And how exactly do we do that? Outside of paying the kids and/or their families, how are we going to get the ones that are going to OSU, Alabama, USC, Notre Dame, etc...? Fans always repeat this stuff, but they have no answers. If there was a way to get them here without cheating, you really don't believe our staff would be doing it already? Fail!
How Does Iowa become a Michigan, Ohio St, Alabama?
- Thread starter hawklover69
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Weather is certainly a factor that hurts us, but how much that is true can't really be quantified. I'm talking about the fact that we share a state that produces very little division 1 football talent with another Power 5 program and a very good FCS program. That makes it difficult enough, and impossible to recruit like those programs do year-in and year-out.
Boosters who pay players, side benefits, etc...win a few championships...keep it rolling.
Agree, Bob took the right job but I would of loved to see what he would of done from then till now. Something tells me the recruiting would be much better year in and year out. That would lead to better results on the field based upon what we have seen from Bob's coaching ability over the years.
I'm happy with the job KF has done to date but just wish we had better skill position players so the O didn't have to rely on the D game in and game out. And it will be interesting to see if Iowa goes to a higher level with the next head coach.
Oklahoma had a storied past ... particularly being recognized as a pretty elite program back during the Barry Switzer era. However, they also had a bad decade before Stoops jumped on board. Thus, while Oklahoma had long been a sleeping giant ... Stoops was an excellent coach who was capable of waking the giant. I truly believe that Stoops would have been pretty successful no matter where he coached. Thus, I'd be shocked if he would have flamed out at Iowa. However, I'm also not certain that he would have experienced Oklahoma-level success at Iowa had he been hired at Iowa.
I don't buy location as an excuse because of weather. Shifting demographics may be a factor but I don't buy weather.
How location is a factor is ease of access. It's more time consuming and expensive to get here than many other places, and as was mentioned, you'd feel more isolated in terms of having kif and kin watch. I'd say that weighs the heaviest for recruits when it comes to location.
I agree on the weather thing. OSU, Michigan and PSU are not exactly warm climates but still have tradition. Plus, I live in Tampa, FL and you'd be surprised how many people hate it because they're sick of the heat and want to move north to a cooler climate. Not everyone loves it.
I think it has far more to do with demographics and state population, than anything else. What is Iowa's biggest urban area? Des Moines? We're not talking Cleveland, Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philly, etc.
That said, I don't think Iowa has been all THAT far away at certain times. 2002 was the only KF team I truly thought was legit - maybe the 2009 squad had a shot. If Stanzi doesn't get hurt against NW and KF doesn't take a knee late in the OSU game and play for OT, maybe they play for the title that year.
In my mind, it's always been the offense holding us back. I've often thought about what our football program could be - imagine our usual defense with even a reasonably good offense? Think 2002, the second half of 2008, etc. Unfortunately, that's been rare. Stout D with an offense that could put some points on the board, and we could be scary good. Never gonna happen consistently under KF though.. Our skill position recruiting is lacking, and our coaches don't exactly seem to be offensive masterminds.
We've also got to have coaches that have a nose for finding undervalued talent, and also excel at coaching up these types of players, since we can't just go out and get our pick of blue chip players. There's players who just have low ceilings, but others blossom once they get a little bit of polish. This is where I feel KF has done well over the years. And, Norm was a quality DC.
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Move the state to a warmer climate with ocean access and mountains. tends to drive population increase faster than dark cold and desolate. The teams you mention became those teams long long ago before the 24/7 information overload and so much competition for the recruits. How many recruits you think we could flip from Texas or South Florida or USC? They just have the built in advantage. Fry turned Iowa before there were a lot of cinderellas out there. Now there are more and more. Mississippi and Mississipi State, etc. They still have advantage over Iowa due to where they are, what conference they are in and media coverage. There are a gazillion games on tv every weekend and throughout the week now. Won't even get into the number of bowls now versus 1970s. Has really cheapened them.
And whenever some school pops up that makes most say how in the heck did they get good, I always wonder what kind of shady sh*t might be going on behind the scenes. Like the Ole Miss deal recently or Baylor.
Yeah like Iowa doesn't cheat now at some level and I'm sure the players family's are paying for hotels? Get real Iowa may be at s low level when it comes to playing dirty but they wouldn't be winning. 7 to 8 games a year now by being sweet sissies wake up really
Stoops had the Texas talent right outside his back door, its a apple to oranges comparison.
its nothing but pure spit balling that Stoops would have done better, by the Fire KF crowd.
Is vs ok or any of the other “big dogs” starts with expectations. You never hear anything in Norman (I live there) less than a natty every year. Does it happen every year? No. But that is the expectation and the way we talk. Second is recruiting. This is a developmental program vs those that go after top talent. Stoops and now Lincoln only want those that can play right away or those that will seriously push the starters. Third. Every year I hear OMG we have UNI, Wyoming etc coming here. They are really good. Seriously! Take care of business against these teams. Fourth. Listen to the way you talk. If you only talk about winning the big west then that’s what you’ll achieve. As for cheating. Well, stoops did a great job of taking care of issues. Lots more to what he did than what you read in the Waterloo Courier. He kicked more guys off the team and suspended more than you know of. Lastly, worry about your team. No team is perfect. Everyone has issues. I grew up in Iowa and have followed the Hawks for years. Can they get to the next level? If minds and culture change yes.
Never gonna happen. Too many built in disadvantages on top of Weather, tradition, conference, coach who isn’t interested in being a national power, poor recruiting to skill positions, lack of wr development leading to sub par positional recruiting, location, acedemic standards, southern bias, coasts bias, population with 2 power 5 schools instate, fan tolerance for mediocrity or status quo, fan base just happy to get to any bowl every year, national perception etc etc. I find it interesting that when Iowa was pushing through their undefeated regular season, the media did everything in their power to downplay or destroy the accomplishments, weak schedule being the main comment. Yet 2 of the teams in the final 4 and 4 of final 7 had worst rated schedules then Iowa. Bias. Simple and plain.
Since KF has been close 3-4 times, I don't think it is impossible. Question is, Is what KF has done the best Iowa can do?
Why would you want to become a Michigan? They haven't won a Big 10 title since 2004.
Yeah, but what if we only offered 5 stars? We’d be using national championships for fire wood!
All we need is for Kirk to allow Twitter.
I laugh at the folks that just say "we need to have a winning attitude." Good lord, look at facts.
Population of states
Ohio - 11.6M
Michigan - 9.9M
Pennsylvania - 12.8M
Iowa - 3.1M
And if you further break down the demographics of high school age persons and African-American populations, the numbers are even more against Iowa. Not only does the state of Iowa have a much lower population than those other states, the percent of high school age kids, and African-Americans as the percentage of the population is also lower than those states. Yes, Iowa is adjacent to Illinois and its 12.8M population. But Illinois is also close enough to other big powers that everyone feels like Illinois is their territory.
Iowa has massive disadvantages to overcome with the elite programs in the country. It's not complaining or whining, it's just reality. The most-important factors for most recruits are proximity to home, opportunity to play and winning. The order may be different for some guys, but those are the biggest factors. The state of Ohio produces so much talent every year that the Buckeyes can go without offering a Leshun Daniels or a Sean Welch. If those guys played in Iowa as high schoolers, they would have been among the top 1-2 players in the state of Iowa.
Could Iowa do better in recruiting? Of course. But KF has built a program that allows Iowa -- when its best players are upperclassmen and injuries/schedule are favorable -- to compete with the big boys. By building the program with an emphasis on winning in the trenches, it allows Iowa to compete with elite teams and turn games into a fistfight. Is the formula perfect? No. Do I wish Iowa recruited just a bit better skill position talent to better compete? Of course. It is disappointing to see the success Wisconsin has had this decade compared to Iowa with a similar formula but better skill talent. But even Wisconsin has 5.7M population with a single P5 school in the state, compared to Iowa's 3.1M in a state shared with another P5 school.
Suggesting that the only thing holding back Iowa from being better is trying harder or just wanting to is silly. Nebraska has been demanding that "we are better than this" for nearly 2 decades now, and they are running into the same demographic realities as the rest of the teams in low-population states. The country's demographics are changing, and not to the benefit of schools in the Midwest. It's why Delaney looked to expand to areas like New Jersey and would probably take Texas if given the chance. The B1G needs to expand the footprint for long-term viability, unless the population patterns move away from the south and west to the north. But that isn't likely to happen.
Nebraska won titles with 2 different coaches. Neither of whom demanded a contract giving them a 2.25 million bonus for winning 7 games. Attitude and expectations of self do matter. You're a fool to believe otherwise.
It’s really easy.
Step 1. Invent time machine
Step 2. Keep time machine a secret so that no other school can use it.
Step 3. Go back in time and convince Howard Jones to stay at Iowa for the next few decades and not go to a no football tradition school like USC.
Step 4. Go back in time and convince Evy that being an AD isn’t any fun and that he should continue being a football coach for the next couple of decades.
Step 5. Profit.
Others since I’m a BBall fan too...
Step 6. Go back in time and stop the car accident that took Bucky O’Connor’s life.
Step 7. Go back in time and produce proof that Connie Hawkins was innocent and let him play 3 years for our basketball team. While you’re at it stop the 4 starters from being declared ineligible during the season that year.
Realistically, it will never happen for us. The only slight possibility is if ISU disbanded and merged with us and Kinnick is expanded to 100k seats.
Honestly with the way big time college athletics has been going over the past couple of decades, we’re more likely to fall back to an average or worse program than we are to ascend to blue blood status. Our fan base will not allow cheating and we won’t drop to lower academic standards like SEC schools.
Step 1. Invent time machine
Step 2. Keep time machine a secret so that no other school can use it.
Step 3. Go back in time and convince Howard Jones to stay at Iowa for the next few decades and not go to a no football tradition school like USC.
Step 4. Go back in time and convince Evy that being an AD isn’t any fun and that he should continue being a football coach for the next couple of decades.
Step 5. Profit.
Others since I’m a BBall fan too...
Step 6. Go back in time and stop the car accident that took Bucky O’Connor’s life.
Step 7. Go back in time and produce proof that Connie Hawkins was innocent and let him play 3 years for our basketball team. While you’re at it stop the 4 starters from being declared ineligible during the season that year.
Realistically, it will never happen for us. The only slight possibility is if ISU disbanded and merged with us and Kinnick is expanded to 100k seats.
Honestly with the way big time college athletics has been going over the past couple of decades, we’re more likely to fall back to an average or worse program than we are to ascend to blue blood status. Our fan base will not allow cheating and we won’t drop to lower academic standards like SEC schools.
Stay the course. Win more. Keep winning and use that momentum to win more recruiting battles. Field teams every year that features the players Iowa wants. What-have-you-done-for-me-lately matters a lot more than 'tradition' in today's world.
Make our own tradition and bully our way into the elite. Just a few elite level skill position athletes sprinkled into the mix and some clutch on field play can turn the trick. Never can happen blah blah blah- F that. It may not happen but I choose to believe that it can and will. GO HAWKS!
Make our own tradition and bully our way into the elite. Just a few elite level skill position athletes sprinkled into the mix and some clutch on field play can turn the trick. Never can happen blah blah blah- F that. It may not happen but I choose to believe that it can and will. GO HAWKS!
If global warming heats up tempuratures and puts Iowa on the gulf of mexico that would help.
A more realistic question is how does Iowa become Wisconsin or Michigan State. The blue bloods are the blue bloods and have been for a long time. Our chance was lost during the transition out of the Evy years when he became AD. WI and MSU have enjoyed close to blue blood success, but were built up more recently by focusing on changing their culture tops down. It feels like Iowa has been close to breaking through to their level a few times, but craps the bed for whatever reason at the slightest opportunity at sustained success.
As mentioned previously I think there is hay to be made by recruiting Juco players. If your going to do something no one else has done, you are going to have to do things no one else does. I.e. Iowa State basketball under Hoiberg.
I believe Iowa can become a blueblood and I refuse to be a defeatist like so many on this board.
It would take a head coach who is a lights out recruiter AND a very good coach. He would need a staff with these same qualities. For a man to posses both of those qualities is rare I know. You need a real Salesman who can sell the university, the fan base and his program. It would take great not good recruiting classes backed up year after year. On top of that, to become a true blueblood, you need consistency from year to year and from staff to staff over a long period of time.
I believe this IS possible at Iowa. Through my lifetime, we have had coaches who posses some of the qualities but not the total package.
It would take a head coach who is a lights out recruiter AND a very good coach. He would need a staff with these same qualities. For a man to posses both of those qualities is rare I know. You need a real Salesman who can sell the university, the fan base and his program. It would take great not good recruiting classes backed up year after year. On top of that, to become a true blueblood, you need consistency from year to year and from staff to staff over a long period of time.
I believe this IS possible at Iowa. Through my lifetime, we have had coaches who posses some of the qualities but not the total package.
True. ^^ But it would have to be an area that has 10x, or more, the population that Iowa has too.
Really?
How many ELITE programs are there that are not benefactors of population advantages?
What would it take? A fairy tale
The population is shifting to the warmer weather of the South. Dallas-Fort Worth has approximately 10x the population of the entire state of Iowa. How does Iowa compete with Alabama, Texas,Florida, etc. And get their recruits to want to go play in the ice and cold?
Good luck with that!
How many ELITE programs are there that are not benefactors of population advantages?
What would it take? A fairy tale
The population is shifting to the warmer weather of the South. Dallas-Fort Worth has approximately 10x the population of the entire state of Iowa. How does Iowa compete with Alabama, Texas,Florida, etc. And get their recruits to want to go play in the ice and cold?
Good luck with that!
Pretty much all of this is true, but there is no way there are 30 million people in DFW.
It IS much harder to do at Iowa, but not impossible. But I believe a bit of luck would need to come our way as far as timing.
That luck is for Nebraska, Wisconsin...generally speaking, no other upper midwest programs being good to great at the same time Iowa has a great coach that can corral ALL the good players in our region.
Back when Nebraska made their name (say late 60's to roughly when Fry arrived), name me the other programs in our geographical area that were also great consistently. The answer is nobody. They had a good 15 year head start on everybody in the region and were able to expand their footprint nationally to when Iowa did start having success, it didn't really affect them for roughly 20 years. Then Barry arrived in Madison...hell, Snyder at K-State too...the rest is history.
Remember when Nebraska "built their empire"? Look at the other programs and show me the great program Nebraska had to go up against regionally.
Minnesota? Nope
Wisconsin? Nope
Iowa and Iowa State? Nope
Missouri? Nope
Illinois and NW? Nope
Kansas and K-State? Nope
They were the only one...
That luck is for Nebraska, Wisconsin...generally speaking, no other upper midwest programs being good to great at the same time Iowa has a great coach that can corral ALL the good players in our region.
Back when Nebraska made their name (say late 60's to roughly when Fry arrived), name me the other programs in our geographical area that were also great consistently. The answer is nobody. They had a good 15 year head start on everybody in the region and were able to expand their footprint nationally to when Iowa did start having success, it didn't really affect them for roughly 20 years. Then Barry arrived in Madison...hell, Snyder at K-State too...the rest is history.
Remember when Nebraska "built their empire"? Look at the other programs and show me the great program Nebraska had to go up against regionally.
Minnesota? Nope
Wisconsin? Nope
Iowa and Iowa State? Nope
Missouri? Nope
Illinois and NW? Nope
Kansas and K-State? Nope
They were the only one...
I believe D-FW population is 7+ mill.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/new...rth-population-growth-beaten-by-only-one-city
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/new...rth-population-growth-beaten-by-only-one-city
F#ck it. I don't want to be a bama, OSU or Mich.
I happen to like our brand.
I'd rather be the big 10 bully than the debutante of the East with the best team money can buy.
OP.....are you an Iowa native?
I happen to like our brand.
I'd rather be the big 10 bully than the debutante of the East with the best team money can buy.
OP.....are you an Iowa native?
The best return on money would not be to the Iowa program but to high schools in the area. Solon as a community has put a significant investment into their program over the past forty years and they are now feeding players to the Iowa team. If more schools were supported and developing players in the same matter that homegrown talent would have a greater impact on Iowa than anything else.
Basically the two high caliber programs I can think of that have similar population/geography challenges as Iowa are Wisconsin and Oregon.
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Different conferences but Nebraska basically filled in the great plaines/western midwest power void that was created when Evy moved to be the AD and Minnesota decided to stop caring about football.
I mentioned Howard Jones earlier. Iowa was a juggernaut under him for a portion of the same time that Notre Dame was a juggernaut under Rockne. The Irish were able to replace their coach with a decent one pretty quickly after Rockne died. Iowa wasn’t able to find another great one for about three decades. Imagine what happens if those situations swapped. Or imagine if Jones stayed until 1940 when he coached his last season for USC.
Cheat, money, steroids, Become big and bad, win like hell, get busted and turn into SMU. Or just be happy with who we are, enjoy the journey (frustrating as anything at times) , be hopeful every year. Once in a while we damn near pull it off, someday we will. But, we will never be Bama,OSU, USC, etc.. Just how it is.
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