House Republicans overwhelmingly vote to support a Confederate monument at Arlington National Cemetery

[NorthernHawkeye]

I’ve never once read that slavery was a motivating factor for the revolutionary war on any level.

It was a minor factor, if that, in the Revolutionary War. It was THE factor in the Civil War. That's the point. The rest is just drivel from those trying to justify honoring confederate traitors.

Even before the United States declared its independence in the summer of 1776, slavery had become an issue in the war. In November of 1775 the royal governor of Virginia, the Earl of Dunmore, issued a proclamation in which he offered freedom to enslaved people who would support and fight for the British.

American Revolution | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

 

[RileyHawk]

That might be a good name for a band. "Right Wing Brethren"

There is a band know as the Right Wing Brethren. They also go by MAGA.

 

[RileyHawk]

Even before the United States declared its independence in the summer of 1776, slavery had become an issue in the war. In November of 1775 the royal governor of Virginia, the Earl of Dunmore, issued a proclamation in which he offered freedom to enslaved people who would support and fight for the British.

American Revolution | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

Yes - it was a feeble effort by the British. Very little, if any, impact on the war. A sidenote, at best.

 

[DooBi]

Even before the United States declared its independence in the summer of 1776, slavery had become an issue in the war. In November of 1775 the royal governor of Virginia, the Earl of Dunmore, issued a proclamation in which he offered freedom to enslaved people who would support and fight for the British.

American Revolution | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

What point are you trying to make here? Are you saying we should honor people who fought to the death to protect their right to own people? Just because the revolution happened when there was still slavery in this country? I don't get it.

 

[95Hawk]

What point are you trying to make here? Are you saying we should honor people who fought to the death to protect their right to own people? Just because the revolution happened when there was still slavery in this country? I don't get it.

He’s just asking questions, Doobi. It’s what he does.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

What point are you trying to make here? Are you saying we should honor people who fought to the death to protect their right to own people? Just because the revolution happened when there was still slavery in this country? I don't get it.

Not at all.

I'm just trying to keep you people honest here.

The fact remains that many of our nation's revolutionary war heroes have aspects of their past that are problematic. But men are not infallible and I believe that judging men from centuries ago by today's standards is a fool's folly.

 

[sober_teacher]

Even before the United States declared its independence in the summer of 1776, slavery had become an issue in the war. In November of 1775 the royal governor of Virginia, the Earl of Dunmore, issued a proclamation in which he offered freedom to enslaved people who would support and fight for the British.

American Revolution | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

This barely even registers - the war had effectively begun at this point with first shots fired at concord.

By the time this proclamation came out, it was already happening.

 

[RileyHawk]

Not at all.

I'm just trying to keep you people honest here.

The fact remains that many of our nation's revolutionary war heroes have aspects of their past that are problematic. But men are not infallible and I believe that judging men from centuries ago by today's standards is a fool's folly.

That's never been questioned.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

He’s just asking questions, Doobi. It’s what he does.

No, the Brits were not the good guys.

 

[RileyHawk]

No, the Brits were not the good guys.

Were the confederates?

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

It was about controlling the Colonies and taxing them without giving them any representation. It was not about slavery as the Civil War was which is the whole point of this discussion.

There are several who are trying to both sides the issue of honoring confederates with a claim that the Founding Fathers are equally traitorous. That's absurd and desperate. Which is common among those posters.

It was intertwined. You cant change history. Was not on the surface big issue no different than MAGA ites saying they arent racist and race isnt an issue instead focusing on immigration, taxes and so forth.

 

[RileyHawk]

It was intertwined. You cant change history. Was not on the surface big issue no different than MAGA ites saying they arent racist and race isnt an issue instead focusing on immigration, taxes and so forth.

It's nothing like that.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

When you win you are a patriot. When you lose, you are a traitor. It's the victor who decides.

When the Founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence, they were committing treason. Many people don't understand this. It's actually a very interesting topic, should anyone care to pursue it further.

I think most people understand this. In an alternative universe, where the Confederacy won, the confederates are the patriots.

But we don't live in that alternate universe, do we? We live in the USA: the country that declared independence in 1776, not 1860.

I'm not suggesting that confederate soldiers should be vilified. I realize that most had little choice in the matter. And I don't think regular German soldiers who fought against us in WW2 should be vilified. But, I think it would be wrong for the federal government to build monuments to honor them.

This not a place for moral relativism. The Confederacy was a morally-flawed slave empire. They fought a war to preserve their slave empire, and lost. We don't need to honor them.

 

[Rifler]

No, the Brits were not the good guys.

Were the confederates?

War rule number 1,... The loser never gets to be the good guy.

 

[nelly02]

Are you aware that many of the revolutionary men enslaved other people? Are you aware that they fought against the ruling government who offered freedom to enslaved people if they joined the fight against the rebellion?

Yes I am aware. And I recognize their shortcomings as individuals. But the cause they fought a war for was noble. Again the cause the confederacy was not. Why honor that cause? Again is it really this difficult for you? You think this is some sort of gotcha question and it's not.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

Yes I am aware. And I recognize their shortcomings as individuals. But the cause they fought a war for was noble. Again the cause the confederacy was not. Why honor that cause? Again is it really this difficult for you? You think this is some sort of gotcha question and it's not.

I've been pretty clear on this. I have no issues with states memorializing their war dead. That's distinctly different than honoring a cause.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

It's nothing like that.

We all have our opinions.

 

[tumorboy]

Need to rewrite the Bible. Doesn’t cover the Pharaoh’s noble cause.

 

[DooBi]

Not at all.

I'm just trying to keep you people honest here.

The fact remains that many of our nation's revolutionary war heroes have aspects of their past that are problematic. But men are not infallible and I believe that judging men from centuries ago by today's standards is a fool's folly.

Ok. So, why are we judging the confederates and honoring them. Let's not judge them and don't put up a ****ing memorial for them. Leave them in the past.

 

[Aardvark86]

There are times and places for such distinct memorials, such as Seminary Ridge on the Gettysburg battlefield where numerous state and local unit monuments exist. For my money, a national cemetery, and particularly that one, is not one of those places. Just the dead, their headstones, and that's it, with malice toward none. Indeed, the number of unique memorials within the four walls at Arlington is actually pretty limited. Plant a tree, if you must.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Ok. So, why are we judging the confederates and honoring them. Let's not judge them and don't put up a ****ing memorial for them. Leave them in the past.

Plus, not wanting statues that honor the Confederacy has nothing to do with judgement by today's standards. They were in their own time considered to be violent rebels fighting for the cause of slavery.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

If that were the case then the people of the south really were stupid. I guess the war was good for one thing, thinning the herd of those idiots.

Actually, they would have been much better off governing themselves, the north turned out to be lunatics during that era. At some point in the future their will definitely be another attempt for a group of States to succeed from the Union and for good cause.

 

[TC Nole OX]

The Confederacy was fighting for the freedom to govern themselves. Slavery was going to be finished in the south regardless of how that war turned out.

Finished as in still legally practiced then, afterwards and today

 

[RileyHawk]

We all have our opinions.

Sure. Some of ours are based on important realities whereas yours is made up of grasping for obscure and irrelevant side notes.

 

[RileyHawk]

Actually, they would have been much better off governing themselves, the north turned out to be lunatics during that era. At some point in the future their will definitely be another attempt for a group of States to succeed from the Union and for good cause.

"succeed from the Union" - you can't make this shit up.

I imagine you are correct though - there are still a lot of racist idiots around.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Finished as in still legally practiced then, afterwards and today

No finished as in done! The vast majority of those alleged slaves were more than happy to stay where they were working for the same families. Put down your "woke" books and see things as they really were.

 

[RileyHawk]

No finished as in done! The vast majority of those alleged slaves were more than happy to stay where they were working for the same families. Put down your "woke" books and see things as they really were.

So it's your contention that the slaves didn't really want freedom? That they were just as well of being slaves as they were being freed?

This will be good.

 

[jneffer]

So it's your contention that the slaves didn't really want freedom? That they were just as well of being slaves as they were being freed?

This will be good.

the people who love to pretend they are the sole protectors and advocates of freedom and liberty think that, actually, the slaves were happier in bondage

 

[sabula]

No finished as in done! The vast majority of those alleged slaves were more than happy to stay where they were working for the same families. Put down your "woke" books and see things as they really were.

Alert! Alert! Racist nitwit in the house! Alert!

 

[nelly02]

I've been pretty clear on this. I have no issues with states memorializing their war dead. That's distinctly different than honoring a cause.

🤣

This isn't a state though. This is the Arlington NATIONAL cemetery. Why should a NATIONAL cemetery honor traitors to their nation? Try to actually form an answer and not come back with something you think is a gotcha question of your own that isn't what you think it is. You will only continue to embarrassed yourself.

 

[ft254]

It depends on how it's done imo - there are tasteful ways to honor the fallen Confederate soldiers imo, without also simultaneously portraying them as heroes.

Let the goddam red state toothless hillbillies celebrate their traitor heroes. They don't know any better any will never understand different When the learned champion the idea we've got a real problem.

The Confederate states decided to not be a part of this country so, they revolted against our government. Not the British. Or any other country. It was a revolution against the U.S. Government. This sounds romantic in the Orange Turd's reality, but these are traitors in the 1st degree who have been memorialized primarily for racist reasons in the Jim Crow era. We can never forget, recognize and admit how racist we still are. I see and hear it in the small town I live in constantly. Remarkable since few of the people harboring this hatred likely were ever exposed to issues causing their resentment. It's social conditioning fueled by inherent bigotry. A human pastime.

The Confederate States issue is a part of American history and culture, but it can be recognized without being celebrated.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

Let the goddam red state toothless hillbillies celebrate their traitor heroes. They don't know any better any will never understand different When the learned champion the idea we've got a real problem.

Speaking of hillbillies, where were you schooled?

 

[ft254]

So it's your contention that the slaves didn't really want freedom? That they were just as well of being slaves as they were being freed?

This will be good.

It's the Right's contention, don't you know. Technical training with room and board provided. Just look past the whippings. rapes and lynchings. Nothing to see there.

 

[ft254]

Speaking of hillbillies, where were you schooled?

Only the best of schools Iowa and Missouri could provide.

 

[globalhawk]

War rule number 1,... The loser never gets to be the good guy.

What was the Confederacy fighting for?

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

🤣

This isn't a state though. This is the Arlington NATIONAL cemetery. Why should a NATIONAL cemetery honor traitors to their nation? Try to actually form an answer and not come back with something you think is a gotcha question of your own that isn't what you think it is. You will only continue to embarrassed yourself.

Congress authorized the burial of Confederate troops in Arlington. It was an act of reconciliation. Just let them rest in peace.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Raise your hand if you actually went and looked at "mammy"?


Seems to be a fairly proud depiction of a black solider fighting for the cause from the angle I saw.

 

[NoleATL]

There are Confederate soldiers buried in Arlington. Maybe they should be dug up and dumped somewhere.

I'm not necessarily opposed to this idea. Guantanamo, perhaps?

 

[NoleATL]

What was the Confederacy fighting for?

I have that person on ignore but tell them to read the cornerstone speech in its entirety.

 

[torbee]

Today's GQP:

• Confederacy Good.
• Russia Good.
• Democracy bad.

• Rape fine
• Felonies no big deal