Here is actually another instance of him “gesturing” towards the opponent’s crowd (the same one he is accused of flexing at in this case), and some say it wasn’t exactly “playful” - http://myracinecounty.com/?p=31234
Seems to be a trend
HS Wrestler Disqualified
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Here is actually another instance of him “gesturing” towards the opponent’s crowd (the same one he is accused of flexing at in this case), and some say it wasn’t exactly “playful” - http://myracinecounty.com/?p=31234
Seems to be a trend
I didn’t see a video. You seem to be having trouble understanding my posts. I pointed out that the gesture in question was far too small for any unbiased official to consider a taunt. Until you can produce a video showing any wrestler making that small of a gesture then being hit with an unsportsmanlike, I stand by that opinion.
Do you understand that simply pointing to another instance if him getting an USC doesn’t address my claim in any way?
The gesture in the link above was not a flex.
But again, the issue was never the flex itself. it was that it was directed at opposing fans, which 2 separate refs interpreted as taunting.
In international competitions (and likely most college ones as well), you probably can't tell who they were directed at (if anyone) because of the size of the arena. In HS the stands are a few feet away so I imagine it was pretty easy to tell.
I don't think there is a video of the above and it doesn't even appear that he was hit with a USC in that one. Just pointing out that there are at least 3 documented instances within the last year of him directing gestures at opposing fans.
There might be a video of the other previous instance, but it's behind track's paywall. Anyone in here with a track subscription that wants to watch and share what they see? However in that case the ref was specifically quoted as saying he called it because it was directed at the opposing fans, which is the exact reason this ref said he called it in this case. How did you survive before cell phone video?
I see Texas twister made another account so he appears to not be alone on this issue.
You are the one who claimed he made the “exact” same gesture for an USC in the past. Since you didn’t see it, and have no proof, I simply don’t believe you.
Yes, I believe he’s been called for taunting. I don’t believe 99% of the time his little gesture — which happed before you can say “unsportsmanlike conduct” would be considered taunting. You are free to disagree, but if you say you have proof then show proof.
He has a history of taunting; so, why would it surprise you that he would taunt again? Taunting does not require any time duration. Like a sliced throat, it can be very brief. That was taunting if he directed it at the opposition (I believe he did)
Man you are literal.
The point is it is documented that he had already been penalized in the past for flexing in the direction of the opposing fans. That alone should be enough to deter him from doing it again, but apparently it wasn't.
What exactly is your argument? That maybe the last time he was penalized he did it for 3 seconds, so this time he thought to himself, "Hmm, maybe if I only do it for 1 second this time I won't get penalized?"
Seriously? I have re-stated my argument in every post. Perhaps you should "respond" to my posts instead of "react" to my posts.
I have said (over and over again) that 99% of the time, that gesture -- regardless of whom the wrestler is facing -- would not be considered a taunt. This, btw, is consistent with the judge's reaction.
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But your argument is that the previous time he was penalized for flexing it was somehow a different gesture, correct?
Fair enough; but, that is just your opinion. You aren't suggesting that only your opinion should be considered valid?
That wasn't my specific argument -- I simply responded to your claim that he made the "exact" same gesture last year. I find that doubtful -- although given the kid's reputation in the state it's not out of the question that a few officials have a hard-on for him and are looking for a way to ding him. And, yes, if he got dinged last year he should have been very, very careful this year. No question.
But my specific argument is that with any other wrestler and any other official, 99% of the time what I saw on the video would not result in an unsportsmanlike. Rather than judging the kid, I was judging the official, who I believe over-reacted in a way that suggests bias. As I said in the beginning, it's possible they are both a-holes. But the fact that a kid might be a douche does not excuse an official responding in kind.
Of course it's just an opinion. I don't have 1000 videos of kids celebrating in order to conduct a study to see what % get hit with an USC for similar gestures. I just thinks it's self-evident to most fans that it was a highly unusual call. Which suggests bias. It doesn't prove bias. It suggests it. To me -- and clearly to a lot of others.
My brother's son wrestles for Elkhorn High School. He was there. He saw the whole thing. Suffice it to write, he felt that the kid deserved everything he got. And, I'll write this, the kid is a great example of "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."
Funny . . . the newspaper article conveniently omits the parents going after the officials with a barrage of "f-bombs" and the police being called to escort them from the building.
My brother's kid (multi-time winner of WI state championships in folkstyle, freestyle and Greco) lost his match in OT and there was a controversial call which led to OT. Did they hire a lawyer to have the officials' call reviewed? Nope. Officials' discretion is a known variable. Losing a point and being suspended for a match are the progression of penalties. The kid knew it. His coach knew it. His parents knew it.
That isn't how it is being judged. It is claimed "to be biased". I have also claimed "it may be taunting if directed at the opposition/fan base". Nuts on here claim otherwise (no, I am not calling you one of them)
The Wisconsin state high school wrestling rules are clear. Confront the referee and you're docked a point. Violate the rule, suffer the consequences.
The kid's story about "flexing" to his Dad doesn't hold water. After the kid was assessed an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for questioning the referee's call, the Dad came flying down the stands and was next to the mat and yelled at the ref "what the hell was that call for?" The kid didn't flex until after his Dad was yelling at the referee. Then the Mom started screaming "f-bombs" at wrestling officials in attendance. Dad was ejected after confronting the refs. Police had to be called to escort them from the facility.
Make no mistake . . . this family is well known in that area of the state. Looks like the Mom took down the "everyone is out to get us because our son is so good" posts off of her FaceBook page.
The father was not matside when junior mini-flexed. The video clearly shows the official talking to (threatening) the father in the stands as his was son flexing. You need to watch the videos.
Who cares what the video shows. His brothers son was there. Screw the video evidence. Case closed.
There always seems to be some dopey judge who wants to stick his nose where it doesn't belong.
The video shows the ref turning around and talking to father behind him. It doesn't actually show where the father was at that moment.
Regardless, that wasn't where the kid was flexing towards.
Good catch, I hadn't noticed that before. You can see him pop in the screen at about 2:49 of the video (looks like he might've wanted some NF swipes).
The judge in this case indicated he thought the evidence showed that Halter flexed at his dad.
Some people are way too invested in this. Regardless of whether you believe the suspension is warranted, the WIAA needs to clarify their suspension rules as it appears to me the school found an easy loophole and the state didn’t like it so they fought a losing battle.
Some people are way too invested in this. Regardless of whether you believe the suspension is warranted, the WIAA needs to clarify their suspension rules as it appears to me the school found an easy loophole and the state didn’t like it so they fought a losing battle.
How is that any different than the ref "indicating he thought the evidence showed that he flexed" at the opposing fans? Other than the fact that the ref was actually there of course.
Front row can be constituted "mat side". I'm sure once he began the tirade and had to have police escort out, he was definitely "mat side". Doesn't your computer allow you to watch the video?
The judge is a neutral party. From what I have read and watched it doesn’t sound like the official was. At the end of the day I don’t care where he flexed, I was just including that as I didn’t see it posted (definitely didn’t look through all the pages).
It’s a moot point thanks to the poorly written rule on how suspensions can be served.
You know what matside means. Ever heard this on BTN - "now to Shane Sparks matside." It means on the floor and you know it.
You're almost up to 60 posts in this thread and I think you've made your point. Some people, including me, aren't buying your view point. Just deal with it.
If the ref had it out for the kid, he would've done something about it before the match was literally over.
Here is the beginning part of the match:
Several calls which could have easily (and maybe should have) gone against Halter which did not:
0:35 he should've gotten a caution but doesn't
2:23 he could've gotten another caution but it was called on the other kid instead
4:50 could've easily been called for an illegal slam but instead it's a 4-point move for Halter
The ref probably knew the kid because he taught at the kid’s old school. Both moved on but nobody cannot say there could not be bias in that situation, pos or neg.
