How to piss PSU fans off big time!

[matter7172]

Being in the room listening to these conversations means nothing in a case of Defamation of Character. It's your word against his. Now however, this for whatever it's worth post of yours that "everyone" can read is without a doubt grounds for Defamation of Character.

I'm guessing you are not, and have never been, an attorney.

 

[Azchief32]

The reason your 3 and 4 were speculation are as follows. Long's quote above doesn't support your assertion that he didn't want to go through the process. In fact, there is nothing there to indicate he hadn't completed the process and wouldn't be allowed to wrestle for ISU as he did for Penn State. The spring semester starts in January, so we are talking about the same semester.

"We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

Again...reading is fundamental. KJ didn't keep DT or anybody else for that matter. This is what I don't get...why can't PSU fans just admit that Cael had a Top 5 kid that he knew to be troubled come to PSU because he wanted to win a title and Long was going to help that cause.

I don't blame Cael for what Long did but like any other organization, what people do on the organization's time is a reflection of it, fair or unfair. PSU fans should know this. It happens on the news for us every time an Airman gets busted in the local area. "Davis Monthan Airman is arrested for....."
It does a disservice to the 95% of us who stay out of trouble but it's a reality that comes with making tough leadership choices.

 

[MSU158]

Azchief32,

Thank you for simply telling the truth for me. I don't even peruse any PSU boards, but wasdt21's post made me look just to see how much I am getting blasted over there. I would love to talk MSU wrestling, but I have a feeling that I would mainly be talking to myself!

 

[wasdt21]

hey keep me out of this, you brought these clowns here you deal with them

 

[MSU158]

hey keep me out of this, you brought these clowns here you deal with them

I wasn't bringing you into anything. You posted about me posting on a PSU site, which I never have. That made me look to see what you were talking about.

I will happily deal with them. I simply wanted to thank Azchief for pointing out some inaccuracies.

 

[McCulloughd]

I'm guessing you are not, and have never been, an attorney.

Nope. But I do know that printing defaming remarks about someone on a piece of paper and then sending this paper and copies of this paper to other people would be considered Defamation of Character.

 

[IrishinGA]

This really isn't that hard. Long was engaged in a process whereby he was going to rejoin ISU for the spring semester. He decided it would be better to go somewhere where he wouldn't fall back into the same patterns of behavior, etc.

There is no indication from KJ's statement or Andrew's that he was going to be going into a situation where there was no structure, etc. put in place for him to deal with his issues. KJ went so far as to say ISU was going to continue to support Long in dealing with the personal issues.

The reason your 3 and 4 were speculation are as follows. Long's quote above doesn't support your assertion that he didn't want to go through the process. In fact, there is nothing there to indicate he hadn't completed the process and wouldn't be allowed to wrestle for ISU as he did for Penn State. The spring semester starts in January, so we are talking about the same semester.

If you are going to get really hardass about the situation, KJ didn't have to grant a release to Long that would allow Long to wrestle in the spring semester. So either KJ didn't give a crap about helping Long or he was satisfied with Long's progress at ISU and the structure at Penn State seemed adequate to him to allow Long to continue to work on his issues. I tend to think it was the latter.

I understand how you could view Chief's comments as speculation but you cannot say your statement above is anything more that speculation either. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe.

 

[matter7172]

Again...reading is fundamental. KJ didn't keep DT or anybody else for that matter. This is what I don't get...why can't PSU fans just admit that Cael had a Top 5 kid that he knew to be troubled come to PSU because he wanted to win a title and Long was going to help that cause.

DT's situation was different because he never enrolled at ISU, unless I'm mistaken.

It's just as likely a scenario that KJ was on board with Long leaving ISU (his comments seem to support that) and that Cael sincerely thought Long could do better in a new environment (and maybe Jackson thought a new environment would be beneficial also). Again, as far as I know, Long kept his nose clean during the spring semester, so the new situation seemed to be working. Things obviously went off track during the summer, but there is no factual basis for attributing nefarious intent to Cael. I know the first title Cael won at Penn State stung the Iowa faithful, but the Iowa faithful ought to be over that by now.

If you really believe your scenario, why aren't you throwing KJ under the bus for the Long situation. He had Long under his umbrella and, in your version anyway, instead of continuing "the process", he released Long to (what Iowa fans would have us believe to be) an unsupervised Wild West at State College. It's too absurd.

 

[matter7172]

Nope. But I do know that printing defaming remarks about someone on a piece of paper and then sending this paper and copies of this paper to other people would be considered Defamation of Character.

No, that would be publication. There are a lot of elements to defamation and many of them are not so cut and dried. It's a complex area of law, which is why I said borders on defamation. I will say that if you say something you know to be false, or with reckless disregard of the truth, which a lot of the things said about Cael in the Long situation are, since no one has given any factual basis for them, you are working your way towards defamation.

 

[matter7172]

I understand how you could view Chief's comments as speculation but you cannot say your statement above is anything more that speculation either. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe.

Yes, but which is more plausible? To think KJ would just abandon Long without firm reassurances that Penn State/Cael would be continuing to help Long address his personal issues seems highly implausible to me. In addition, to paint Cael as some kind of Faustian figure (without any real facts or evidence) seems way beyond the pale.

 

[McCulloughd]

No, that would be publication. There are a lot of elements to defamation and many of them are not so cut and dried. It's a complex area of law, which is why I said borders on defamation. I will say that if you say something you know to be false, or with reckless disregard of the truth, which a lot of the things said about Cael in the Long situation are, since no one has given any factual basis for them, you are working your way towards defamation.

Let's get something straight, I don't give a damn about anyone or anything associated with Penn State. What I just posted about defamation of character actually happened. I don't like Penn State. Most Hawkeye fans on this board know that. Now if I call you a dumb ass to your face in front of 15 people it's because I think your a dumb ass and so do 15 other people.

 

[matter7172]

Let's get something straight, I don't give a damn about anyone or anything associated with Penn State. What I just posted about defamation of character actually happened. I don't like Penn State. Most Hawkeye fans on this board know that. Now if I call you a dumb ass to your face in front of 15 people it's because I think your a dumb ass and so do 15 other people.

Yeah, I know. What you talking about is expressing an opinion, which is something entirely different. Trust me, I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in a steel town. If I worried about people calling me a dumb ass, I would have been in a lot of trouble my whole life. I just consider the source in those instances. Why don't you like Penn State wrestling?

 

[minnhawkeye]

How did the HATE IOWA ALL START........because they where winning all the time.
Now Penn State is winning most of the time...so best you and all the fans get used to it.......
WE HATE PENN STATE. simple right. and really nothing personal just way sports go everyone hated the New York Yankees etc. ....

 

[Lattner]

I hate to quote at length, but there is so much there.

1. People "surmise" what happened. They don't know. And because there was so much anti-Cael sentiment that predated his even leaving ISU among the Iowa crowd, what do they surmise. The absolute worst - even if there is no basis for their beliefs. Fact is, there are no facts known about what Cael required or didn't require of Long at PSU. If there were, I'm sure someone from this board would have been able to point it out.

2. If you read KJ's statement in your "2" above, there is no indication that Long was *not* taking steps to address his personal issues at Penn State. Quite the opposite. KJ said "Andrew decided he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. ..." Sounds like it was believed that Long *would* be addressing those issues while at PSU. KJ didn't say "hey, this is a bad idea" and, if I'm going to surmise, I'm going to surmise that KJ and Cael talked about the possible transfer before it happened. Especially since KJ said "(w)e will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues."

3. Your "3" is pure speculation.

4. Your "4" is misplaced, but underlines that you don't have knowledge of the actual circumstances and that you are, indeed, speculating.

5. The real fact is Long made it through the wrestling season and remainder of the second semester without incident as far as I know. The incident that led to his arrest occurred during the summer. So your concerns about asking too much from Long seem to be misplaced. His "bad act" occurred when he was not in school, not in the middle of a wrestling season, etc. So maybe, just maybe, there was, in fact, a good support system in place for him during the spring semester of 2011. Or is that too hard to wrap one's head around?

The whole Iowa getting super-offended because Cael left Iowa's instate rival is probably the hardest thing for people outside your (not you personally, the larger "you") little bubble to understand. Yeah, Cael chose to leave ISU for what he perceived as a better opportunity. ISU was able to replace him with KJ, who seemed to be a pretty good replacement at the time. Over time, Cael has been proven right about the PSU job - he's now #1 in the country instead of #2 in Iowa. KJ hasn't panned out like people thought he would. Why are Iowa fans so upset about Cael changing jobs? It's pathological. Unless they were worried that the Cael/PSU combo was going to change Iowa's fortunes down the road - and not very far. Something tells me I might be onto something.

Yep.

 

[whejoe]

905 more posts until we reach the coveted 1000 posts!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cold Smoke]

How did the HATE IOWA ALL START........because they where winning all the time.
Now Penn State is winning most of the time...so best you and all the fans get used to it.......
WE HATE PENN STATE. simple right. and really nothing personal just way sports go everyone hated the New York Yankees etc. ....

Please hate PSU. Please. Fun, as hell. Thanks.

 

[24 so far]

DT's situation was different because he never enrolled at ISU, unless I'm mistaken.

It's just as likely a scenario that KJ was on board with Long leaving ISU (his comments seem to support that) and that Cael sincerely thought Long could do better in a new environment (and maybe Jackson thought a new environment would be beneficial also). Again, as far as I know, Long kept his nose clean during the spring semester, so the new situation seemed to be working. Things obviously went off track during the summer, but there is no factual basis for attributing nefarious intent to Cael. I know the first title Cael won at Penn State stung the Iowa faithful, but the Iowa faithful ought to be over that by now.

If you really believe your scenario, why aren't you throwing KJ under the bus for the Long situation. He had Long under his umbrella and, in your version anyway, instead of continuing "the process", he released Long to (what Iowa fans would have us believe to be) an unsupervised Wild West at State College. It's too absurd.

Ask yourself this question.....if Andrew Long were a fringe R12 guy does he ever wrestle at Penn State for Cael Sanderson?

The world knows the answer but I'm curious if you do. Can't wait for this one...............................

 

[matter7172]

Ask yourself this question.....if Andrew Long were a fringe R12 guy does he ever wrestle at Penn State for Cael Sanderson?

The world knows the answer but I'm curious if you do. Can't wait for this one...............................

If you define the Hawkeye Wrestling Nation as "the world", the world is guessing. This is what is called a hypothetical. So nobody "knows" the answer unless they are delusional.

I don't know and could only speculate, but it doesn't seem out of the question. Andrew Long was recruited by Cael to come to ISU and if he were in a situation where it was felt he needed a change of scenery to keep working on his personal issues while continuing his education and wrestling career and his coach at ISU supported the transfer ... who really knows? It's possible.

 

[Lattner]

I know a guy who was an AA type for ISU in the 90s and he was not happy with the way the Bobby D/Cael thing went down. At the time, I didn't ask him for the inside baseball on it because I wasn't posting and didn't really care about ISU inner politics. The real question is whether Cael lobbied for the spot or was ISU so scared of losing a certifiable big name and repeating a Gable. In our sport, it would be like making the Babe to the Yankees sale twice. I'm guessing the latter and no matter what, a break up is going to be difficult on one side.

PSU fans don't understand that Iowa fans think Cael's ultimate act of leaving was a betrayal to his alma mater after all the above was accomplished to give Cael the job. Cael wasn't having that much fun at ISU because it's a Hawkeye state. He made the right move but let's not pretend that there wasn't some cold-blooded calculation on his part.

As for Andrew Long, I have no clue what the deal on that was but the here are the facts:

1. He was troubled and had a lot of problems at ISU despite his success. He had three alcohol related offenses while in Ames to include assault.

2. KJ was in the process of having Andrew go through some type of rehab/treatment but would not let him back on the team until he did the process. Sidebar: Good on KJ for not taking a win at all costs measure.

"We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

3. Long didn't want to go through this process and saw a chance to start over with Cael at PSU and wrestle immediately. He left ISU in Dec 2010 and wrestled for PSU in January.

4. Did Cael have a similar process in place for Long? If so, why wrestle him immediately. For an alcoholic with no tools to deal with pressure, a transfer to a new environment, team, and academic setting is lot to take on for a troubled kid.

5. He finished third at NCAA's going 5-1 with two pins. PSU wins the title.

6. He was off the team eight months later, in jail, charged with rape.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. From the outside, one can surmise that Cael rightly believed he needed one more high level in place to win a title, saw his chance in Long, and took it. For PSU fans that don't believe Cael is that competitive, keep in mind that he chose to redshirt three top guys because last year was a "maybe" while this year was a pretty much in terms of getting a title.

For those against, is it really Cael's problem what a man decides to do in the off season? Cael cannot be with his wrestlers 24/7. Trust me, you can preach and grab a young man by the ear to counseling but its up to them to internalize it and implement those measures themselves.

Words to live by.

 

[rossel 33]

matter7172:
<<There is no indication from KJ's statement or Andrew's that he was going to be going into a situation where there was no structure, etc. put in place for him to deal with his issues. KJ went so far as to say ISU was going to continue to support Long in dealing with the personal issues.

The reason your 3 and 4 were speculation are as follows. Long's quote above doesn't support your assertion that he didn't want to go through the process. In fact, there is nothing there to indicate he hadn't completed the process and wouldn't be allowed to wrestle for ISU as he did for Penn State. >>

-------

<<By Tom Kroeschell Iowa State Sports Information
12/08/2010

Andrew Long will leave Ames and head to State College.

AMES, Iowa – Former Iowa State wrestler Andrew Long intends to transfer to Penn State to continue his collegiate wrestling career it was announced Wednesday. Long was the 125-pound runner-up for the Cyclones at the NCAA Championships in March. He finished the season with a 27-7 record.

“We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

Long was dismissed from the Iowa State wrestling team in June after violations of team rules. He is currently enrolled as a student at Iowa State.>>

The way I read that is, KJ laid out what needed to be done to rejoin the team at ISU. It is early Dec 2010, and Long has not done what he has to. Instead he opts to "start over" and transfer to PSU. He did transfer in Dec 2010, and immediately started wrestling.

This supports every account I've read about this, Long didn't complete his treatment program. Now maybe Cael gave him a verbal ' you gotta behave,' but I've never seen any mention of him getting professional help once he transferred to PSU. We do know that he wrestled right away.

It seems like you want to assume he got treatment simply to put the best possible spin on what face value looks like bad judgement by Cael.

 

[Lattner]

Also easy to forget -
Andrew Long (Creston, Iowa/Grand View University) has been selected as TheMat.com wrestler of the week on Jan. 1, 2016.

Long won the Ken Kraft Midlands Championships at 141 pounds in dominating fashion. The Grand View junior posted two falls, two technical falls and a major decision on his way to capturing the Midlands title.

In the finals, Long stole the show once more, defeating Steve Bleise of Northern Illinois by technical fall, 23-5. He was named the Dan Gable Outstanding Wrestler of the competition.

The win by Long gave Grand View its first champion at the prestigious open tournament. Moreover, Long is the first NAIA wrestler to capture a Midlands crown since 2003.

Long was a NCAA finalist as a freshman for Iowa State in 2010 before transferring to Penn State the next year. He was a member of the 2011 NCAA championship team for Penn State and earned a third place finish at the NCAA Championships that same year.

 

[24 so far]

Also easy to forget -
Andrew Long (Creston, Iowa/Grand View University) has been selected as TheMat.com wrestler of the week on Jan. 1, 2016.

Long won the Ken Kraft Midlands Championships at 141 pounds in dominating fashion. The Grand View junior posted two falls, two technical falls and a major decision on his way to capturing the Midlands title.

In the finals, Long stole the show once more, defeating Steve Bleise of Northern Illinois by technical fall, 23-5. He was named the Dan Gable Outstanding Wrestler of the competition.

The win by Long gave Grand View its first champion at the prestigious open tournament. Moreover, Long is the first NAIA wrestler to capture a Midlands crown since 2003.

Long was a NCAA finalist as a freshman for Iowa State in 2010 before transferring to Penn State the next year. He was a member of the 2011 NCAA championship team for Penn State and earned a third place finish at the NCAA Championships that same year.

It's easy to forget something anyone who is a wrestling fan in the State of Iowa already knows and witnessed? That happened in January? Geez, thanks for that awesome reminder of "things that are easy to forget"! LOL!

You're probably unaware, but Iowa wrestles in the Midlands pretty much every year, and shockingly this year was one of those years. Finals on BTN, which Long was clearly in. Long has been discussed more than a PSU Wrestler on this board (some will get it, some won't). Yeah, we forgot alright...............

 

[matter7172]

matter7172:
<<There is no indication from KJ's statement or Andrew's that he was going to be going into a situation where there was no structure, etc. put in place for him to deal with his issues. KJ went so far as to say ISU was going to continue to support Long in dealing with the personal issues.

The reason your 3 and 4 were speculation are as follows. Long's quote above doesn't support your assertion that he didn't want to go through the process. In fact, there is nothing there to indicate he hadn't completed the process and wouldn't be allowed to wrestle for ISU as he did for Penn State. >>

-------

<<By Tom Kroeschell Iowa State Sports Information
12/08/2010

Andrew Long will leave Ames and head to State College.

AMES, Iowa – Former Iowa State wrestler Andrew Long intends to transfer to Penn State to continue his collegiate wrestling career it was announced Wednesday. Long was the 125-pound runner-up for the Cyclones at the NCAA Championships in March. He finished the season with a 27-7 record.

“We gave Andrew a series of steps he needed to accomplish to rejoin our team,” Iowa State head coach Kevin Jackson said. “During that process, Andrew decided that he could best address those issues in a place where he would be starting over. We will honor his decision and support his efforts to address his personal issues.”

Long was dismissed from the Iowa State wrestling team in June after violations of team rules. He is currently enrolled as a student at Iowa State.>>

The way I read that is, KJ laid out what needed to be done to rejoin the team at ISU. It is early Dec 2010, and Long has not done what he has to. Instead he opts to "start over" and transfer to PSU. He did transfer in Dec 2010, and immediately started wrestling.

This supports every account I've read about this, Long didn't complete his treatment program. Now maybe Cael gave him a verbal ' you gotta behave,' but I've never seen any mention of him getting professional help once he transferred to PSU. We do know that he wrestled right away.

It seems like you want to assume he got treatment simply to put the best possible spin on what face value looks like bad judgement by Cael.

Unless you can determine when Jackson met with him and started the process, you are guessing. Jackson most certainly does not say that "Long didn't complete his treatment program". Look, it comes down to this, you can fill in the blanks to vilify Cael when you don't really have any knowledge of the situation - but what kind of person does that make you?

 

[whejoe]

Unless you can determine when Jackson met with him and started the process, you are guessing. Jackson most certainly does not say that "Long didn't complete his treatment program". Look, it comes down to this, you can fill in the blanks to vilify Cael when you don't really have any knowledge of the situation - but what kind of person does that make you?

How about you not worry about what Iowa fans think about Cael and Long and stay the f&ck off this board and go back to your own board.

Thanks MSU for starting this thread.

 

[rossel 33]

Unless you can determine when Jackson met with him and started the process, you are guessing. Jackson most certainly does not say that "Long didn't complete his treatment program". Look, it comes down to this, you can fill in the blanks to vilify Cael when you don't really have any knowledge of the situation - but what kind of person does that make you?

------
If Long had completed the treatment program required by Jackson, he'd have been back on the ISU team in Dec 2010 and there would be no need to transfer to PSU, where he starts wrestling right away. That is a logical conclusion from the article. Why would there be a need to transfer and "start over?"

Your blind Cael-worship is clouding your thinking.

 

[jerot]

How about you not worry about what Iowa fans think about Cael and Long and stay the f&ck off this board and go back to your own board.

Thanks MSU for starting this thread.

As long as he gets fed, he will never leave.
Kind of like a roach.

 

[El-Jefe]

4.)What turned me from him was the Bubba Jenkins situation. It was widely remarked(and very evident by his performance at NCAA's) that Jenkins was dealing with injuries and weight management issues and needed/expected a redshirt year to get healthy and acclimate to 157. I would think a new coach would honor that. Look what Brands did for Alex Tsirtsis. That immediately endeared me to Brands. Instead, Sanderson brings in his brother at 157 for that year. He then tells Jenkins he can't redshirt and can't go 157 this year, even if he could beat his brother. Jenkins realizes that Sanderson has 100% control and the only way he can circumvent it is by an admittedly scandalous sabotaging of his weight certification. Jenkins reacted in the only way he knew would work. Should he have just suffered and wrestled 149 or even worse wasted that year because he couldn't maintain 149?

Weight wasn't the only thing Bubba sabotaged. I can't imagine Brands or Smith or Robinson or Ryan or any other big-name coach would've tolerated this situation. And especially not in his first year at the school.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_c873a586-83a9-5969-885f-f5d962e019a3.html

Jan 6, 2010

Bubba Jenkins, recently released from his Penn State wrestling scholarship, told Flowrestling that he intentionally did poorly in his spring 2009 classes to become ineligible and force a redshirt year this season.

The erstwhile Nittany Lion All-American was frustrated that he hadn't been granted a redshirt year in his previous three seasons on campus. He was thrown into the lineup as a true freshman in 2006-07 to fill an injury hole and stayed in the lineup until becoming ineligible.

 

[The catman]

All right, lights out! Everyone to bed.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Wow, this thread is like a blast from the past on themat. Couple things:

1. Bubba Jenkins was vilified by the Iowa fan base to no end when he wrestled at Penn State. He was the subject of numerous personal attacks by their fan base here and over on themat. Once he left for ASU, all of a sudden he was their hero, a poor victim of Cael Sanderson. With friends like that, who needs enemies, right?

2. Long and Marion occurred at the same time and both had very similar rap sheets. Both coaches thought they could get the guy on the straight & narrow and benefit from a talented wrestler. Both wrestlers sat out one semester. Both had to meet certain conditions. Long had to relocate halfway across the country and lose credits while Marion did not. In the end, this is like playing Russian roulette, a game played by many coaches at the college and pro level. The gun went off in Cael's hand, not Brands, but does that really give Iowa the higher ground, I think not. Especially considering the long rap sheet Iowa wrestlers have had since then. I mean seriously, who was your 141 starter this year? Just because you didn't win the championship doesn't make it any more right.

3. Rossel and MSU assertions that themat was civil prior to PSU started wining is laughable. I posted there during the entire Iowa 3 championship run and it was overrun by obnoxious Iowa fans. I still remember when Cael was hired by Penn State and how they pissed all over the PSU fans for being excited about the hire. Sanderson's fist year was awful over there.

 

[The catman]

Well, the past few years, it has been awful over here, isn't it about time for him to retire?

 

[24 so far]

Wow, this thread is like a blast from the past on themat. Couple things:

1. Bubba Jenkins was vilified by the Iowa fan base to no end when he wrestled at Penn State. He was the subject of numerous personal attacks by their fan base here and over on themat. Once he left for ASU, all of a sudden he was their hero, a poor victim of Cael Sanderson. With friends like that, who needs enemies, right?

2. Long and Marion occurred at the same time and both had very similar rap sheets. Both coaches thought they could get the guy on the straight & narrow and benefit from a talented wrestler. Both wrestlers sat out one semester. Both had to meet certain conditions. Long had to relocate halfway across the country and lose credits while Marion did not. In the end, this is like playing Russian roulette, a game played by many coaches at the college and pro level. The gun went off in Cael's hand, not Brands, but does that really give Iowa the higher ground, I think not. Especially considering the long rap sheet Iowa wrestlers have had since then. I mean seriously, who was your 141 starter this year? Just because you didn't win the championship doesn't make it any more right.

3. Rossel and MSU assertions that themat was civil prior to PSU started wining is laughable. I posted there during the entire Iowa 3 championship run and it was overrun by obnoxious Iowa fans. I still remember when Cael was hired by Penn State and how they pissed all over the PSU fans for being excited about the hire. Sanderson's fist year was awful over there.

Bubba Jenkins vilified by Iowa fans? What for, for being a rag doll for Metcalf? LOL!

Marion and Long situations aren't remotely close to the same thing, except maybe in your mind (using the term loosely of course). Long, a returning NCAA Finalist prior to "landing" (cough, cough) at Penn State, and Marion was a little known recruit "stolen" from mighty UNI after a year at the OTC.

Long replaced who in the Penn State lineup? Iowa's cupboard wasn't remotely close to bare when Marion came in, as a true freshman. I'll let you do the research. Other than that, you're right, their paths and where they ended up are eerily similar..................LOL!

 

[pablow]

Cael owes nothing to ISU, Cael owes nothing to Bobby Douglas, Cael owes nothing to Andrew Long. I think we're all in agreement. Except the PSU crowd admires Cael for looking out for #1, most in Iowa view Cael's self-devotion as a character flaw.

 

[McCulloughd]

Wow, this thread is like a blast from the past on themat. Couple things:

1. Bubba Jenkins was vilified by the Iowa fan base to no end when he wrestled at Penn State. He was the subject of numerous personal attacks by their fan base here and over on themat. Once he left for ASU, all of a sudden he was their hero, a poor victim of Cael Sanderson. With friends like that, who needs enemies, right?

2. Long and Marion occurred at the same time and both had very similar rap sheets. Both coaches thought they could get the guy on the straight & narrow and benefit from a talented wrestler. Both wrestlers sat out one semester. Both had to meet certain conditions. Long had to relocate halfway across the country and lose credits while Marion did not. In the end, this is like playing Russian roulette, a game played by many coaches at the college and pro level. The gun went off in Cael's hand, not Brands, but does that really give Iowa the higher ground, I think not. Especially considering the long rap sheet Iowa wrestlers have had since then. I mean seriously, who was your 141 starter this year? Just because you didn't win the championship doesn't make it any more right.

3. Rossel and MSU assertions that themat was civil prior to PSU started wining is laughable. I posted there during the entire Iowa 3 championship run and it was overrun by obnoxious Iowa fans. I still remember when Cael was hired by Penn State and how they pissed all over the PSU fans for being excited about the hire. Sanderson's fist year was awful over there.

Both had to meet certain conditions? Marion did and Long didn't.

 

[Azchief32]

Both had to meet certain conditions? Marion did and Long didn't.

One had to to so within his own program and the other could bael to another and wrestle immediately. I'm sure if Tom had brought in a troubled wrestler from outside the program that not only plugged a hole in the lineup but was pretty much a guarantee top 4 guy, won a national title with him, the PSU folks would have totally given Brands the benefit of the doubt and applauded him for his altruistic ways. We all know this to be true.

 

[pablow]

One had to to so within his own program and the other could bael to another and wrestle immediately. I'm sure if Tom had brought in a troubled wrestler from outside the program that not only plugged a hole in the lineup but was pretty much a guarantee top 4 guy, won a national title with him, the PSU folks would have totally given Brands the benefit of the doubt and applauded him for his altruistic ways. We all know this to be true.

+1. Very doubtful T&T would have even done this. Even more doubtful, Barta and Mims would have allowed it.

 

[pablow]

Both had to meet certain conditions? Marion did and Long didn't.

But Long met Cael's conditions - whatever those were.

 

[Azchief32]

+1. Very doubtful T&T would have even done this. Even more doubtful, Barta and Mims would have allowed it.

And you know what? I don't know if I would have done anything differently. Others can argue the ethics of it in their own head. Cael did what it took to win...just tired of PSU fans denying that about him and assigning some higher plane of karmic existence for Cael. Next thing we know, they'll be talking about how quickly "Long developed into a "PSU Fun Style" wrestler under Cael's guidance...just wish we had some warning about those character flaws."

 

[Ihawkd9times]

This isn't that complicated. KJ told Long you need to do this otherwise you wont get back on the mat this year. Long then contacted Cael because that was his only chance at getting back on the mat that season. And it worked!

Cael enabled Long because KJ tried to take away something that Cael just let him have back. That article is just coach speak but everyone inside the ISU program knows and around Long knows.

What's hilarious is that a PSU poster thinks KJ and Cael were working together with a plan for Long that would continue at PSU. LMAO!!!!! You guys are so dense that you think that KJ had any intention of helping another coach. Then you have never met Jaime Pollard. Cael didn't exactly leave on Hoiberg like terms.

Get a clue.

 

[matter7172]

------
If Long had completed the treatment program required by Jackson, he'd have been back on the ISU team in Dec 2010 and there would be no need to transfer to PSU, where he starts wrestling right away. That is a logical conclusion from the article. Why would there be a need to transfer and "start over?"

Your blind Cael-worship is clouding your thinking.

You don't think there is any possibility that Long decided that a new environment would help him (whether or not he was right about that) and that Jackson concurred? Jackson sounds like someone who, if not happy about the transfer, is on board with it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if you are going to vilify Cael for the Long situation, you have to vilify KJ as much, if not more. If KJ thought it was not in Long's best interests to transfer to Penn State, he could have held the eligibility card over his head to convince him to stay in Ames. He clearly did not do that.

From where I sit, unless someone has some real hard facts on their side, impugning Cael for the Long situation, especially when not treating KJ with the same speculative taint, just seems like childish sour grapes from fans of a team who came in third in 2011. And that's being kind, because it goes way beyond that.

 

[Azchief32]

But Long met Cael's conditions - whatever those were.

(Scene) Long steps into the coaching office where Coach Sanderson is carefully waxing his head while on a conference call to Jesus.

Cael: Jesus, going to have to put you on hold
Jesus: But, I am the Son of...<click>
Cael:Sorry bout that Andrew, everybody needs advice these days
Andrew: Thanks for the opp-
Cael: <interrupts>You drunk kid?
Andrew: No coach, as you know, I was working on--
Cael:<interrupts again> Good, good. Never got people that took to the bottle. My people have a thing against it. Btw, you wouldn't happen to be interested...aww forget it. Get in the room kid and try not to do anything stupid. Oh and Andrew, try and have some fun while you're here.