the early 90s. I live in Sioux City now. Sioux City East is far more effective in "recruiting" than Pella Christian ever was, if you look at the number of players on its roster over the past several years who began their educational career at West or North.
I can understand the point about small private schools in metropolitan areas. I think that there are probably a few private schools that aggressively recruit. I don't know how you come up with a fair multiplier. I also don't think that a "metropolitan area" multiplier would be fair.
If you look at the BC Moore rankings for 1A, there were a number of bad private schools in metropolitan areas: Heartland Christian ( 2-17), Waterloo Christian ( 0-22), WDM Iowa Christian (9-13), Cedar Valley Christian ( 5-17). None of those schools would have any business playing up a division. But they would be penalized if private schools in a metropolitan area have to play up a class.
If recruiting is the issue, you would need a more nuanced system that penalized schools based upon the number of transfers on the team roster, or that has a longer period of ineligibility for transfers. Even then it would be difficult, because you would need some method to differentiate legitimate instances where a family moves into a different community from a transfer for athletics. But if a school was above the transfer threshold over a certain period of time, they would get bumped up a class of competition.
I can understand the point about small private schools in metropolitan areas. I think that there are probably a few private schools that aggressively recruit. I don't know how you come up with a fair multiplier. I also don't think that a "metropolitan area" multiplier would be fair.
If you look at the BC Moore rankings for 1A, there were a number of bad private schools in metropolitan areas: Heartland Christian ( 2-17), Waterloo Christian ( 0-22), WDM Iowa Christian (9-13), Cedar Valley Christian ( 5-17). None of those schools would have any business playing up a division. But they would be penalized if private schools in a metropolitan area have to play up a class.
If recruiting is the issue, you would need a more nuanced system that penalized schools based upon the number of transfers on the team roster, or that has a longer period of ineligibility for transfers. Even then it would be difficult, because you would need some method to differentiate legitimate instances where a family moves into a different community from a transfer for athletics. But if a school was above the transfer threshold over a certain period of time, they would get bumped up a class of competition.
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