Yeah let's just lie and pretend a sweet 16 once in 13 years is the same thing as a final 4 every 3 years.
How bout now?
- Thread starter LarryMullenJr.
- Start date
Who is pretending what? The guy i quoted said the ultimate of college bball. You interpret that as a sweet 16?
There's an arrogance there against inferior teams that I don't care for.
You may need to watch more mid-major basketball. You’re not going to find any Lebrachas, Sandforts, and Perkins walking the campuses of Bradley and Valpo.
I don’t expect a final four. I’d just like to see a Sweet 16 every now and then and maybe win a conference title once in a blue moon. Fran has peaked at Iowa. If we are fine with middle of the pack finishes and possible tourney invite and then an early exit … then by all means let’s keep Fran because Lord knows there aren’t any better coaches out there who would come to the Big 10 and make $3 million + … Some fans act like Iowa can never be better than it is. We have the fans, facilities, P5 conference, and money … Do the Fran lovers think things are going to change in year 14, 18, or 20? If so… how? He’s won 51% of Big 10 games… Half and half… That’s the best we can do and all we can hope for?
yup. 19-13. That is an NIT season up until a few years ago. May as well open the tourney up to 128 teams.
Frans criteria for recruiting players. !. Are they slow? 2.
Fran needs to change his recruiting strategy. Slow white inconsistent shooters who refuse to play defense is not working.
Mark. Fans have expectations. I don't think anyones expectations, for Iowa Bball, are far fetched. When those expectations aren't met fans get disappointed. It's not like we're in the infancy of the Fran tenure. No one expects us to go undefeated but when you lose to Nebraska at home on senior day and you lose in the first round of the Big10 tourney, it raises questions. Those are just 2 recent examples of many instances throughout his tenure. Should fans not expect a coach in his 13th year to win games similar.
Fran is a lot further from getting a B1G title than Sweet16. The Fran team vs Tennesse was an Overtime away from sweet16.
I think Fran's lack of success in ncaa tourney is more systematic. His point guards have been uniformly incomplete/flawed. Also, not being a good defensive team, Fran's teams can never impose their defensive will and win grind out games.
I guess much of this debate on Fran is poster personality and whether a person values avoiding the Basement as being more important than never being excellent. Since league expansion, The B1G is getting 7-8 bids each year so winning 51% of your B1G games is good enough to get to NCAA tourney most years. That wasn't true in past.
No one has answered my question repeatedly asked here: Why do these “still want him” threads only pop up after losses?
I thought you were talking a Big Ten Tournament title (BTT). Nvm.
I agree a big ten regular season title would be a big deal and finishing high in the standings matters. But it was kind of a strange year in the big ten. If we beat Nebraska people were going to point to us finishing “second” in the big ten and being a “two” seed and somehow think that’s amazing. When in reality teams 13 through 2 in the big ten are all pretty much average to above average teams, with records not far apart.
Because it’s a stupid question that doesn’t deserve to be answered.
Ya pretty sure the goalposts haven’t been moved. Success in the NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal, which we’ve had zero of under Fran. I guess after 13 years, winning the BTT in year 12, with absolutely zero other postseason success, is enough to get a pass from some. Personally I am not 1 of those. Ill keep watching the games and cheering for Iowa because i am loyal to the Hawks, not Fran. Im ready to move on.
What makes you think we have a higher ceiling than being a bubble to 6 seed most seasons and upper half of the Big Ten record finisher?
We haven't been for the last 35 years since Raveling's recruits getting coached by Davis. We have had Davis and 3 other coaches since then.
The history shows you to be incorrect and it shows that your new hire to get us to the "next level" will likely be worse than Fran...
markfromj said:
No one has answered my question repeatedly asked here: Why do these “still want him” threads only pop up after losses?
It’s not a stupid question. It’s just the nature of the beast. As fans, it is difficult to be objective. Point the finger at Fran when we lose; when we win….we’ll, everything is wonderful. You should not blame a coach on one bad season or praise him for one great season. When discussing Fran as a coach, you have to look at his 13 years here.
Has he won the Big10?
Has he been to the post season?
If so, what has he accomplished in post season?
Are his teams fundamentally sound?
Etc. Etc.
When everything about Fran is weighed, I think it’s fair to say, he has been a little better than average. But there has been very little progress in the past 5 years . The program seems as though it lacks direction. In college basketball, recruiting is everything. And our recruiting has been average at best. Also, when I say lack of direction, it seems like we are always deficient either at the guard or post position. There just doesn’t seem to be a plan in plan in place for 2 to 3 years down the road. I think with Fran, we have gotten all we are going to get. No more, no less. Whether that has been good enough to retain him, or bad enough to fire him….well, I don’t have a vote. But, IMO, we need a change of scenery. I also know be very careful what you wish for. Change can be good or bad.
No one has answered my question repeatedly asked here: Why do these “still want him” threads only pop up after losses?
It’s not a stupid question. It’s just the nature of the beast. As fans, it is difficult to be objective. Point the finger at Fran when we lose; when we win….we’ll, everything is wonderful. You should not blame a coach on one bad season or praise him for one great season. When discussing Fran as a coach, you have to look at his 13 years here.
Has he won the Big10?
Has he been to the post season?
If so, what has he accomplished in post season?
Are his teams fundamentally sound?
Etc. Etc.
When everything about Fran is weighed, I think it’s fair to say, he has been a little better than average. But there has been very little progress in the past 5 years . The program seems as though it lacks direction. In college basketball, recruiting is everything. And our recruiting has been average at best. Also, when I say lack of direction, it seems like we are always deficient either at the guard or post position. There just doesn’t seem to be a plan in plan in place for 2 to 3 years down the road. I think with Fran, we have gotten all we are going to get. No more, no less. Whether that has been good enough to retain him, or bad enough to fire him….well, I don’t have a vote. But, IMO, we need a change of scenery. I also know be very careful what you wish for. Change can be good or bad.
Connor is not and has never been an Andre Woolridge, a Ronnie Lester nor any talented PG that can score and play defense. Therein lies our problem. A coach that won't recruit over his kids. Sad but true.
Okay … so in your mind - stay the course and don’t try to become better. Interesting philosophy.
Serious questions for you:
Are you happy/satisfied with the state of the basketball program?
Do you think Iowa basketball can be better?
Fran has been at Iowa 13 years and won 51% of Big 10 games - is that successful in your mind?
Fran has made 0 Sweet 16s heading into year 13. Is that acceptable?
Why do you think Fran should remain our coach and do you believe he is going to elevate the program in Year 14, 18, 20 …? If so, why do you think that?
Post loss is when the Fran haters are most comfortable coming out of the woodwork...
Well to start, people like you on here would lose your collective minds about that being posed after a win. And doesn’t really makes sense to do anyway, “hey good win guys, but time to fire Fran”. Ya stupid.
It may also have something to do with beating the good teams, so no reason to complain about that, but then proceeding to lose to the dogshit bottom feeders. Legit reason to be pissed and is pretty common of Frans teams, losing to inferior teams.
Also because coaches typically don’t get fired until after the season has ended, therefore the chatter isn’t going to ramp up until then. Unless I missed something, threads like this didn’t start popping up until the last couple weeks.
I feel I can cheer for Iowa to win while still accepting the fact Fran isn’t a great coach and likely isn’t taking us where we’d like to and need to get. He’s done a great job getting us back to relevancy, but a poor job getting us past that.
Fran haters? No, it’s called wanting more from the program after 13 years. I don’t hate Fran, but I’ve begun to strongly dislike the style of basketball he coaches. It really is just glorified rec league ball, chuck 3’s and play little to no defense. When you’re hot you’ll likely win and if not it’s a definite loss. If Frans back next year, which i fully expect, ill watch and cheer for the Hawks because Im a hawk fan. But I have zero loyalty to Fran.
So you're a Fran dis-liker then,... It's nothing much more than casual entertainment to me and baseball is just around the corner.
I’ll be sure to start one next time they win.
I do get your point, absolutely. I’ve said before that I’ve been ready for a change for years but support the team regardless and hope they win every game. After a loss the frustration of the repeated issues many of us have with Fran’s style bubble up. Some wins are despite those issues and many are due to Fran’s philosophy to be sure. I am just tired of seeing the fact that his philosophy could evolve to include what happens when they don’t have the ball. 80 points per game and 18-20 wins is entertaining but I’d be thrilled with a chance at 65-70 points per game, 20-23 wins and an occasional second week of the tournament, and an occasional run at a regular season title. We aren’t going to get that with fran.
As it should be for most. But i tend to get more invested in the seasons and just want more out of the program at this point. Like i stated, Fran did a great job getting us back to relevancy but he can’t seem to get us over the hump. Maybe Barta needs to do the same thing he did with Brian Ferentz, give Fran an ultimatum on his defense 😁
I hope for more, but accept what we get,.. Fran runs things in an honest fashion, the players like him, and I have zero concern that this coaching staff will put the program in a negatively controversial position,.. I'm satisfied.
Not suggesting that we don't try to improve. Also not suggesting that a coaching change would result in us not improving.
I'm just very apprehensive about it based on past experience with running out a good coach to get to the "next level" which resulted in Alford and then Lickliter. That was a stretch of the most frustrating Iowa basketball in my lifetime.
Fran can improve. He has NIL now and he has some good pieces. I wish his teams played better defense but they win a lot without it. I do think with better talent his style can win big. He's kind of shown that already.
I will never understand Hawkeye fans and their allegiance to status quo and current coaches. I am and will always be a fan of Iowa sports not a coach.
Cool. How 'bout a Big Ten title then? That drought is twice as long as our Sweet 16 drought.
JFC. This "who else could possibly do better" argument is so old and tired. There are new, highly successful coaches coming up through the ranks all the time. We just sit back and watch other schools have great seasons and post-seasons with them while watching Fran throw tantrums.
I don't know who the right hire would be. It just p*sses me off to no end that Iowa frickin' State, located in the armpit of the Midwest, is able to put together a basketball program that puts ours to shame. Four Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, 2 conference championships and 6 conference tourney championships since Tom Davis left. And that success was spread out over 4 coaches, so it's not like their program fell apart as soon as a coach more successful than Fran left town, which so many fans (such as yourself) are scared to death about.
How 'bout we start with this - Have at least the 2nd best Div 1 basketball coach in the State of Iowa instead of the 3rd or 4th. Baby steps.
Wouldn't surprise me. Ends season with two ugly, ugly losses. 2-6 against the Big Ten's Wednesday tourney teams. Loss to EIU looking more like "who they are." Iowa won't get a shred of the benefit of the doubt from the Committee.
The question of "Who are you going to hire" is completely valid. They've tried to hire the next up and coming coach twice. Twice it has set Iowa basketball back YEARS.
So you might think that argument is old and tired but I think that argument is the absolute most valid thing in the world.
No.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
I would like to see a change at coach. I think Fran has peaked, and the peak is not high enough.
Exactly. No courage to say it after wins it no game or off season. Just emote when they know the crowd is ripe.
Nailed it. Again, back to expectations. We shouldn't lose to inferior teams. No one expects to win every damn game but christ we shouldn't lose to Eastern Illinois, Nebraska and Ohio St.
So with this logic, Fran deserves a lifetime contract? Hey, at least we know what we get year after year. For everytime it didn't work there are instances where it worked marvelously. Christ, we can't for full turtle because of the unknown
I was in the fieldhouse after the Georgetown game, so I remember the Final 4 run. Iowa was one of the two best teams in the country IMO, before Ronnie's injury. They also tied for the B1G championship the year before, when MSU won the national title. I think they had a losing record the year before, in a tough Big Ten. Lute did not sustain that level of success for a period of time, which is how I would define "the good old years".
George was a great recruiter, but did he even have a winning record at Iowa? Dr Tom was a much better bench coach, and had a great first season with George's recruits. He also had a couple more pretty good seasons with Marble, Armstrong and Horton, who George had recruited. They were never better than pretty good after that.
Based on what he did at Iowa you would have to think that Raveling was a great recruiter but terrible in game coach,.. Neither of those statements is particularly correct.
