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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Again, how much less. Magnitude matters. Post numbers or it's argument meaningless.
How far beyond has Iowa fallen?
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Again, how much less. Magnitude matters. Post numbers or it's argument meaningless.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I've heard the Flo show. I don't recall anything concrete beyond "offered more money at Iowa". Post numbers.
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It’s not meaningless. You want numbers like your in the meeting room with the athletes and the coaches. Magnitude does not matter. What matters is all thing being equal or even tilted in Iowa’s favor wrestlers still choose PSU. The farce of PSU over bids Iowa to get the same wrestler is entirely untrue and constructed on boards like this.
Most of the money argument was BEFORE NIL. Make no mistake, there were plenty of years were it mattered in a HUGE way. There is NO WAY the NLWC becomes what it is without the giant difference in funding. Only NOW, with all the things in place does that money mean less....
Now, that doesn't mean that PSU hasn't essentially proven to be the best in damn near all categories. It simply means the disproportionate funding was a major catalyst for what they have now become...
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I'm not disputing that PSU didn't over bid Iowa. But claiming magnitude doesn't matter is just completely untrue. If it was a $10k difference then that's essentially negligible. If it were $100k that'd be substantial and really support the argument that PSU kids don't care about the money and aren't factoring that in to their decision.
Post numbers or stfu IMO. And that's directed at the athletes who make this claim. I said the same about Kadyn Proctor who claimed Iowa offered him more than Alabama. Post the numbers or the comment is meaningless.
NIL will allow PSU to consolidate even more talent. Wrestling has a very steep talent curve. #1 often is way ahead of #4. Heck it is common for #1 to easily outclass #2. So there is a small pool of guys that are competitive at that top level and that are really capable of wrestling beyond college. In the past when scholarships were the only financial incentive there were some of these elite guys that would really value getting a good scholarship. Now that doesn't matter for schools like Iowa and PSU. They can make sure you get that aspect taken care of. Iowa may be able to offer more money to some guys but it isn't life changing money. So some guys that would have taken a bigger scholarship to a less competitive school won't make that choice anymore.
they will transfer to PSU over Iowa for less money ??? Cael only wants the kids who fit his style ?? Cael only had to show the parents his contact list for after college jobs and the parents signed on the dotted line... some of you trolls need to buy yourselves some really good PSU kneepads because kneeling for that long to praise a coach or whatever you do on your knees for the coach is sickening... please don't say it wasn't all about the money when PSU started their plan.... Big money for a new coach, BIG money for facilities... BIGGER soft money for recruits and the camp payment system...it is all about MONEY and the data and the facts don't lie. When you have 10 Million dollars and the 2nd place program has 3 million... I am not a math major but that seems to be about THREE TIMES AS MUCH MONEY.... name one NORMAL person who wouldn't want to TRIPLE his salary !! I can read this Horse Spit all day ....everyday and you won't convince me it didn't start with a HUGE cash infusion and that got the best recruits that brought winning that got the next generation of recruits to want to come there and bought the best coaches and funded the NLWC members to wrestle with the new recruits...MONEY..... MONEY.... and if you don't believe me then go the hell back to the PSU page where you should be anyways.
There was more that went into at least one of those decisions than money, possibly, from what I heard. At least one of those guy’s families didn’t want to deal with Ferrari clan apparently. (I know someone who claims to have talked to their parents.)
Very hard for me to support a Nitwits point of view and as much as I hate their presence on our board, I feel this to be true. I’ve wanted new assistants for some time. This might be a little windy, so I’ll apologize in advance…
Though a great guy, I’ve never understood Morningside as an assistant coach at Iowa, especially considering how painful his matches were to watch as a wrestler. It’s a great gig for him. He can do something he loves, for a program he loves, raise his prize pigs, all from the comfort of “home” and I couldn’t be happier for him. He’s just not the dynamic assistant coach Iowa needs to begin competing with the level of athletes PSU puts on the mat. I feel similar about Telford but admit, I have enjoyed watching the progress of our upper weights this year.
Ultimately, Tom is responsible for the whole & sadly we’re just not seeing improvement from the majority of our athletes and certainly not at the level needed to more consistently compete for championships.
The product has gotten stale and if I’m honest with myself, I’m tired of the same ‘ol, same ‘ol. We clearly need to see changes, at minimum with the assistant coaches but I find myself questioning whether Tom “sees the big picture” well enough to make it happen. He’s also likely to be too close to his assistants to make the changes needed to better the program. Change can be scary.
I’d like to see some younger more dynamic energy in Iowa City. With the new facility in place, if we don’t see significant improvement in the product on the mat, a change needs to be made. Considering Tom’s contract, the folks in charge have time to gauge interest, evaluate staff and hopefully put a “plan B” together.
If the new facilities help recruiting and we see positive changes in the program, we move forward with the head Hawk we all love.
Positive is the name of the game....the Hawks need something positive...somebody needs to have a positive run in the NCAAs....kina like when Tonay Ramos busted on the scene at the NCAAs his sophomore year and was pinning everybody it seemed (as an example).....they need a positive result as it relates to LACK of injuries....it seems that the wrestlers and the Iowa offensive line all have something constantly in common...injuries....the program needs to build positive days on top of each other...stacking good days leads to momentum...and momentum leads to confidence.
Great post. Two points.
Change is scary for most because they leave the comfort zone for uncharted waters. Innovators have no problem with this and that's why there are so few innovators.
I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but when was the last time someone mentioned facilities as the tiebreaker in the final decision? To be honest, most top programs have good enough facilities. Iowa may have the best, but does it get you into the end zone? To me, facilities is a box you check off in your pitch, but it's just one of many boxes. The highest of the high end are often looking beyond college in their evaluation of schools, and the parents certainly are.
The problem with the "Innovators" line is how many of them take the risk and fail. Many see the Elon Musks and Zuckerbergs of the world and don't realize how many there are like them that never make it big or even at all.
When you have nothing to start with, the risk is "worth" it. When you are as established as Iowa, you don't just start hiring unprovens because you want to be an "Innovator". It is VERY SIMPLE, if and that is a big if, they were to make a coaching change the guy will be vetted through and through before they even begin to pull the trigger...
Iowa desperately needs a champ.
Maybe it's Ayala or Woods this year. Or maybe it's Ayala or Arnold next year. But it's gotta be somebody.
Spencer Lee saved Tom's job. That reset the clock. But the clock is ticking again.
Was it boring when Iowa was doing the same thing?
Exactly, the rate that his guys come up big in the biggest matches is not good. Whether it's recruiting, coaching or both it's a fact.
It’s not like PSU can have them all. We need to recruit and coach better. It hasn’t happened. There are a lot of great human beings out there. They may be great coaches. But they aren’t good enough. It’s been proven we will get more of the same if we don’t change it up. It they get 1a, we need to get 1b and coach them up. We are generally not getting 1b and that’s where the Brands’ are weak at, and they won’t fix it. They may not be lazy recruiters, they just don’t have the skills to plan.
I think we missed a big opportunity in getting Kemerer on the staff when he retired. Maybe he wasn’t interested in moving back to Iowa or maybe Tom wasn’t looking for coaches but he would’ve been great to get.
I don't disagree with the second paragraph and wasn't saying Iowa needs to wipe the slate clean with unproven talent. That would be crazy. I think a couple targeted assistants can make a world of difference here.
Wanting to be an innovator and being an innovator are two different things. Just because you have a great idea doesn't mean you won't fail as you point out. You have to have good temperment, hard work, brains, great staff, and a vision that works for your product. All the pieces have to work together.
It’s not about numbers, you implanted yourself into a conversation when I was responding to one of your posters that said it was bullshit and PSU definitely paid more for the transfers. I said that was not true and in fact paid less. One of your own posters said I was correct and he had said texts stating that. Now your screaming numbers or GTFO. You’re passive aggressive in a situation that had nothing to do with you. Again numbers have nothing to do with the fact someone still thinks PSU need to pay way more than Iowa to get wrestlers and it’s the only way it happens. At the end of the day the real truth which no one wants to admit fully is whatever school Cael went to he eventually would have turned into a power if they had adequate backing. Blame slush funds etc. Cael and his staff are innovators and have changed wrestling with style and more importantly mental approach. Keep making fun of dodge ball as another Iowa wrestler get ground to a nub later in their career. This is not a PSU thing this is a Cael thing. He did all this. He would have gotten recruits wherever he was.
PSU is just fortunate he chose them.
There is no doubt that Cael would have done very well at plenty of places but he doesn’t sniff the level he has reached at PSU anywhere else, except maybe tOSU…
2 reasons I’d want kem, 1. Slicker than snot at every weight he wrestled, 2. I’d wanna know exactly how he was able to continue to bulk up and be powerful at every weight. Iowa needs that
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Nice duck. We've replied back and forth multiple times.
Post numbers or the claims are meaningless. Claiming magnitude doesn't matter is pure ignorance.
if that is actually the case, show me the examples. you do realize the money in the HWC is for their expenses and not necessarily to recruit college athletes.
I mean, couldn't we say the same thing about the claims that Penn State paid more? Post numbers or the claims are meaningless. See? I can do that, too.
You have no proof of anything. You're just assuming that someone choosing to go to PSU over Iowa means that they were paid more money.
Plenty of people have settled for less money to take a job vs another job that would pay them more. I've done it, and I'm guessing others here have, too. Shorter commute, one of your friends works there, better benefits, closer to your favorite lunch spot, etc. An endless list of perfectly reasonable explanations other than the number of dollars and cents on your paycheck.
Why is it so difficult to imagine top talent staying away from IC for reasons other than just money?
Maybe the money got things rolling, but that is a miniscule piece now. My question is, how did Iowa fall off? Brands had essentially the same situation as Cael. He had a pipeline to arguably the best club in the country. Not only that, but when those kids came home, they still would stop in and train at the same club. They were never really heaping praise on the program. Nothing negative, but not the praise that PSU wrestlers were giving on their room. Maybe it's a cult lol, but they constantly praise the environment in State College. Those kids at practice looked up at to those guys and took notice. As did their parents. That might be the best recruiting tool.
Can’t disagree with anything you’ve said. Facilities are just one piece of the puzzle, as is a coaches ability to teach technique, get effort from athletes, raise money, get kids to believe in themselves, etc. However, athletes today clearly put some stock in the facilities. This is evident with the “arms race” we’ve seen in D1 football. Money wasted in D1 football facilities on glitz, glamour, bells, whistles, bling, whatever term you want to use to describe it is just plain “stoopid”.
Plans for the new Hawk facility were put in place with the women’s program in mind & well before NIL began ruining amateur athletics.
Don’t kid yourselves, Carl hasn’t turned the Nits around simply because he’s an innovator. I can’t argue he isn’t…as he’s pushed the envelope and “gamed the system” in every conceivable manner and continues to do so to get an edge, however small. Money has played a bit part in this but kids don’t even graduate with their classmates anymore. They finish HS earlier & earlier or home school, so they can move and begin training with programs earlier. Both the programs and kids may benefit but I wonder how a kid will feel, as they look back due to their lack of a more normal HS experience, enjoyed by (former) classmates.
It started with money. Gotta start somewhere. Go home to the money.
The average high school experience is a bit overrated, imo.
What is meaningless? You actually don’t believe that wrestlers chose less money to wrestle at PSU than Iowa? That’s on you not me. Reality is reality. What’s the threshold? 10k 20k 50k so it matters. Keep moving the goalpost. Let me ask Bernie to send me screenshots of why he chose PSU. Stay in your echo chamber that everyone cheats. You remind me of PSU fans when we lose a football recruit to OSU. Oh it’s the money or they cheat. No OSU puts people in the league and prepares them better.
That is like saying Gable could not have had his success anywhere but Iowa. Gable made Iowa - not the other way around and Cael has made PSU what it is. Not the other way around. The Hawks were no where near a powerhouse in the years preceding Kurdelmeier (sp?) and look what they became.
I think Cael could have gone to any ACC school or Pac 10 or Big 12 school - gotten adequate funding and then, after getting the ball rolling, he would have gotten the crazy big time support he now gets.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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No, I'm not assuming that. I believe that Iowa offered more. I'm just highly skeptical that the difference in magnitude was super significant. So claiming you went to the place that paid less builds a story and gives a certain message about both the programs and yourself (morally prioritizing things above money), but if the financial difference was negligible, it defeats the point.
Sharing numbers would provide a lot of clarity on truly how irrelevant the financial offers were to the decision being made.
This isn't rocket science. But of course the highly biased PSU fans will emphasize how irrelevant the financial component was without having any insight or giving any insight on numbers.
I just won't take those claims that money wasn't a considerable factor seriously until it's backed with numbers.
Although I don't necessarily disagree and I'm not really aiming this at you, if having one champ makes that big of a difference to who our head coach is, then our standards have drastically fallen. We should have multiple champs and be disappointed we didn't have 10. If we're not sniffing that, we should absolutely be looking for a change at the top.
“We need to be a lot better than where we’re ranked right now. If we’re third in one poll (W.I.N. Magazine), we need to be two spots higher. If we’re fourth in the other poll (USA Today/NWCA/Intermat) we need to be three spots higher. That’s the mindset of the program. We have to be competing for titles across the weight class spectrum. Then we’ll be competing for a title as a team. The challenge is the same every year. The battle is in-state. The battle is Big Ten and regional. The battle is national. The battle is planet Earth. If they find life out there, then the battle will be universal."
-Tom Brands (11/7/2007)
From personal experience, my son (who was no where near an elite level recruit) took less money to go to a program that had him siting on the bench for the first 2 years. The other offer was for more money and the coach told him that he would be expected to start the first year (which he would have).
Money was not much of a factor and this is for a kid who has no Olympic aspirations. Throw in Olympic aspirations and money would have had almost no effect on his choice.
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