How far beyond has Iowa fallen?

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

What is meaningless? You actually don’t believe that wrestlers chose less money to wrestle at PSU than Iowa? That’s on you not me. Reality is reality. What’s the threshold? 10k 20k 50k so it matters. Keep moving the goalpost. Let me ask Bernie to send me screenshots of why he chose PSU. Stay in your echo chamber that everyone cheats. You remind me of PSU fans when we lose a football recruit to OSU. Oh it’s the money or they cheat. No OSU puts people in the league and prepares them better.

You lack reading comprehension and you attribute claims to me that I've never made.

I haven't disputed that PSU paid nagao or truax less than other school's offers. I just don't take the claim very seriously when I have no idea what the magnitude of the offers were. If the difference was $10k, then that's negligible. They can claim the moral value of not valuing money as a factor in their decision, and PSU looks better for it as well. If the difference was $100k it's substantially more meaningful and significant and a real story.

I haven't claimed that PSU is cheating. I have absolutely zero information or evidence that they are. That doesn't mean it's wrong to inquire about facts.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

From personal experience, my son (who was no where near an elite level recruit) took less money to go to a program that had him siting on the bench for the first 2 years. The other offer was for more money and the coach told him that he would be expected to start the first year (which he would have).
Money was not much of a factor and this is for a kid who has no Olympic aspirations. Throw in Olympic aspirations and money would have had almost no effect on his choice.

Feel free to post numbers. How much was your son offered at each school? That's critical info when evaluating truly how significant or insignificant the finances are in the decision making.

 

[bourbon n blues]

That is like saying Gable could not have had his success anywhere but Iowa. Gable made Iowa - not the other way around and Cael has made PSU what it is. Not the other way around. The Hawks were no where near a powerhouse in the years preceding Kurdelmeier (sp?) and look what they became.

I think Cael could have gone to any ACC school or Pac 10 or Big 12 school - gotten adequate funding and then, after getting the ball rolling, he would have gotten the crazy big time support he now gets.

I think PSU was the prime piece of real estate he was looking at, but yeah.

 

[Rocky_Smith]

Why is it so difficult to imagine top talent staying away from IC for reasons other than just money?

I read the book, “how minds change” by David McRaney, it was nearly life changing. He says you can’t change anyone’s mind by sharing facts. Gives the example of people who believe the world is flat- no amount of “facts” will change their mind- they will just come up with “alternate facts.”

This is where we are at here. Nagao says in an interview he took less money to go to PSU, and even that info, straight from the athlete’s mouth, is not good enough.

The belief is that PSU wins because they pay more money. No amount of arguing will change it. But if you truly believe that and it’s not true, you’ll never get better. This is also where we are, here.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Although I don't necessarily disagree and I'm not really aiming this at you, if having one champ makes that big of a difference to who our head coach is, then our standards have drastically fallen. We should have multiple champs and be disappointed we didn't have 10. If we're not sniffing that, we should absolutely be looking for a change at the top.

“We need to be a lot better than where we’re ranked right now. If we’re third in one poll (W.I.N. Magazine), we need to be two spots higher. If we’re fourth in the other poll (USA Today/NWCA/Intermat) we need to be three spots higher. That’s the mindset of the program. We have to be competing for titles across the weight class spectrum. Then we’ll be competing for a title as a team. The challenge is the same every year. The battle is in-state. The battle is Big Ten and regional. The battle is national. The battle is planet Earth. If they find life out there, then the battle will be universal."
-Tom Brands (11/7/2007)

Great quote.

The biggest disappointment to me are the reports that Iowa coaching has been absent from the biggest national high school tournaments that all the other top coaches are at. I have no idea if this is accurate or how much our coaches are on the road recruiting. I also imagine it'd be a lot harder for the Iowa coaches to attend big national tournaments (or even state tournaments) on the east coast than PSU or even Ohio State and Michigan.

Does anyone have any insight on this? What efforts have our coaches been putting in being a physical presence at these tournaments?

The story of how one of the Brands drove through the night to PA to recruit Kemerer was awesome and a catalyst moment for Iowa and lead to a bunch of PA recruits coming to Iowa and resulting in a national championship. Are they still putting in that work? What has changed since 7-10 years ago when it seemed that Iowa had closed the gap with recruiting and now we're going the other direction?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I read the book, “how minds change” by David McRaney, it was nearly life changing. He says you can’t change anyone’s mind by sharing facts. Gives the example of people who believe the world is flat- no amount of “facts” will change their mind- they will just come up with “alternate facts.”

This is where we are at here. Nagao says in an interview he took less money to go to PSU, and even that info, straight from the athlete’s mouth, is not good enough.

The belief is that PSU wins because they pay more money. No amount of arguing will change it. But if you truly believe that and it’s not true, you’ll never get better. This is also where we are, here.

This couldn't be further from the truth and it shows you haven't read the thread or aren't comprehending it. I'm a facts oriented individual. I've said multiple times that I'm not disputing that PSU offered Nagao less than Iowa. I'm emphasizing that to me, that claim (or even fact) is meaningless without knowing the magnitude. If Iowa offered him $100k more and he still chose PSU that highlights an even bigger issue with the Iowa program. If the difference was $10k, that's negligible and could be used to still factually claim, PSU offered less, but it dramatically changes the interpretation and underlying reason for picking one school over another.

The fact that you and others refuse to acknowledge this just shows you're not engaging in this discussion honestly. It's confirmation bias.

Give numbers or the point is meaningless.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Can’t disagree with anything you’ve said. Facilities are just one piece of the puzzle, as is a coaches ability to teach technique, get effort from athletes, raise money, get kids to believe in themselves, etc. However, athletes today clearly put some stock in the facilities. This is evident with the “arms race” we’ve seen in D1 football. Money wasted in D1 football facilities on glitz, glamour, bells, whistles, bling, whatever term you want to use to describe it is just plain “stoopid”.

Plans for the new Hawk facility were put in place with the women’s program in mind & well before NIL began ruining amateur athletics.

Don’t kid yourselves, Carl hasn’t turned the Nits around simply because he’s an innovator. I can’t argue he isn’t…as he’s pushed the envelope and “gamed the system” in every conceivable manner and continues to do so to get an edge, however small. Money has played a bit part in this but kids don’t even graduate with their classmates anymore. They finish HS earlier & earlier or home school, so they can move and begin training with programs earlier. Both the programs and kids may benefit but I wonder how a kid will feel, as they look back due to their lack of a more normal HS experience, enjoyed by (former) classmates.

It's a paradigm shift and if you miss that train you end up way behind. It's being a victim of extraordinary success. Why change when things are doing so well and by the time you realize they're not it's too late to make those changes quickly and with minimal disruption. I've seen it happen in many industries one being the firearms industry. Glock changes the game, the industry resists, they get a huge market share and now everyone has a polymer pistol. Most rifle and shotgun stocks are now composites too.

Sanderson has the vision and ability to go with his street credibility to set up the ideal situation. He really had nothing to lose with the somewhat disappointing finishes PSU had recently. In Sunderland's last year the Lions finished 17th fwiw. PSU had nothing to lose. The problem for Iowa is they need the next all time great coach to climb back on top and who knows who that is?

 

[bourbon n blues]

Great quote.

The biggest disappointment to me are the reports that Iowa coaching has been absent from the biggest national high school tournaments that all the other top coaches are at. I have no idea if this is accurate or how much our coaches are on the road recruiting. I also imagine it'd be a lot harder for the Iowa coaches to attend big national tournaments (or even state tournaments) on the east coast than PSU or even Ohio State and Michigan.

Does anyone have any insight on this? What efforts have our coaches been putting in being a physical presence at these tournaments?

The story of how one of the Brands drove through the night to PA to recruit Kemerer was awesome and a catalyst moment for Iowa and lead to a bunch of PA recruits coming to Iowa and resulting in a national championship. Are they still putting in that work? What has changed since 7-10 years ago when it seemed that Iowa had closed the gap with recruiting and now we're going the other direction?

Sanderson and his staff never stopped working. They keep at it but are very low key and matter of fact. Bartlett's dad told us their experience when Beau was recruited and Cael makes a very solid case without being pushy. He wanted Beau to go to an Ivy school for the education and Cael had a few guys talk to him on his visit. All were room guys who went on to Ivy schools and were doing fantastic at either school or their jobs. He works for their guys and will go the extra mile for them after PSU and has a lot of connections and gets that across to recruits in a low pressure way.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Sanderson and his staff never stopped working. They keep at it but are very low key and matter of fact. Bartlett's dad told us their experience when Beau was recruited and Cael makes a very solid case without being pushy. He wanted Beau to go to an Ivy school for the education and Cael had a few guys talk to him on his visit. All were room guys who went on to Ivy schools and were doing fantastic at either school or their jobs. He works for their guys and will go the extra mile for them after PSU and has a lot of connections and gets that across to recruits in a low pressure way.

I didn't ask about Cael. This forum isn't a recruiting platform to propagandize why Cael is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

It's not debatable at this point that he's the best coach/program in the country right now. You don't need to bring that up in response to a comment inquiring what Iowa coaches are doing for recruiting these days.

Comments like this are why hawk fans get annoyed with how many PSU fans post here and feel the need to get validation and gloat about how amazing their program is. You guys are the champs right now. Enjoy it. No need to be a pest.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I read the book, “how minds change” by David McRaney, it was nearly life changing. He says you can’t change anyone’s mind by sharing facts. Gives the example of people who believe the world is flat- no amount of “facts” will change their mind- they will just come up with “alternate facts.”

This is where we are at here. Nagao says in an interview he took less money to go to PSU, and even that info, straight from the athlete’s mouth, is not good enough.

The belief is that PSU wins because they pay more money. No amount of arguing will change it. But if you truly believe that and it’s not true, you’ll never get better. This is also where we are, here.

I talked to his fiancée's mom at the finals, they were sitting in front of us. She mentioned Minnesota was like one happy family with the guys all hanging out together off the mats. PSU was different in that they all seemed to be doing different things but he adapted. Beau's dad said it's a very self motivated program in that all the services and training opportunities are there for them to take advantage of but they will not force you into things like seeing the sports psychologist for one example.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I didn't ask about Cael. This forum isn't a recruiting platform to propagandize why Cael is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

It's not debatable at this point that he's the best coach/program in the country right now. You don't need to bring that up in response to a comment inquiring what Iowa coaches are doing for recruiting these days.

Comments like this are why hawk fans get annoyed with how many PSU fans post here and feel the need to get validation and gloat about how amazing their program is. You guys are the champs right now. Enjoy it. No need to be a pest.

Well you want to argue about things like sports psychology etc. You're going to get comments about things like that. Ask yourself not what you need to do better but how you should be doing things better? I've talked to some of the parents and they reinforced what I've been thinking.

Much of this is mindset which you seem to want to downplay.

 

[T8KUDWN]

2 reasons I’d want kem, 1. Slicker than snot at every weight he wrestled, 2. I’d wanna know exactly how he was able to continue to bulk up and be powerful at every weight. Iowa needs that

Wouldn't he have bulked up and became more powerful under the University of Iowa strength program?

 

[MSU158]

That is like saying Gable could not have had his success anywhere but Iowa. Gable made Iowa - not the other way around and Cael has made PSU what it is. Not the other way around. The Hawks were no where near a powerhouse in the years preceding Kurdelmeier (sp?) and look what they became.

I think Cael could have gone to any ACC school or Pac 10 or Big 12 school - gotten adequate funding and then, after getting the ball rolling, he would have gotten the crazy big time support he now gets.

Sorry, but we couldn’t disagree more. If that were true he never would have left ISU. PSU gave him all the raw materials he needed to create a dynasty. I am sorry, but it’s inarguable.

Now, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t created the best coaching staff in DI by a large margin. He absolutely has. But, there is no way he has the resources, support and the location necessary to build what he has at PSU.

Only a handful of schools out there could come remotely close. As far as having truly comparable success goes, I 100% stand firm that tOSU is probably the ONLY other school that checks all the boxes and that INCLUDES Iowa…

 

[Muscles1989]

Wouldn't he have bulked up and became more powerful under the University of Iowa strength program?

You’d think so but how come nobody else there seems to ever grow.

 

[T8KUDWN]

I read the book, “how minds change” by David McRaney, it was nearly life changing. He says you can’t change anyone’s mind by sharing facts. Gives the example of people who believe the world is flat- no amount of “facts” will change their mind- they will just come up with “alternate facts.”

This is where we are at here. Nagao says in an interview he took less money to go to PSU, and even that info, straight from the athlete’s mouth, is not good enough.

The belief is that PSU wins because they pay more money. No amount of arguing will change it. But if you truly believe that and it’s not true, you’ll never get better. This is also where we are, here.

The money factors in when bringing in athletes to the nlwc.
The money factors in with taking little scholarship money and the nlwc takes care of college debt, later on.
Money does factor in.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I talked to his fiancée's mom at the finals, they were sitting in front of us. She mentioned Minnesota was like one happy family with the guys all hanging out together off the mats. PSU was different in that they all seemed to be doing different things but he adapted. Beau's dad said it's a very self motivated program in that all the services and training opportunities are there for them to take advantage of but they will not force you into things like seeing the sports psychologist for one example.

You have to be one of the best examples of living vicariously through the PSU wrestlers that I've seen. Posting on the Iowa fan forum about how amazing PSU is. Name dropping that you talked to x or y parent or relative.

Hate to break it to you man, but those accomplishments and successes don't belong to you. The reality is that you're a nobody fan who spends significant time gloating on an unmoderated opposing team's message board.

And you speak as if you know all the answers. "Winning is a mindset". Cringe.

 

[vhsalum]

Wouldn't he have bulked up and became more powerful under the University of Iowa strength program?

Correct.

And our S&C ain't that bad. Every d1 guy I've ever talked to said that Iowa guys feel strong as all hell. One comment that really stuck with me - "Gilman felt twice as strong as NATO"

@wahlberg - watch the Austin-Spencer doc from Flo. Just listening to Tom and Terry talk about training, how they're going to push you harder than anyone, and listening to Spence and Austin say how tired they are after practices - was that your experience?

And hearing it from Tom and Terry even now, even after everything they've "learned" ? Man. they're never going to get it. And that's where Carl is light years a head of almost every coach in the nation. He's not concerned with making it hard for just hard's sake - get better and wrestling and actually ENJOY that process.

le sigh.

 

[vhsalum]

You’d think so but how come nobody else there seems to ever grow.

Team needs dictate this in general. And in the case of, say, Jacob Warner - Tom and Terry ain't gonna make you lift. At least not like that.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Talent eval is not the issue here duder.

Cael rarely misses because his coaching/training system works extremely well. Tom lacks consistency because his coaching/training system doesn't work as well as Cael's.

This is easily shown in examples such as Ayala beats Davis in the dual and Davis wins Big Tens or Rathjen beats Kasak in the dual and Kasak outplaces him at Big Tens or Woods owned Bartlett in the past and now Bartlett seems to have surpassed him or Kemmerer went from beating Starocci to getting surpassed by him or why the same happened with Eierman and Lee, etc., etc., etc.

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many on this board to see this or admit this or whatever, but it's staring us in the face with this common theme repeated and recycled again and again and again.

^This right here. I completely agree with your take. It's the coaching, the culture and the system that is making the difference IMO. Throw in a little talent evaluation as well.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Correct.

And our S&C ain't that bad. Every d1 guy I've ever talked to said that Iowa guys feel strong as all hell. One comment that really stuck with me - "Gilman felt twice as strong as NATO"

@wahlberg - watch the Austin-Spencer doc from Flo. Just listening to Tom and Terry talk about training, how they're going to push you harder than anyone, and listening to Spence and Austin say how tired they are after practices - was that your experience?

And hearing it from Tom and Terry even now, even after everything they've "learned" ? Man. they're never going to get it. And that's where Carl is light years a head of almost every coach in the nation. He's not concerned with making it hard for just hard's sake - get better and wrestling and actually ENJOY that process.

le sigh.

You don't think psu wrestlers are tired after practice? I realize every practice is different, but never leave tired??
I don't care how smart and creative you think Karl is, it's pretty hard to not be somewhat tired after wrestling practice.

 

[Pennstate1985]

From personal experience, my son (who was no where near an elite level recruit) took less money to go to a program that had him siting on the bench for the first 2 years. The other offer was for more money and the coach told him that he would be expected to start the first year (which he would have).
Money was not much of a factor and this is for a kid who has no Olympic aspirations. Throw in Olympic aspirations and money would have had almost no effect on his choice.

If I may ask, what were your son's reason(s) for taking less?

 

[kegan]

I talked to his fiancée's mom at the finals, they were sitting in front of us. She mentioned Minnesota was like one happy family with the guys all hanging out together off the mats. PSU was different in that they all seemed to be doing different things but he adapted. Beau's dad said it's a very self motivated program in that all the services and training opportunities are there for them to take advantage of but they will not force you into things like seeing the sports psychologist for one example.

That's interesting. The autonomy could be empowering for the kids. I'm not sure this would be as effective with recruits that aren't already the best in the nation (and have the right mindset). But his system is obviously working. Another thing about the PSU teams.. they always seem super fresh throughout tournaments. Perhaps the individual programs help with not over training?

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

It’s a lot harder when those years get further and further in the review mirror.

I only scrolled through the remainder of Page 1, but didn't see anyone call out this WOB. 😜


Regarding the thread topic, even I (as a casual) know there is something seriously wrong with the program when Iowa Wrestling finishes outside the top 3 in the conference tournament.

 

[goethe14]

they will transfer to PSU over Iowa for less money ??? Cael only wants the kids who fit his style ?? Cael only had to show the parents his contact list for after college jobs and the parents signed on the dotted line... some of you trolls need to buy yourselves some really good PSU kneepads because kneeling for that long to praise a coach or whatever you do on your knees for the coach is sickening... please don't say it wasn't all about the money when PSU started their plan.... Big money for a new coach, BIG money for facilities... BIGGER soft money for recruits and the camp payment system...it is all about MONEY and the data and the facts don't lie. When you have 10 Million dollars and the 2nd place program has 3 million... I am not a math major but that seems to be about THREE TIMES AS MUCH MONEY.... name one NORMAL person who wouldn't want to TRIPLE his salary !! I can read this Horse Spit all day ....everyday and you won't convince me it didn't start with a HUGE cash infusion and that got the best recruits that brought winning that got the next generation of recruits to want to come there and bought the best coaches and funded the NLWC members to wrestle with the new recruits...MONEY..... MONEY.... and if you don't believe me then go the hell back to the PSU page where you should be anyways.

 

[Fan In Black]

someone very close to the program told a radio show that PSU doubled the NIL offer on the 2 xfers.

if that's not true ( might not be ) I will never believe anything I ever hear about Iowa wrestling going forward.

 

[Pennstate1985]

The story of how one of the Brands drove through the night to PA to recruit Kemerer was awesome and a catalyst moment for Iowa and lead to a bunch of PA recruits coming to Iowa and resulting in a national championship. Are they still putting in that work? What has changed since 7-10 years ago when it seemed that Iowa had closed the gap with recruiting and now we're going the other direction?

As a 60 year old, I feel qualified to answer your question. When I was 30, I full of spit and fire but wasted a lot of energy on unimportant stuff, so wasn't super efficient. When I was 40, I still had the spit and fire, but also could get from Pt A to Pt B a lot better and faster. I did my best work during this time. At 50, I had less spit and fire but I was still maintaining my edge in methodology. At 60, I'm definitely slowing down and I no longer innovate. Just passing time.

Brands was 45 ten years ago. He's nearly 56 now. It happens to all of us. You want to enjoy a little bit of what your hard work got you and slowly but surely it takes your edge off. You call one less strategy meeting. You make one less recruiting trip. Weekend with the grandkids. I still know what needs to be done but I'm less motivated. I bet Tom has or is getting there too. Look at JRob near the end. Look at John Smith(age 58). That's why you hire a 30 year old head coach.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

If I may ask, what were your son's reason(s) for taking less?

And more importantly, how much less $?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

As a 60 year old, I feel qualified to answer your question. When I was 30, I full of spit and fire but wasted a lot of energy on unimportant stuff, so wasn't super efficient. When I was 40, I still had the spit and fire, but also could get from Pt A to Pt B a lot better and faster. I did my best work during this time. At 50, I had less spit and fire but I was still maintaining my edge in methodology. At 60, I'm definitely slowing down and I no longer innovate. Just passing time.

Brands was 45 ten years ago. He's nearly 56 now. It happens to all of us. You want to enjoy a little bit of what your hard work got you and slowly but surely it takes your edge off. You call one less strategy meeting. You make one less recruiting trip. Weekend with the grandkids. I still know what needs to be done but I'm less motivated. I bet Tom has or is getting there too. Look at JRob near the end. Look at John Smith(age 58). That's why you hire a 30 year old head coach.

I agree with this.

But looking ahead at who I think could be the caliber of coach to actually disrupt PSU - all of the names that get thrown out aren't even coaching as assistants right now. Most of them are still competing in their late twenties/early-mid thirties.

Guys like Dake, Burroughs, Taylor, Nolf, Kyle Snyder. They might not all turn out to be great coaches but I'd bet on one of them more than any guys currently coaching as assistants in D1 programs. Also, most of those guys have made loads of money from competing, endorsements, or their own kids coaching programs and/or have young kids and might not be interested in D1 coaching. The financial aspect of the sport has changed a lot from when Cael's generation started coaching. Now, the most elite wrestlers can have made a career's worth of wealth by the time they're done competing.

Have any of these guys mentioned that they're interested in pursuing D1 coaching after retiring from competition?

If I were PSU, I'd do whatever's necessary to lock in David Taylor on the coaching staff. I see him as the heir apparent and letting him go to another program would be a mistake.

 

[goethe14]

This couldn't be further from the truth and it shows you haven't read the thread or aren't comprehending it. I'm a facts oriented individual. I've said multiple times that I'm not disputing that PSU offered Nagao less than Iowa. I'm emphasizing that to me, that claim (or even fact) is meaningless without knowing the magnitude. If Iowa offered him $100k more and he still chose PSU that highlights an even bigger issue with the Iowa program. If the difference was $10k, that's negligible and could be used to still factually claim, PSU offered less, but it dramatically changes the interpretation and underlying reason for picking one school over another.

The fact that you and others refuse to acknowledge this just shows you're not engaging in this discussion honestly. It's confirmation bias.

Give numbers or the point is meaningless.

You responded to me about comprehension like the poster above. It’s you that lacks comprehension. Bernie Truax received a sizable offer from Iowa and didn’t ever consider it because it was Iowa who doesn't produce anyone over 133. Do you want to take credit for your transfers that got worse over time? The issue is not Money. If some of these wrestlers didn’t end up at PSU they were going some where else and not Iowa. What can’t you understand? The issue is the development at Iowa of anyone that weighs more than 33. It’s not about Money. There is a stench about the state of Iowa and actually developing championship wrestler. Who is a top upper weight wrestler going to roll with at Iowa who will make him better? Who will push him to championship levels? So whether they took 50k less or more that doesn’t change anything into why they are choosing. Believe all you want about why. This is going no where and we will agree to disagree. My belief is the opinion of the greater wrestling community especially of the elite wrestlers is not nearly as high of Iowa as you would hope it is or believe it is.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

You responded to me about comprehension like the poster above. It’s you that lacks comprehension. Bernie Truax received a sizable offer from Iowa and didn’t ever consider it because it was Iowa who doesn't produce anyone over 133. Do you want to take credit for your transfers that got worse over time? The issue is not Money. If some of these wrestlers didn’t end up at PSU they were going some where else and not Iowa. What can’t you understand? The issue is the development at Iowa of anyone that weighs more than 33. It’s not about Money. There is a stench about the state of Iowa and actually developing championship wrestler. Who is a top upper weight wrestler going to roll with at Iowa who will make him better? Who will push him to championship levels? So whether they took 50k less or more that doesn’t change anything into why they are choosing. Believe all you want about why. This is going no where and we will agree to disagree. My belief is the opinion of the greater wrestling community especially of the elite wrestlers is not nearly as high of Iowa as you would hope it is or believe it is.

Keep ducking. You keep regurgitating the same nonsense while avoiding the Crux.

You're a 🤡.

 

[T8KUDWN]

As a 60 year old, I feel qualified to answer your question. When I was 30, I full of spit and fire but wasted a lot of energy on unimportant stuff, so wasn't super efficient. When I was 40, I still had the spit and fire, but also could get from Pt A to Pt B a lot better and faster. I did my best work during this time. At 50, I had less spit and fire but I was still maintaining my edge in methodology. At 60, I'm definitely slowing down and I no longer innovate. Just passing time.

Brands was 45 ten years ago. He's nearly 56 now. It happens to all of us. You want to enjoy a little bit of what your hard work got you and slowly but surely it takes your edge off. You call one less strategy meeting. You make one less recruiting trip. Weekend with the grandkids. I still know what needs to be done but I'm less motivated. I bet Tom has or is getting there too. Look at JRob near the end. Look at John Smith(age 58). That's why you hire a 30 year old head coach.

So, you're basically saying with age you have gotten lazy.
Tom Brands is far from lazy or unmotivated.
I don't believe John Smith is either.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I agree with this.

But looking ahead at who I think could be the caliber of coach to actually disrupt PSU - all of the names that get thrown out aren't even coaching as assistants right now. Most of them are still competing in their late twenties/early-mid thirties.

Guys like Dake, Burroughs, Taylor, Nolf, Kyle Snyder. They might not all turn out to be great coaches but I'd bet on one of them more than any guys currently coaching as assistants in D1 programs. Also, most of those guys have made loads of money from competing, endorsements, or their own kids coaching programs and/or have young kids and might not be interested in D1 coaching. The financial aspect of the sport has changed a lot from when Cael's generation started coaching. Now, the most elite wrestlers can have made a career's worth of wealth by the time they're done competing.

Have any of these guys mentioned that they're interested in pursuing D1 coaching after retiring from competition?

If I were PSU, I'd do whatever's necessary to lock in David Taylor on the coaching staff. I see him as the heir apparent and letting him go to another program would be a mistake.

Fortunately or unfortunately, money has a way of de-motivating people to take on new and difficult challenges. I agree that all the money flushing through the sport at the Olympic level may demotivate a DT from going the normal route into coaching. Most of us think he is the next PSU coach, but he already has a great setup. Lots of money. A family and farm. A very successful company. He may want the challenge but what if he doesn't? He is of the generation that craves work/life balance so who knows.

Of the guys you mentioned, I'd go with Nolf. Extremely personable and obviously talented. I also think he would be the hungriest to succeed. Has a degree in kinesiology.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Like the first time they met. Get real man. Did you watch Zack wrestle even once this year??

 

[Pennstate1985]

So, you're basically saying with age you have gotten lazy.
Tom Brands is far from lazy or unmotivated.
I don't believe John Smith is either.

That is obviously your interpretation of my post. I used to work 70 hour weeks. I now work 50 hour weeks. I wasn't calling anyone lazy or unmotivated either. What I am saying is that 56 and 58 year olds in general ARE less productive than their 45 year old counterparts for a variety of reasons. Do we have to debate that? When I was 45, I could spend a full day mentally crushing a problem in my business. I can't do that now, and I don't know anyone near my age that would say they can. Are you denying that fact of life?

 

[Bob_Anderson]

What a dumb post. Messenbrink isn't huge because he only wrestles at 165 lbs? You realize "huge" is in relation to their opponents. Messenbrink is huge compared to Caliendo.

You sitting two rows behind his parents means **** all. I saw the match in high definition on TV. Both yesterday and in the dual. Messenbrink is bigger and stronger than Caliendo.

He's longer, he has a stronger core/hips. He absolutely horsed Caliendo and not just because he out classes him technically.

Beau looks stronger than Real. Haines looks stronger and bigger than Franek.

Kerk is one of the strongest wrestlers in D1 this year. Why in the **** are you comparing Kerk to D1 football players? We're comparing him to his wrestling opponents in his weight class. He's bigger and stronger than the majority of his opponents.

Messenbrink is a 157lber wrestling up a weight. He's anything but huge

 

[LIV4GOD]

I read the book, “how minds change” by David McRaney, it was nearly life changing. He says you can’t change anyone’s mind by sharing facts. Gives the example of people who believe the world is flat- no amount of “facts” will change their mind- they will just come up with “alternate facts.”

Wow, what an overstatement. Yeah, you can't change some people's minds because they don't care what the facts are. They have an agenda they are serving. But to say you can't change anyone's mind by sharing facts is the opposite of a fact.

I have changed countless people's minds with the facts. But, they wanted the truth. Sometimes very difficult truths.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Messenbrink is a 157lber wrestling up a weight. He's anything but huge

Holy cow, yet another new (lurker) account popping up. Starting to wonder if it's all the same person. Similar posting style. Clearly not an Iowa fan and randomly showing up to white knight for PSU on the Iowa forum.

Messenbrink is a full 165 by this point in the season. PSU has shown they have the best strength and conditioning program in the country and are more than capable of having guys move up or down weights and still wrestle big for their weight class.

Messenbrink is taller/lengthier than Caliendo and has demonstrated greater hip/core strength. In modern era of wrestling, length and hip strength have been shown to be superior qualities than bicep and shoulder strength.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Messenbrink is taller/longer wingspan which means more leverage.

He also appears to have better core/hip strength. Caliendo might have biceps and shoulders, but hips/core is more important for wrestling. Especially with modern wrestling.

A fat woman could weight 165. She'd get horsed by any male wrestler. This should go without saying...

You love arguing with yourself. Keep moving those goalposts

 

[Hawkgma]

He's telling the truth. And I've seen the texts. They took less to go to PSU and "win"

Come on man. I am sure if the money was close that kids would chose PSU over IOWA but i don't believe one second you have seen texts that would prove this. If it was a huge difference than they would pick Iowa. No one is turning down 15-20k (made up number) a semester more just for a chance to wrestle in PSU.

I agree with you on every other point though about PSU and the way they train and how far ahead their staff is than ours. The amount of Money running through the program at PSU is unmatched. Is that why they are better than everyone else... It's only one of the main reasons.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

You love arguing with yourself. Keep moving those goalposts

Goalpost hasn't moved. I've had the same opinion that Messenbrink is bigger and stronger and clearly physically horsed Caliendo since the dual meet. He's better technically as well no doubt, but multiple positions be demonstrated superior physical strength and leverage.

Why post on 5 different alt accounts? You sound just like the other recent new PSU accounts that have popped up this week.