How to piss PSU fans off big time!

[rossel 33]

It used to be a great, neutral site to post. You could have a somewhat level headed debate without "fanatics" twisting everything you say. You could get reliable information about most programs. Now a majority of it is a PSU lovefest and an attempted blasting of anyone that doesn't paint them in a perfect God-like light. When I first started posting, I wasn't anti-PSU in any way. In fact, I still cheer for certain PSU wrestlers. But, the "fanatics" over there have become so ridiculous that THIS post happened.....

-------

I agree.

I used to post there more frequently. Never put down a PSU (or other school's wrestlers) and always tried to be respectful, but it's like spitting in the wind.

There are a handful of posters (Hurricane, Lemonpie and cletus are the worst) who often hijack a thread to somehow bash Iowa, Brands, Ramos, Metcalf, McD, Gable, its fans etc. They are PSU fans, which is almost irrelevant. They seem more devoted to being anti-Iowa than anything else. It's more like a cesspool there sometimes.

 

[21Guns]

MSU158: Jammenz is on line one, and you are steppin on his toes!

 

[21Guns]

It used to be a great, neutral site to post. You could have a somewhat level headed debate without "fanatics" twisting everything you say. You could get reliable information about most programs. Now a majority of it is a PSU lovefest and an attempted blasting of anyone that doesn't paint them in a perfect God-like light. When I first started posting, I wasn't anti-PSU in any way. In fact, I still cheer for certain PSU wrestlers. But, the "fanatics" over there have become so ridiculous that THIS post happened.....

The only posts I've ever seen from you are anti PSU and Cael, hahahaha.

I have NEVER posted on any PSU sites. Not once.

You have yet to actually say who is your team. At this point, all anyone knows about you is how much you hate Penn State and Cael Sanderson.

Frankly, that shows weakness.

 

[matter7172]

----
Though without Andrew Long being brought in with no preconditions, Cael likely wouldn't have one one of those titles.

But then I doubt that Cael lost any sleep over that decision.

This is one of the more interesting canards of the Iowa anti-Cael canon. It borders on defamation. Has anyone who posted it had any support for the accusation? Was someone privy to the conversations and commitments made between Cael and Andrew? Was someone in the room when they had those conversations? I'm guessing not.

I've had one long conversation with Cael in my life (which is probably more than most posters here can say) but have followed his career since he started wrestling at Iowa State. I don't have the impression that what he is alleged to have done with Long's case is true in any way, shape or form. It has as much substance as positions that Cael was never going to beat Iowa or win national championships or that he would never win championships after Taylor and Ruth left the program or ....

As far as I can tell, it's just trolling - and in a very irresponsible and classless way.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

This is one of the more interesting canards of the Iowa anti-Cael canon. It borders on defamation. Has anyone who posted it had any support for the accusation? Was someone privy to the conversations and commitments made between Cael and Andrew? Was someone in the room when they had those conversations? I'm guessing not.

I've had one long conversation with Cael in my life (which is probably more than most posters here can say) but have followed his career since he started wrestling at Iowa State. I don't have the impression that what he is alleged to have done with Long's case is true in any way, shape or form. It has as much substance as positions that Cael was never going to beat Iowa or win national championships or that he would never win championships after Taylor and Ruth left the program or ....

As far as I can tell, it's just trolling - and in a very irresponsible and classless way.

Well if you cant figure it out, no one is going to explain it to you. I hope Cael sues someone for defamation so we cant put every one involved in Long transfer in court under oath on a stand, pull phone contact records, find out the agreement they had.. etc.

Please lets go down this road!

 

[matter7172]

Well if you cant figure it out, no one is going to explain it to you. I hope Cael sues someone for defamation so we cant put every one involved in Long transfer in court under oath on a stand, pull phone contact records, find out the agreement they had.. etc.

Please lets go down this road!

So, in other words, you don't have any factual basis for your position, but you are hoping to find some?

 

[pablow]

This is one of the more interesting canards of the Iowa anti-Cael canon. It borders on defamation. Has anyone who posted it had any support for the accusation? Was someone privy to the conversations and commitments made between Cael and Andrew? Was someone in the room when they had those conversations? I'm guessing not.

I've had one long conversation with Cael in my life (which is probably more than most posters here can say) but have followed his career since he started wrestling at Iowa State. I don't have the impression that what he is alleged to have done with Long's case is true in any way, shape or form. It has as much substance as positions that Cael was never going to beat Iowa or win national championships or that he would never win championships after Taylor and Ruth left the program or ....

As far as I can tell, it's just trolling - and in a very irresponsible and classless way.

So you're saying nobody knows if, in fact, Cael told Andrew that he'd have to stop being an alcohol and drug addict if he came to Happy Valley. Maybe this committment was even reduced to a written contract for all we know. My God, that would shed a whole new light on the episode.

 

[FineMaterial]

Well if you cant figure it out, no one is going to explain it to you. I hope Cael sues someone for defamation so we cant put every one involved in Long transfer in court under oath on a stand, pull phone contact records, find out the agreement they had.. etc.

Please lets go down this road!

Here are the facts: Andrew long went to Cael and said he really likes rape, and he thought there would be a lot more rape opportunities and better looking women at Penn State. Could he please take him to Penn State? What else could it have been (in your infantile fantasies)?

 

[hawkssox1]

Why even read it, if you don't like it? I found it funny. If you don't, to each their own.

Go away tool chest.

 

[rossel 33]

This is one of the more interesting canards of the Iowa anti-Cael canon. It borders on defamation. Has anyone who posted it had any support for the accusation? Was someone privy to the conversations and commitments made between Cael and Andrew? Was someone in the room when they had those conversations? I'm guessing not.

I've had one long conversation with Cael in my life (which is probably more than most posters here can say) but have followed his career since he started wrestling at Iowa State. I don't have the impression that what he is alleged to have done with Long's case is true in any way, shape or form. It has as much substance as positions that Cael was never going to beat Iowa or win national championships or that he would never win championships after Taylor and Ruth left the program or ....

As far as I can tell, it's just trolling - and in a very irresponsible and classless way.

-------
I'll admit I'm not privy to every conversation and commitment between Cael and Andrew. After your "one long conversation" with Cael, I doubt that you know much of anything regarding Long, except that you are a PSU fan.

Here is what I and most every knows. Long was booted off ISU's team after several incidents of drunken, violent behavior. He was not allowed to return without seeking professional help. Rather than get that help, Long accepted Cael's invitation to wrestle for him at PSU. He did, and placed 3rd at the ncaa, allowing PSU to win the team title.

Cael commited no crime, but he used bad judgement, perhaps wishful thinking, that Andrew would behave, without professional help.

Well we all know it didn't work out all that well. Yes, PSU won their title, then Andrew went out and commited rape.

That is no canard. Quit whitewashing this sordid incident.

 

[Golic55]

-------
I'll admit I'm not privy to every conversation and commitment between Cael and Andrew. After your "one long conversation" with Cael, I doubt that you know much of anything regarding Long, except that you are a PSU fan.

Here is what I and most every knows. Long was booted off ISU's team after several incidents of drunken, violent behavior. He was not allowed to return without seeking professional help. Rather than get that help, Long accepted Cael's invitation to wrestle for him at PSU. He did, and placed 3rd at the ncaa, allowing PSU to win the team title.

Cael commited no crime, but he used bad judgement, perhaps wishful thinking, that Andrew would behave, without professional help.

Well we all know it didn't work out all that well. Yes, PSU won their title, then Andrew went out and commited rape.

That is no canard. Quit whitewashing this sordid incident.

Not sordid, just unwise.
Sordid is like habitually choking in March.

 

[dunkej01]

Does the interweb know if Cael accepted Long without any preconditions?

Does the interweb know if Long attended any dependency programs/classes while in Happy Valley?

Does the interweb know if Long had to meet with PSU/Wrestling staff weekly to review/discuss his struggles and how his general well being was off the mat?

There are several on here that know Long personally and have talked to him during and after his time in State College, so Im guessing the answer to this can be given and without bias due to anonymity.

 

[MSU158]

Go away tool chest.

I have to admit, the way you phrased that was so elegant and convincing that I truly considered doing so.

I especially liked how you were able to convey your position in only 4 words. It only took 2 words for you to tell me what to do and then only 2 more to tell me how you feel about me.

However, if you wanted me to leave, it should have been only 3 words. After careful examination, you must have subconsciously wanted me to stay. You called me a tool chest instead of just a tool. Someone as concise as you wouldn't make the mistake of adding an extra word. Since a tool chest is truly important and can provide someone with what he needs to finish nearly any task, I must stay here to help you when needed.

sincerely,

Your reliable and handy Tool Chest!

 

[texas twister]

MSU158 - generally like your input and discussion of wrestling, but that is just trolling and uncalled for. Not surprised they didn't respond positively. No need to stoop to that level.

Agreed.

 

[johnstownsteel]

I have to admit, the way you phrased that was so elegant and convincing that I truly considered doing so.

I especially liked how you were able to convey your position in only 4 words. It only took 2 words for you to tell me what to do and then only 2 more to tell me how you feel about me.

However, if you wanted me to leave, it should have been only 3 words. After careful examination, you must have subconsciously wanted me to stay. You called me a tool chest instead of just a tool. Someone as concise as you wouldn't make the mistake of adding an extra word. Since a tool chest is truly important and can provide someone with what he needs to finish nearly any task, I must stay here to help you when needed.

sincerely,

Your reliable and handy Tool Chest!

That's some funny shit!

 

[Azchief32]

I know a guy who was an AA type for ISU in the 90s and he was not happy with the way the Bobby D/Cael thing went down. At the time, I didn't ask him for the inside baseball on it because I wasn't posting and didn't really care about ISU inner politics. The real question is whether Cael lobbied for the spot or was ISU so scared of losing a certifiable big name and repeating a Gable. In our sport, it would be like making the Babe to the Yankees sale twice. I'm guessing the latter and no matter what, a break up is going to be difficult on one side.

PSU fans don't understand that Iowa fans think Cael's ultimate act of leaving was a betrayal to his alma mater after all the above was accomplished to give Cael the job. Cael wasn't having that much fun at ISU because it's a Hawkeye state. He made the right move but let's not pretend that there wasn't some cold-blooded calculation on his part.

As for Andrew Long, I have no clue what the deal on that was but the here are the facts:

1. He was troubled and had a lot of problems at ISU despite his success. He had three alcohol related offenses while in Ames to include assault.

2. KJ was in the process of having Andrew go through some type of rehab/treatment but would not let him back on the team until he did the process. Sidebar: Good on KJ for not taking a win at all costs measure.

"We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

3. Long didn't want to go through this process and saw a chance to start over with Cael at PSU and wrestle immediately. He left ISU in Dec 2010 and wrestled for PSU in January.

4. Did Cael have a similar process in place for Long? If so, why wrestle him immediately. For an alcoholic with no tools to deal with pressure, a transfer to a new environment, team, and academic setting is lot to take on for a troubled kid.

5. He finished third at NCAA's going 5-1 with two pins. PSU wins the title.

6. He was off the team eight months later, in jail, charged with rape.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. From the outside, one can surmise that Cael rightly believed he needed one more high level in place to win a title, saw his chance in Long, and took it. For PSU fans that don't believe Cael is that competitive, keep in mind that he chose to redshirt three top guys because last year was a "maybe" while this year was a pretty much in terms of getting a title.

For those against, is it really Cael's problem what a man decides to do in the off season? Cael cannot be with his wrestlers 24/7. Trust me, you can preach and grab a young man by the ear to counseling but its up to them to internalize it and implement those measures themselves.

 

[hawkssox1]

I know a guy who was an AA type for ISU in the 90s and he was not happy with the way the Bobby D/Cael thing went down. At the time, I didn't ask him for the inside baseball on it because I wasn't posting and didn't really care about ISU inner politics. The real question is whether Cael lobbied for the spot or was ISU so scared of losing a certifiable big name and repeating a Gable. In our sport, it would be like making the Babe to the Yankees sale twice. I'm guessing the latter and no matter what, a break up is going to be difficult on one side.

PSU fans don't understand that Iowa fans think Cael's ultimate act of leaving was a betrayal to his alma mater after all the above was accomplished to give Cael the job. Cael wasn't having that much fun at ISU because it's a Hawkeye state. He made the right move but let's not pretend that there wasn't some cold-blooded calculation on his part.

As for Andrew Long, I have no clue what the deal on that was but the here are the facts:

1. He was troubled and had a lot of problems at ISU despite his success. He had three alcohol related offenses while in Ames to include assault.

2. KJ was in the process of having Andrew go through some type of rehab/treatment but would not let him back on the team until he did the process. Sidebar: Good on KJ for not taking a win at all costs measure.

"We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

3. Long didn't want to go through this process and saw a chance to start over with Cael at PSU and wrestle immediately. He left ISU in Dec 2010 and wrestled for PSU in January.

4. Did Cael have a similar process in place for Long? If so, why wrestle him immediately. For an alcoholic with no tools to deal with pressure, a transfer to a new environment, team, and academic setting is lot to take on for a troubled kid.

5. He finished third at NCAA's going 5-1 with two pins. PSU wins the title.

6. He was off the team eight months later, in jail, charged with rape.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. From the outside, one can surmise that Cael rightly believed he needed one more high level in place to win a title, saw his chance in Long, and took it. For PSU fans that don't believe Cael is that competitive, keep in mind that he chose to redshirt three top guys because last year was a "maybe" while this year was a pretty much in terms of getting a title.

For those against, is it really Cael's problem what a man decides to do in the off season? Cael cannot be with his wrestlers 24/7. Trust me, you can preach and grab a young man by the ear to counseling but its up to them to internalize it and implement those measures themselves.

You can lead a horse to water.................................................................................

 

[johnstownsteel]

I know a guy who was an AA type for ISU in the 90s and he was not happy with the way the Bobby D/Cael thing went down. At the time, I didn't ask him for the inside baseball on it because I wasn't posting and didn't really care about ISU inner politics. The real question is whether Cael lobbied for the spot or was ISU so scared of losing a certifiable big name and repeating a Gable. In our sport, it would be like making the Babe to the Yankees sale twice. I'm guessing the latter and no matter what, a break up is going to be difficult on one side.

PSU fans don't understand that Iowa fans think Cael's ultimate act of leaving was a betrayal to his alma mater after all the above was accomplished to give Cael the job. Cael wasn't having that much fun at ISU because it's a Hawkeye state. He made the right move but let's not pretend that there wasn't some cold-blooded calculation on his part.

I'm still amazed and confused that people out there have a problem with Cael leaving ISU no matter what the circumstances were behind his departure. True, ISU is his alma mater but the position he held was a JOB. Let me repeat that, he held a job there, nothing more... nothing less. Why do people feel he owed the University anything? Why do you all feel he had an obligation to stay there? It makes absolutely no sense to me... it just doesn't.

Every one of you reading this, let me tell you something, you are all replaceable. Every single one of you. No matter what job you hold, where you are employed, no matter how long you've been there, you can and most likely will eventually be replaced. You probably don't believe that, you most likely feel you are the glue that holds everything together and there is no way they'd ever ask you to leave. Guess what? You are wrong...

You're fools if you think Cael should stay loyal to any place that employs him. Cael looked out for #1 (himself) and that's exactly what he should have done. Employers don't look out for your wife, your kids, no... you do. They pretty much only care about you producing. That's pretty much it. I mean they care that you do things cleanly, don't make the company or in this case the university look bad but you're number priority to them is to produce.

No place of employment remains loyal to you forever. If you don't produce, you will be gone. No place employment puts you over the company or organization... None! What the hell is wrong with you people that feel Cael should put his employer above himself? Above his family? That's just moronic. Coaches are replaceable just like each of you are. Just remember that..

 

[matter7172]

I know a guy who was an AA type for ISU in the 90s and he was not happy with the way the Bobby D/Cael thing went down. At the time, I didn't ask him for the inside baseball on it because I wasn't posting and didn't really care about ISU inner politics. The real question is whether Cael lobbied for the spot or was ISU so scared of losing a certifiable big name and repeating a Gable. In our sport, it would be like making the Babe to the Yankees sale twice. I'm guessing the latter and no matter what, a break up is going to be difficult on one side.

PSU fans don't understand that Iowa fans think Cael's ultimate act of leaving was a betrayal to his alma mater after all the above was accomplished to give Cael the job. Cael wasn't having that much fun at ISU because it's a Hawkeye state. He made the right move but let's not pretend that there wasn't some cold-blooded calculation on his part.

As for Andrew Long, I have no clue what the deal on that was but the here are the facts:

1. He was troubled and had a lot of problems at ISU despite his success. He had three alcohol related offenses while in Ames to include assault.

2. KJ was in the process of having Andrew go through some type of rehab/treatment but would not let him back on the team until he did the process. Sidebar: Good on KJ for not taking a win at all costs measure.

"We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

3. Long didn't want to go through this process and saw a chance to start over with Cael at PSU and wrestle immediately. He left ISU in Dec 2010 and wrestled for PSU in January.

4. Did Cael have a similar process in place for Long? If so, why wrestle him immediately. For an alcoholic with no tools to deal with pressure, a transfer to a new environment, team, and academic setting is lot to take on for a troubled kid.

5. He finished third at NCAA's going 5-1 with two pins. PSU wins the title.

6. He was off the team eight months later, in jail, charged with rape.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. From the outside, one can surmise that Cael rightly believed he needed one more high level in place to win a title, saw his chance in Long, and took it. For PSU fans that don't believe Cael is that competitive, keep in mind that he chose to redshirt three top guys because last year was a "maybe" while this year was a pretty much in terms of getting a title.

For those against, is it really Cael's problem what a man decides to do in the off season? Cael cannot be with his wrestlers 24/7. Trust me, you can preach and grab a young man by the ear to counseling but its up to them to internalize it and implement those measures themselves.

I hate to quote at length, but there is so much there.

1. People "surmise" what happened. They don't know. And because there was so much anti-Cael sentiment that predated his even leaving ISU among the Iowa crowd, what do they surmise. The absolute worst - even if there is no basis for their beliefs. Fact is, there are no facts known about what Cael required or didn't require of Long at PSU. If there were, I'm sure someone from this board would have been able to point it out.

2. If you read KJ's statement in your "2" above, there is no indication that Long was *not* taking steps to address his personal issues at Penn State. Quite the opposite. KJ said "Andrew decided he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. ..." Sounds like it was believed that Long *would* be addressing those issues while at PSU. KJ didn't say "hey, this is a bad idea" and, if I'm going to surmise, I'm going to surmise that KJ and Cael talked about the possible transfer before it happened. Especially since KJ said "(w)e will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues."

3. Your "3" is pure speculation.

4. Your "4" is misplaced, but underlines that you don't have knowledge of the actual circumstances and that you are, indeed, speculating.

5. The real fact is Long made it through the wrestling season and remainder of the second semester without incident as far as I know. The incident that led to his arrest occurred during the summer. So your concerns about asking too much from Long seem to be misplaced. His "bad act" occurred when he was not in school, not in the middle of a wrestling season, etc. So maybe, just maybe, there was, in fact, a good support system in place for him during the spring semester of 2011. Or is that too hard to wrap one's head around?

The whole Iowa getting super-offended because Cael left Iowa's instate rival is probably the hardest thing for people outside your (not you personally, the larger "you") little bubble to understand. Yeah, Cael chose to leave ISU for what he perceived as a better opportunity. ISU was able to replace him with KJ, who seemed to be a pretty good replacement at the time. Over time, Cael has been proven right about the PSU job - he's now #1 in the country instead of #2 in Iowa. KJ hasn't panned out like people thought he would. Why are Iowa fans so upset about Cael changing jobs? It's pathological. Unless they were worried that the Cael/PSU combo was going to change Iowa's fortunes down the road - and not very far. Something tells me I might be onto something.

 

[jerot]

I hate to quote at length, but there is so much there.

1. People "surmise" what happened. They don't know. And because there was so much anti-Cael sentiment that predated his even leaving ISU among the Iowa crowd, what do they surmise. The absolute worst - even if there is no basis for their beliefs. Fact is, there are no facts known about what Cael required or didn't require of Long at PSU. If there were, I'm sure someone from this board would have been able to point it out.

2. If you read KJ's statement in your "2" above, there is no indication that Long was *not* taking steps to address his personal issues at Penn State. Quite the opposite. KJ said "Andrew decided he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. ..." Sounds like it was believed that Long *would* be addressing those issues while at PSU. KJ didn't say "hey, this is a bad idea" and, if I'm going to surmise, I'm going to surmise that KJ and Cael talked about the possible transfer before it happened. Especially since KJ said "(w)e will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues."

3. Your "3" is pure speculation.

4. Your "4" is misplaced, but underlines that you don't have knowledge of the actual circumstances and that you are, indeed, speculating.

5. The real fact is Long made it through the wrestling season and remainder of the second semester without incident as far as I know. The incident that led to his arrest occurred during the summer. So your concerns about asking too much from Long seem to be misplaced. His "bad act" occurred when he was not in school, not in the middle of a wrestling season, etc. So maybe, just maybe, there was, in fact, a good support system in place for him during the spring semester of 2011. Or is that too hard to wrap one's head around?

The whole Iowa getting super-offended because Cael left Iowa's instate rival is probably the hardest thing for people outside your (not you personally, the larger "you") little bubble to understand. Yeah, Cael chose to leave ISU for what he perceived as a better opportunity. ISU was able to replace him with KJ, who seemed to be a pretty good replacement at the time. Over time, Cael has been proven right about the PSU job - he's now #1 in the country instead of #2 in Iowa. KJ hasn't panned out like people thought he would. Why are Iowa fans so upset about Cael changing jobs? It's pathological. Unless they were worried that the Cael/PSU combo was going to change Iowa's fortunes down the road - and not very far. Something tells me I might be onto something.

Matter-johnstown have to be the same person.
How else is it possible to post back to back never ending blather about nothing?

 

[johnstownsteel]

Matter-johnstown have to be the same person.
How else is it possible to post back to back never ending blather about nothing?

I take it you're an "yes-man" at work and one of the fools here that feel Cael should have been loyal (I'm cracking up just typing that) to ISU?

 

[MSU158]

johnstownsteel,

I don't think the issue is so much with his leaving as it is about praising his character for doing so. The guy is a human being, albeit as close to inhuman as a DI wrestler has ever been. When some of your counterparts paint him in such a God-like light, it is "only" human for some of us to point out where his God-like status can be argued against.

To state clearly my PSU/Sanderson stance and why:

1.)I think he is the best current DI Head Coach. His recruiting is so outstanding that he almost doesn't have to be that good at many other coaching facets. However, I think he is as good as or better than most DI coaches in those facets as well.
2.)I was actually a fan of his when he was at ISU. He was the 1st 4 year undefeated DI wrestler, an Olympic Champ and the Head Coach at his Alma Mater in the same state as the Hawkeye Powerhouse. That rivalry was OUTSTANDING.
3.)When he left, I started to gauge his character a bit. One would think someone of his caliber would welcome the challenges that coaching at ISU(almost always going to be second fiddle to Iowa In-State) would bring. Instead he left for PSU seeing the untapped potential. Still, I understood. His recruiting ability and being at the premiere school in Pennsylvania proved to be a match made in heaven.
4.)What turned me from him was the Bubba Jenkins situation. It was widely remarked(and very evident by his performance at NCAA's) that Jenkins was dealing with injuries and weight management issues and needed/expected a redshirt year to get healthy and acclimate to 157. I would think a new coach would honor that. Look what Brands did for Alex Tsirtsis. That immediately endeared me to Brands. Instead, Sanderson brings in his brother at 157 for that year. He then tells Jenkins he can't redshirt and can't go 157 this year, even if he could beat his brother. Jenkins realizes that Sanderson has 100% control and the only way he can circumvent it is by an admittedly scandalous sabotaging of his weight certification. Jenkins reacted in the only way he knew would work. Should he have just suffered and wrestled 149 or even worse wasted that year because he couldn't maintain 149?
5.)Many PSU fans act like Sanderson has now reinvented the wheel. Although, I really like mvattio as he is a true fan and hasn't fallen into the ridiculousness of many PSU fans that post A TON. But he is an exception to the PSU fans that post. They belittle every other program(especially Iowa) as often as possible and will blast anyone for not giving them the best possible outcome in every situation and even jump into topics that praise other wrestlers or teams without any mention of PSU. I am labeled as a PSU troll and hater because I give LEVEL HEADED assessments/predictions. That just cracks me up. God forbid I picked Retherford 4th or Megaludis to lose in the finals or Conaway to lose in the R12. Oh, and shame on me for believing a fully healthy OkState could win the title. I must be a troll for saying such ridiculous things................

 

[Ihawkd9times]

I just don't buy Cael is that dumb or naive. But then again we are arguing this with a fan base that think JoePa was a victim and was deaf dumb and blind to anything Sandusky was up to. For the love of god JoePa kept a secret file at home on Sandusky. Not in his office like for everyone else but AT HOME!

These threads will keep going on. Its pointless arguing common sense to an institutionalized fan base. But here we are!

So for the sake of ending it can we all just agree that it wasn't that either coach was hiding anything because they are the greatest men ever but more so both Cael and Joepa were just too f'n stupid to see what was going on around them and its just irony that they can be that successful being that dumb.

Can everyone please sign the common sense agreement?

 

[21Guns]

johnstownsteel,

I don't think the issue is so much with his leaving as it is about praising his character for doing so. The guy is a human being, albeit as close to inhuman as a DI wrestler has ever been. When some of your counterparts paint him in such a God-like light, it is "only" human for some of us to point out where his God-like status can be argued against.

To state clearly my PSU/Sanderson stance and why:

1.)I think he is the best current DI Head Coach. His recruiting is so outstanding that he almost doesn't have to be that good at many other coaching facets. However, I think he is as good as or better than most DI coaches in those facets as well.
2.)I was actually a fan of his when he was at ISU. He was the 1st 4 year undefeated DI wrestler, an Olympic Champ and the Head Coach at his Alma Mater in the same state as the Hawkeye Powerhouse. That rivalry was OUTSTANDING.
3.)When he left, I started to gauge his character a bit. One would think someone of his caliber would welcome the challenges that coaching at ISU(almost always going to be second fiddle to Iowa In-State) would bring. Instead he left for PSU seeing the untapped potential. Still, I understood. His recruiting ability and being at the premiere school in Pennsylvania proved to be a match made in heaven.
4.)What turned me from him was the Bubba Jenkins situation. It was widely remarked(and very evident by his performance at NCAA's) that Jenkins was dealing with injuries and weight management issues and needed/expected a redshirt year to get healthy and acclimate to 157. I would think a new coach would honor that. Look what Brands did for Alex Tsirtsis. That immediately endeared me to Brands. Instead, Sanderson brings in his brother at 157 for that year. He then tells Jenkins he can't redshirt and can't go 157 this year, even if he could beat his brother. Jenkins realizes that Sanderson has 100% control and the only way he can circumvent it is by an admittedly scandalous sabotaging of his weight certification. Jenkins reacted in the only way he knew would work. Should he have just suffered and wrestled 149 or even worse wasted that year because he couldn't maintain 149?
5.)Many PSU fans act like Sanderson has now reinvented the wheel. Although, I really like mvattio as he is a true fan and hasn't fallen into the ridiculousness of many PSU fans that post A TON. But he is an exception to the PSU fans that post. They belittle every other program(especially Iowa) as often as possible and will blast anyone for not giving them the best possible outcome in every situation and even jump into topics that praise other wrestlers or teams without any mention of PSU. I am labeled as a PSU troll and hater because I give LEVEL HEADED assessments/predictions. That just cracks me up. God forbid I picked Retherford 4th or Megaludis to lose in the finals or Conaway to lose in the R12. Oh, and shame on me for believing a fully healthy OkState could win the title. I must be a troll for saying such ridiculous things................

You are labeled a PSU hater because you ARE one.
Each and every post has one form of hate or another toward PSU.

And Bubba has admitted that the reason things didn't work out, was because he was a young kid and he made some mistakes. He has apologized to Cael, and after the 5th title in 6 years, posted that very thing on his twitter.

 

[matter7172]

I just don't buy Cael is that dumb or naive. But then again we are arguing this with a fan base that think JoePa was a victim and was deaf dumb and blind to anything Sandusky was up to. For the love of god JoePa kept a secret file at home on Sandusky. Not in his office like for everyone else but AT HOME!

These threads will keep going on. Its pointless arguing common sense to an institutionalized fan base. But here we are!

So for the sake of ending it can we all just agree that it wasn't that either coach was hiding anything because they are the greatest men ever but more so both Cael and Joepa were just too f'n stupid to see what was going on around them and its just irony that they can be that successful being that dumb.

Can everyone please sign the common sense agreement?

Yeah, you'll get people to take you seriously by using the Sandusky card. It's two entirely different situations but the red herring is difficult to pass up for some people. And I like how you can make broad generalizations while bringing up the red herring. Kudos.

Seriously, given KJ's statement quoted above, why would anyone think there were no conversations between KJ and Cael about Long and that there wasn't a support system in place for Long when he got to Penn State? Unless you are just insistent on seeing the worst of the situation, which is a pretty telling thing.

 

[matter7172]

Matter-johnstown have to be the same person.
How else is it possible to post back to back never ending blather about nothing?

And I was able to edit and write a post at the same exact time and post both at the same time. Yep. You got me, Sherlock.

Ummm, not the same person (obviously).

 

[matter7172]

4.)What turned me from him was the Bubba Jenkins situation. It was widely remarked(and very evident by his performance at NCAA's) that Jenkins was dealing with injuries and weight management issues and needed/expected a redshirt year to get healthy and acclimate to 157. I would think a new coach would honor that. Look what Brands did for Alex Tsirtsis. That immediately endeared me to Brands. Instead, Sanderson brings in his brother at 157 for that year. He then tells Jenkins he can't redshirt and can't go 157 this year, even if he could beat his brother. Jenkins realizes that Sanderson has 100% control and the only way he can circumvent it is by an admittedly scandalous sabotaging of his weight certification. Jenkins reacted in the only way he knew would work. Should he have just suffered and wrestled 149 or even worse wasted that year because he couldn't maintain 149?

You must have missed Bubba's tweet during Nationals this year.

Bubba Jenkins ‏@BubbaJenkinsMMA Mar 19


If I was older maybe things would have turned out differently, I but hope @caelsanderson has forgiven me for the past & continues to reign!

Wanna rethink "4" in your post?

 

[minnhawkeye]

wtf this thread is so stupid. Its like kids on the playground saying my dad can whip u r dad. This is all in the past it is over and done. Is there some fault maybe but dam it is over. so lets all move on. Peace to u all.

 

[Azchief32]

3. Your "3" is pure speculation.

"I want to thank coach Jackson for his support while I have been here," Long said. "We were working on a process through which I would be able to join the team for the second semester. As I worked through this process I came to the conclusion that I needed a chance to start over somewhere else. "

He did not complete KJ's "process" and rejoin ISU. How is that pure speculation? He did go somewhere he could wrestle right away.

4. Your "4" is misplaced, but underlines that you don't have knowledge of the actual circumstances and that you are, indeed, speculating.

Hence the question in #4. However, I know that with most people who have a huge change in life and pressure, people cope in different ways. Cael chose to take on a troubled kid with a troubled past and put him in the lineup immediately. No disputing it.

5. The real fact is Long made it through the wrestling season and remainder of the second semester without incident as far as I know. The incident that led to his arrest occurred during the summer. So your concerns about asking too much from Long seem to be misplaced. His "bad act" occurred when he was not in school, not in the middle of a wrestling season, etc. So maybe, just maybe, there was, in fact, a good support system in place for him during the spring semester of 2011. Or is that too hard to wrap one's head around?

"For those against, is it really Cael's problem what a man decides to do in the off season? Cael cannot be with his wrestlers 24/7. Trust me, you can preach and grab a young man by the ear to counseling but its up to them to internalize it and implement those measures themselves."

Reading comprehension is fundamental.

Now...For those super offended PSU fans, look at my posting history when it comes to Cael or PSU and tell me I haven't been fair. Even to me though, it is what it looks like. If Brands had done it, you all would be singing the same tune.

You really think that Andrew Long transferred to PSU because Cael saw a chance to help a troubled kid out? What if he was just a previous qualifier or an average wrestler? You still think Cael would have took the chance? Neither do I. Cael wanted to win. Kind of like Montell being able to join the team after a suspension. Or the on campus hunters, or the Taco Bell abusers. The only reason Long is discussed is because of his repeated offenses at ISU, the timing of his transfer and the heinous nature of the crime. Cael is a great coach, but like any other coach who wants to win, he's not getting the halo you all seem to want to place on his head any time soon.

 

[matter7172]

wtf this thread is so stupid. Its like kids on the playground saying my dad can whip u r dad. This is all in the past it is over and done. Is there some fault maybe but dam it is over. so lets all move on. Peace to u all.

Agreed. The "Andrew Long incident" is off-base and pretty stupid to begin with but Iowa folks keep bringing it up, as they did in this thread. Then again, if the Sandusky card keeps getting pulled in an attempt to avoid substantive discussions, you have to be a little overly-optimistic to think that Andrew Long won't be pulled out for, I don't know, 20 or 30 years, no matter how weak the argument is.

 

[LemonPie]

How to piss off MSU158:

Convince him to put on a chainmail glove before he begins to fist himself.

 

[Pennstate1985]

How to piss off MSU158:

Convince him to put on a chainmail glove before he begins to fist himself.

you should be banned from all Rival boards

 

[21Guns]

wtf this thread is so stupid. Its like kids on the playground saying my dad can whip u r dad. This is all in the past it is over and done. Is there some fault maybe but dam it is over. so lets all move on. Peace to u all.

Absolutely Minn. Agreed.

 

[LemonPie]

you should be banned from all Rival boards

No way

 

[MSU158]

You are labeled a PSU hater because you ARE one.
Each and every post has one form of hate or another toward PSU.

And Bubba has admitted that the reason things didn't work out, was because he was a young kid and he made some mistakes. He has apologized to Cael, and after the 5th title in 6 years, posted that very thing on his twitter.

Many of you choose to find things that simply aren't there. If I met ANY of the PSU wrestlers I would show them 100% respect. I absolutely 100% respect them. The same goes for Casey Cunningham. He was a bit younger than me but we were at a tournament or 2 at the same time. I have given serious props to many facets of PSU wrestling. I simply think many of YOU fans are RIDICULOUS.

As far as Bubba goes, he apologized for HOW he did what he did and NOT the why. However, he has gone on record MANY times over the corner he was painted into. What should he have done? Wrestled at considerably less than 100% at a weight class that he no longer felt comfortable at? Oh, and should he have been happy that the new coach brought his brother, not allowing him to at least go the weight he wanted? That doesn't even add in that Sanderson also brought in Taylor to be slated at that weight the next season not even giving Jenkins ANY options. Acting like Sanderson was 100% in the right on this and Jenkins was the bad guy is simply blind fandom, PERIOD!

 

[matter7172]

"I want to thank coach Jackson for his support while I have been here," Long said. "We were working on a process through which I would be able to join the team for the second semester. As I worked through this process I came to the conclusion that I needed a chance to start over somewhere else. "

He did not complete KJ's "process" and rejoin ISU. How is that pure speculation? He did go somewhere he could wrestle right away.

This really isn't that hard. Long was engaged in a process whereby he was going to rejoin ISU for the spring semester. He decided it would be better to go somewhere where he wouldn't fall back into the same patterns of behavior, etc.

There is no indication from KJ's statement or Andrew's that he was going to be going into a situation where there was no structure, etc. put in place for him to deal with his issues. KJ went so far as to say ISU was going to continue to support Long in dealing with the personal issues.

The reason your 3 and 4 were speculation are as follows. Long's quote above doesn't support your assertion that he didn't want to go through the process. In fact, there is nothing there to indicate he hadn't completed the process and wouldn't be allowed to wrestle for ISU as he did for Penn State. The spring semester starts in January, so we are talking about the same semester.

If you are going to get really hardass about the situation, KJ didn't have to grant a release to Long that would allow Long to wrestle in the spring semester. So either KJ didn't give a crap about helping Long or he was satisfied with Long's progress at ISU and the structure at Penn State seemed adequate to him to allow Long to continue to work on his issues. I tend to think it was the latter.

 

[MSU158]

wtf this thread is so stupid. Its like kids on the playground saying my dad can whip u r dad. This is all in the past it is over and done. Is there some fault maybe but dam it is over. so lets all move on. Peace to u all.

It is now the off season. What other threads are going to get us at least 3 pages of conversation?

 

[matter7172]

As far as Bubba goes, he apologized for HOW he did what he did and NOT the why. However, he has gone on record MANY times over the corner he was painted into. What should he have done? Wrestled at considerably less than 100% at a weight class that he no longer felt comfortable at? Oh, and should he have been happy that the new coach brought his brother, not allowing him to at least go the weight he wanted? That doesn't even add in that Sanderson also brought in Taylor to be slated at that weight the next season not even giving Jenkins ANY options. Acting like Sanderson was 100% in the right on this and Jenkins was the bad guy is simply blind fandom, PERIOD!

I haven't painted you as a Penn State hater, but, again, read Jenkins' tweet from Nationals on March 19. Sounds like a young man who recognizes he didn't handle the situation at Penn State very well. It also might tell people a lot about Cael as a person. Nobody was forcing Bubba to say he hopes Cael has forgiven him. So you might want to rethink your point "4".

 

[McCulloughd]

This is one of the more interesting canards of the Iowa anti-Cael canon. It borders on defamation. Has anyone who posted it had any support for the accusation? Was someone privy to the conversations and commitments made between Cael and Andrew? Was someone in the room when they had those conversations? I'm guessing not.

I've had one long conversation with Cael in my life (which is probably more than most posters here can say) but have followed his career since he started wrestling at Iowa State. I don't have the impression that what he is alleged to have done with Long's case is true in any way, shape or form. It has as much substance as positions that Cael was never going to beat Iowa or win national championships or that he would never win championships after Taylor and Ruth left the program or ....

As far as I can tell, it's just trolling - and in a very irresponsible and classless way.

Being in the room listening to these conversations means nothing in a case of Defamation of Character. It's your word against his. Now however, this for whatever it's worth post of yours that "everyone" can read is without a doubt grounds for Defamation of Character.

 

[MSU158]

I haven't painted you as a Penn State hater, but, again, read Jenkins' tweet from Nationals on March 19. Sounds like a young man who recognizes he didn't handle the situation at Penn State very well. It also might tell people a lot about Cael as a person. Nobody was forcing Bubba to say he hopes Cael has forgiven him. So you might want to rethink your point "4".

His apology simply showed he grew up. At that time he didn't know what to do and his resolution was admittedly very sophomoric. In hindsight, he may believe their could have been another option. However, that doesn't mean there was one. Many people, myself included, apologize for things much later in life. That doesn't mean that taking back what he did would have done him any favors or benefited him in the least. I see it more as a let bygones be bygones than anything else.

Also, remember that he gets to say this in hindsight after having won a national championship the next year at a different school. I am not so sure he would be so quick to apologize otherwise..........