Hidlay

[HerkHawl]

That breakdown is all fine and good but I have been under the impression that:
1. Scholarships are for 5 years, not 4; and
2. You can't take away a scholarship (even during redshirt) unless a kid is released, or leaves the program.

I understand that some kids occasionally "give back" some scholarship money, but you can't sign a kid like Teasdale on the hope that some kid frees up money or leaves.

This is more of question post, than a statement. Can someone clarify?

To my fellow Hawks: Calm the fu*k down! Iowa just signed Spencer Lee, Warner, Cassioppi, Young & Murin, and recently signed Kemerer, Marinelli, and Stoll.

With one graduating senior, where do you want them to get the money? And, as far as upping the offer to Hidlay - they are probably promising him all they can - Sorenson's money!!!!

 

[slushhead]

I can correct a cpl of your assumptions; one, Teske is getting everything second, so is RBY. Plus, are you saying if you redshirt you need and get nothing? Redshirt ot not there are still the same costs inolved.

I'm aware the costs to the student are the same regardless of whether a redshirt is involved, but I'm not sure how costs to the 9.9 are distributed when a guy is not expected to be starting in a given year. The notion that there may be a general team practice of not allowing guys to break into my so-called "top tier" scholly-wise until they have earned it on the mat is specualtion based on info I gleaned from the boards.

While I agree that Teske & RBY should be in that top-tier based on their expected roles and abilities, I'm not sure I understood your comment about them getting "everything". Are you saying they are getting full rides against the 9.9? I'd be surprised if that were the case, but a full ride that consists of part 9.9, part academic, and/or part something else (no, not slush fund promises) would be more believable. Just curious what your info is.

 

[bbwretler]

I'm aware the costs to the student are the same regardless of whether a redshirt is involved, but I'm not sure how costs to the 9.9 are distributed when a guy is not expected to be starting in a given year. The notion that there may be a general team practice of not allowing guys to break into my so-called "top tier" scholly-wise until they have earned it on the mat is specualtion based on info I gleaned from the boards.

While I agree that Teske & RBY should be in that top-tier based on their expected roles and abilities, I'm not sure I understood your comment about them getting "everything". Are you saying they are getting full rides against the 9.9? I'd be surprised if that were the case, but a full ride that consists of part 9.9, part academic, and/or part something else (no, not slush fund promises) would be more believable. Just curious what your info is.

If they aren’t getting full scholarships or something to make up the difference they are not at psu. Info is financial need and reliable informed sources. No doubt here at all. However, if you want to keep them on you “lower tier” fine. Then the monetary difference is coming from someplace else.

 

[hwkwrestlingaddiction]

So anyways, Hidlay....

 

[slushhead]

If they aren’t getting full scholarships or something to make up the difference they are not at psu. Info is financial need and reliable informed sources. No doubt here at all. However, if you want to keep them on you “lower tier” fine. Then the monetary difference is coming from someplace else.

Thanks. I'm speaking almost purely in hypotheticals, so I appreciate the info.

FWIW, I had Teske as upper tier both next year and in 2019-20, and RBY upper tier only '19-20 and beyond (under the "redshirt assumption" for '18/19). Just have no idea how high in the upper tier Teske would be against the 9.9 as a true frosh. Almost certainly not Retherford-level, if I had to bet.

 

[DayHawk18]

So let’s say Nolf is on 25% athletic and 50% academic. With in state tuition, that probably leaves 8k left to make up for it. Say he does two camps for PSU and makes 10k and then does 8-10 clinics/camps at $1500-2k/day (the going rate for NCAA champs). That means he’s going to school for free and making 15k a year to spend as he pleases. So a kid like Nolf ends up costing him .15 of a scholarship (it’s 9.9 out of state scholarships).

He uses camps/clinics to make kids a lot of money and likely does tell kids that if they do as they need to while at PSU, they’ll have money for them in the NLWC. Nothing that he is doing is illegal. It’s just being smart.

 

[Czech Hawk]

Do you believe something is also going on at Ohio St also or just Penn St? I have a feeling after they win it all this year that will be the next conspiracy theory.

Actually no, I don't think anything extra going on there. There is no proof to what I believe is happening at PSU, just reasonable suspician, it maybe nothing. If they are doing everything by the book it's a compliment. You are doing so well recruiting that people have a hard time thinking it is legit. This is America Jack, so I can speculate as much as I would like. I also know nothing will be done until there is proof. If it's legit, nothing will come of it. If it is cheating, almost always someone talks, and it shows itself.

 

[Czech Hawk]

I can dig what you're saying. It's tough to accept the truth. Kinda like you guys refusing to believe that Iowa is just simply getting beat in the recruiting game. Blame it all on the other programs cheating.... it helps you sleep at night.

Nope just one program for now. I think most of us know where we need to step it up to beat other programs as well. This board keep you from sleeping well though? Seems like it does.

 

[JohnBasedow]

So let’s say Nolf is on 25% athletic and 50% academic. With in state tuition, that probably leaves 8k left to make up for it. Say he does two camps for PSU and makes 10k and then does 8-10 clinics/camps at $1500-2k/day (the going rate for NCAA champs). That means he’s going to school for free and making 15k a year to spend as he pleases. So a kid like Nolf ends up costing him .15 of a scholarship (it’s 9.9 out of state scholarships).

He uses camps/clinics to make kids a lot of money and likely does tell kids that if they do as they need to while at PSU, they’ll have money for them in the NLWC. Nothing that he is doing is illegal. It’s just being smart.

.25 in state is calculated the same as .25 out of state. Regardless, your premise stands as in that scenario he would be costing .25 which is next to nothing.

 

[herkcy]

Fellas, do you suppose some of PA/Young Guns kids that ended up at Iowa are familiar with what PSU is "doing" because they were also recruited by PSU & have connections to current PSU wrestlers? Do you think that lends credence to what Tom mentioned in his recent interview?

 

[bbwretler]

Fellas, do you suppose some of PA/Young Guns kids that ended up at Iowa are familiar with what PSU is "doing" because they were also recruited by PSU & have connections to current PSU wrestlers? Do you think that lends credence to what Tom mentioned in his recent interview?

Hypothetically speaking not sure I would really have to think too long or too hard on that! Based on who you have actually talked to of course.

 

[DayHawk18]

.25 in state is calculated the same as .25 out of state. Regardless, your premise stands as in that scenario he would be costing .25 which is next to nothing.

It is my belief that they guys that good for that cheap because they come from families with some money and a desire to be the absolute best and right now Cael is proving that he is the guy to do it (with Tan Tom second).

 

[bbwretler]

It is my belief that they guys that good for that cheap because they come from families with some money and a desire to be the absolute best and right now Cael is proving that he is the guy to do it (with Tan Tom second).

You are saying your really believe that there are that many rich uncles and families who are willing to pay an extra $150,000 and HS wrestlers not wanting what they have earned. I know psu guys like saying it as a defense mechanism on here. If they really belived it they would not have to be so defensive, one would think. It is very much as Tom has said, “there is only so much money to legally pass around”.

 

[DayHawk18]

You are saying your really believe that there are that many rich uncles and families who are willing to pay an extra $150,000 and HS wrestlers not wanting what they have earned. I know psu guys like saying it as a defense mechanism on here. If they really belived it they would not have to be so defensive, one would think. It is very much as Tom has said, “there is only so much money to legally pass around”.

How’d Gable get so many studs for cheap? Guys willing to sit the bench when they could go start at other programs? Winning gets people to do crazy things.

Like I said; they get them academic money, a little athletic money, and camp money. We can do the same exact thing.

 

[JohnBasedow]

I preface this by saying that I have no actual info on how any of the schools allocate their scholarships, but I have heard that tOSU doesn’t spread their scholarships around and that they have 13-14 guys who get the 9.9. There is less room for error this way but it allows for the high level recruits getting what they deserve.

Ok St has a policy that all athletes get in state tuition regardless of residency so that helps them a lot.

PSU.. not going to even both with them.

I have heard Iowa spreads theirs out more and distributes to 16-18 guys which makes it difficult to land the higher tier guys.

 

[bbwretler]

How’d Gable get so many studs for cheap? Guys willing to sit the bench when they could go start at other programs? Winning gets people to do crazy things.

Like I said; they get them academic money, a little athletic money, and camp money. We can do the same exact thing.

Gable got many wrestlers who had won one or no HS state chapionships. Not like he had multiple top rated wrestlers at every or various weights. We can only do what our compliance department will allow. CAN NOT talk to recruites about potential income from possible camps and or the HWC. Can not pay above rates allowed by CD for camps.

 

[DayHawk18]

Gable got many wrestlers who had won one or no HS state chapionships. Not like he had multiple top rated wrestlers at every or various weights. We can only do what our compliance department will allow. CAN NOT talk to recruites about potential income form possible camps and or the HWC. Can not pay above rates allowed by CD for camps.

Like Royce Alger? Who came here for 50% when he had 100% offers? Who came from a family without a pot to piss in. You’re stupid if you think people aren’t willing to go into debt to be apart of a winner. They’ve done it for great programs in our sport since the 70’s

 

[slushhead]

I preface this by saying that I have no actual info on how any of the schools allocate their scholarships, but I have heard that tOSU doesn’t spread their scholarships around and that they have 13-14 guys who get the 9.9. There is less room for error this way but it allows for the high level recruits getting what they deserve.

Ok St has a policy that all athletes get in state tuition regardless of residency so that helps them a lot.

PSU.. not going to even both with them.

I have heard Iowa spreads theirs out more and distributes to 16-18 guys which makes it difficult to land the higher tier guys.

This sort of hypothetical was something I also considered asking about. Where some teams concentrate the bulk of the 9.9 on 6-10 guys, whereas others may spread it out more evenly among 15+. If Iowa is doing the latter, it would explain why they might not be able to go heavy after more than a guy or two each year.

That brings you back to the purported paradigm shift in recruiting. If you are shifting from getting a bunch of tough kids that can be coached up to a core of elite wrestlers, the scholly distribution has to shift along with that. And you might have to identify top-talent opportunities where alternatives to the 9.9 are possible.

 

[lookleft goright]

Like Royce Alger? Who came here for 50% when he had 100% offers? Who came from a family without a pot to piss in. You’re stupid if you think people aren’t willing to go into debt to be apart of a winner. They’ve done it for great programs in our sport since the 70’s

That is a statement with a lot of understanding to it. Guys want to be a part of a winner. PSU and tOSU are doing that.

I spoke to Warner's coach while he was being recruited and he absolutely loved tOSU, but they have a stud there and did not have nay or much money for Warner. He ended up a Hawk and I think he is happy with that decision. (I am not saying you guys were his second choice)

Money is also important. When you can go to OSU for instate tuition and it cost a lot less to go there anyway, that is like having extra scholarships. PSU and tOSU obviously have some big donors and great things going on with their RTC. In my opinion, that puts the Hawks in the number 4 spot in regards to recruiting advantages across the country.

 

[bbwretler]

Like Royce Alger? Who came here for 50% when he had 100% offers? Who came from a family without a pot to piss in. You’re stupid if you think people aren’t willing to go into debt to be apart of a winner. They’ve done it for great programs in our sport since the 70’s

And 50% of instate tuition then was around $3000. 50% of out of state tuition at psu is closer to $18000. Also would depend a lot on what he had been offered by which other schools. I would save your name calling for the psu posters unless you agree with them and how they finance things. It’s one thing for an in state student to take less and another for someone from out of state.

 

[Czech Hawk]

How’d Gable get so many studs for cheap? Guys willing to sit the bench when they could go start at other programs? Winning gets people to do crazy things.

Like I said; they get them academic money, a little athletic money, and camp money. We can do the same exact thing.

It was Gable you fool. Yeah, I know Cael's history *Paul Jenn - he wasn't perfect, and he did well on the international style, but even the Russians feared Gable!!

What Gable did was more with less. Thanks for trying to diminish that fact, but it will not work. Do I think Cael can coach, duh. Do I think you are fool, yep.

 

[DayHawk18]

It was Gable you fool. Yeah, I know Cael's history *Paul Jenn - he wasn't perfect, and he did well on the international style, but even the Russians feared Gable!!

What Gable did was more with less. Thanks for trying to diminish that fact, but it will not work. Do I think Cael can coach, duh. Do I think you are fool, yep.

How am I’m trying to diminish the fact that Gable was the best coach ever?

However, we had a guys like Tom Ryan just show up and walk on when he was on a full ride elsewhere. He didn’t come from a bunch of money. He just wanted to be a champion. He went into debt trying to become a champion. Is it so hard to believe that kids are doing that now for a team and a coach that have won 6 out of the last 7?

 

[Czech Hawk]

How am I’m trying to diminish the fact that Gable was the best coach ever?

However, we had a guys like Tom Ryan just show up and walk on when he was on a full ride elsewhere. He didn’t come from a bunch of money. He just wanted to be a champion. He went into debt trying to become a champion. Is it so hard to believe that kids are doing that now for a team and a coach that have won 6 out of the last 7?

It's not just one guy, at a time... has it ever been this crazy. I am not saying that it can not be true, but don't come at everyone for being skeptical of it. There have been more things than just so many top kids going there. Tom Ryan came from Syracuse... was he an AA there? I ask because I know what he did at Iowa.... Syracuse ... Iowa... Syracuse ... Iowa. These kids are choosing PSU over multiple top wrestling schools. Can it be true, absolutely, can I and others be skeptical, yep. Even if it is the case, Iowa still has hurdles with them and other teams.

 

[west2east]

Actually no, I don't think anything extra going on there. There is no proof to what I believe is happening at PSU, just reasonable suspician, it maybe nothing. If they are doing everything by the book it's a compliment. You are doing so well recruiting that people have a hard time thinking it is legit. This is America Jack, so I can speculate as much as I would like. I also know nothing will be done until there is proof. If it's legit, nothing will come of it. If it is cheating, almost always someone talks, and it shows itself.

I'm not a Penn St fan and my name is not Jack but thanks for the response.

 

[west2east]

And 50% of instate tuition then was around $3000. 50% of out of state tuition at psu is closer to $18000. Also would depend a lot on what he had been offered by which other schools. I would save your name calling for the psu posters unless you agree with them and how they finance things. It’s one thing for an in state student to take less and another for someone from out of state.

Since your in the know with who gets what money could tell us how much money some recent Hawks got.Metcalf,Ramos,Gilman,Ramos and Clark

 

[ih8iast8]

Since your in the know with who gets what money could tell us how much money some recent Hawks got.Metcalf,Ramos,Gilman,Ramos and Clark

They all got 0.83 exactly, pretty standard scholly at Iowa.

 

[FUMBLE-ROOSKY]

I was under the assumption that an academic scholarship counted towards the 9.9 is this not correct.

 

[bbwretler]

And 50% of instate tuition then was around $3000. 50% of out of state tuition at psu is closer to $18000. Also would depend a lot on what he had been offered by which other schools. I would save your name calling for the psu posters unless you agree with them and how they finance things. It’s one thing for an in state student to take less and another for someone from out of state.

I was under the assumption that an academic scholarship counted towards the 9.9 is this not correct.

if the academic scholarship is open to all students, who qualify, equally it would usually not be counted against the 9.9.

 

[nearfall2]

Since your in the know with who gets what money could tell us how much money some recent Hawks got.Metcalf,Ramos,Gilman,Ramos and Clark

Don't forget Ramos.

 

[west2east]

Don't forget Ramos.

I didn't even catch that I was wanting to write Dennis but I guess both being from IL
I wrote Ramos twice

 

[SansSouci]

Let's not bring up Gable when it comes to Iowa's recruiting. Wrestling isn't even CLOSE to it was 25 years ago. Other states train way harder than us. Iowa kids got soft and lazy and TnT need to borrow some of Minny's Xanax and be cool.

Just worthless post about in-state recruiting and how it would help.

If I were to start a college program it's in Florida or Colorado. Colorado wrestlers are stronger than Gorilla Glue#4. Florida boys are crazy tough.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

he does two camps for PSU and makes 10k and then does 8-10 clinics/camps at $1500-2k/day (the going rate for NCAA champs).

What's your source on this?

 

[DayHawk18]

What's your source on this?

The paying NCAA champs that much? My wrestling club here in Denver that I’m an assistant for paid 2k to a multiple time NCAA champ for the day (thankfully he was at the OTC so I went and picked him up and put him up in my apartment.)

The paying them that much for camps? That’s just the rumor going around.

 

[lookleft goright]

They all got 0.83 exactly, pretty standard scholly at Iowa.

I can only speak from hearsay, but according to Mark Johnson, Ramos went to Iowa for 2%. Either I misunderstood or he was almost a walk on. Both are equally possible.

 

[Knight563]

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

View embedded media

That pancake was made with a MIXER!

 

[Scryed]

DayHawk, really appreciated your posts in this thread and agree with the points you bring up.

To go to PSU these days and get a scholarship (even half of one) you need to be a blue chip guy. Cael isn't going to be giving any money beyond maybe 10% to guys who haven't already proven they are among the top of their class nationally. It is easy to accuse people of foul play but Cael really has built up an environment that will bring top guys in for cheap. Now, he won't get every guy that way, but he gets a LOT of them. Being part of a championship team means a lot to some people and I could certainly understand the mentality. I came from a middle class family, and had I been good enough (which I sure as s#it was not) to go at this level I would be willing to spend that much more to go to a school where I can get expert coaching and likely graduate with MULTIPLE rings that I would never wear. Iowa is in great shape - it's easy to look at all the recruits that choose other schools and get upset but there is a tremendous amount of talent in Iowa City right now to be proud of. Lee and Warner are both possible multi-time champs that just signed a year ago. A few were missed this year and it happens but the future is still very bright. Penn State can't start all the guys they have signed and several will transfer out before their careers are over I'm sure. Maybe one or two will come back to Iowa at the end of the day even..

 

[GableEdge]

No one cares about your middle class background, but thanks for the tidbit Oprah.

 

[SPOONER]

Welp. Hidlay announces tomorrow, right?

 

[4girlsanddad]

That pancake was made with a MIXER!

Was that fall even at Super 32s?? According to Flo, he hasn't pinned anybody yet.

Anyways, pancakes work in high school, but they don't work in college. At least, no college wrestler is going to get thrown to their back TWICE in a college match. NOBODY. Ha!!