Hundreds feared dead in strike on Gaza hospital
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
I can tell you're slightly disappointed. That's because you feel the pull of lefty politics wanting to criticize Israel.
How could a missile in a parking lot kill 500 people?
How could a missile hitting a building kill 500 people? We’ve seen this regularly in Ukraine and often it’s a few people killed.
How would they know it was 500 people?
How did they “know” this so quickly?
If 500 people were actually killed, where are the additional hundreds of wounded?
The building didn’t collapse - how exactly were these people killed? This would be the most lethal weapon ever.
None of this story ever added up.
How could a missile hitting a building kill 500 people? We’ve seen this regularly in Ukraine and often it’s a few people killed.
How would they know it was 500 people?
How did they “know” this so quickly?
If 500 people were actually killed, where are the additional hundreds of wounded?
The building didn’t collapse - how exactly were these people killed? This would be the most lethal weapon ever.
None of this story ever added up.
It didn’t. I would be surprised if the count is over 50.
Perfect excuse to fire up the propaganda machine and get Hezbollah to start doing their dirty work.
I would not be surprised if it’s determined that someone set off a bomb in the parking lot for maximum propaganda purposes.
What are the odds a misfired missile hits a hospital parking lot?
Well if they did set off a bomb in the parking lot it was obviously the Israelis…….. they do stuff like that you know.
It is really odd that he/she does sound disappointed, and immediately moves to something else to criticize Israel about. As a more liberal person I'm having a hard time understanding how some of the liberals seem to be so against Israel.
It's like any other political topic. Your team has a side, a position, and you conform to it.
But yes, it sort of feels like Trump saying "there was very bad people on both sides" after a while.
I don't have a problem with criticizing Israel over X. But it's the moral equivocation argued by some of these people that leave you shaking your head.
Not against Israel, spent five wonderful summers there and loved it. Very much against Netanyahu's fascist government's theft of Palestinian land and the state of apartheid inflicted upon the Palestinians. I condemn the terrorist atrocities committed by Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Palestinian terrorist organizations in the strongest terms possible.
- Sep 13, 2002
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Well in this case we have hundreds of years of documented atrocities from both "sides"
In the Trump case, he was talking about literal Nazis.
I'd say the distinction is deep.
Both Hamas and Israel deserve scorn and criticism - both have horrendous human rights abuse records and in both cases, the leadership has zero interest in pursuing a peaceful resolution.
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I disagree. Yes there have been many bad things that happened throughout history, but we're not much different as a country. We're the only country that dropped A bombs on two cities of civilians. Look what was done to our native Americans. Every country has done some terrible things throughout history.
Colonoscopy is correct, I don't see how anyone can argue the Israel is just as bad as Hamas.
If given the opportunity Hamas would exterminate every Jew (and probably Christian as well) on the planet. I'd have to say that's very close to Nazis.
My point hinged upon the false equivocation being made. Not absolving Israel from any wrongdoing over time.
And my point absolutely stands. There is no moral equivalent between Hamas and Israel.
If Hamas had the power that Israel did, Israel wouldn't exist. Hamas purposefully targets Israel civilians in terrorist attacks. Israel does not.
As moral actors are concerned at this point in time -- and in any recent history I'm aware of -- they're very different.
Hence my Trump reference was spot on. Well the guys that weren't Nazis also did bad stuff.
Hamas is clearly the Nazis here.
That's what some of you guys don't seem to get.
So you don't like Israel? You like to vacation there but you don't care if they're wiped off the map.
No he wasn't. But I'm not going to argue. You know the truth and ignore it.
This is the kind of thing that makes you think I'm maga. There are so many things to hate Trump for it is ridiculous that you make up stuff too. When I call out the bullshit I'm labeled. It's stupid.
Again... Sam Harris absolutely nails this moral equivalence problem some people seem to have:
They're a terrorist organization and they tend to do a lot of lying.
There are several chomping at the bit to turn their hatred onto Israel. You can sense disappointment in some posters that the hospital probably wasn't Israel's fault.
Thanks for sharing. Everyone needs to take the 15 minutes and listen to this.
Correct,.. that is exactly what I think.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 98,815
- 206,870
- 113
Here is a liberal viewpoint on the crisis that I think is nuanced and correct:
HORACIO VILLALOBOS#CORBIS/CORBIS/GETTY IMAGES
Jo-Ann Mort, Michael Walzer/
October 18, 2023
Both of us have spent our entire adult lives advocating for justice for Israelis and Palestinians alike. Within Israel, we have supported our friends on the left who have challenged the Netanyahu government, the settlers’ movement, and the religious zealots. We strongly oppose the claim that only Jews have a right to the land. We vigorously oppose efforts to destroy the judicial system and open the way for an authoritarian politics. We are longtime social democrats who cannot abide attempts to strip civil society and the social safety net from Israelis in a country that has grown economically unequal.
We know some of those who were killed or kidnapped or tortured, especially in the kibbutzim on Israel’s southern border, whose inhabitants are mostly leftists, many of them engaged in efforts to end the occupation in the West Bank and to halt, too, the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the Gaza Strip. They work inside Israel to create a shared society for all Israel’s citizens. But the Hamas attack would be an atrocity whoever its victims were. This is an organization committed to the destruction of Israel and, on the way to that goal, willing and even eager just to kill Jews.
No sovereign nation could withstand an attack like that and fail to respond. The situation in Gaza is especially dire, and the response especially difficult, because Hamas has made it a practice to embed their fighters and their military command within the population, with an elaborate system of tunnels that are burrowed under the civilian population. Hamas protects its leaders but builds no shelters for the people of Gaza. Even as Israel warned the Gazan population to move south to escape the coming warfare in the northern part of the Strip, which is extraordinary difficult to do, Hamas made it harder by publicly opposing the move. Its strategy is to keep Palestinian civilians at risk, as shields against Israeli air and ground forces.
What happened at the Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza is unspeakably horrific. It appears, according to President Biden, that it was a result of an Islamic Jihad missile striking a fuel supply near the hospital. This incident underscores the tragic fact that innocents will die in Gaza in large numbers if this war drags on. Even if Hamas and its ally, Islamic Jihad, are building capacity beneath or near hospitals, it is incumbent on the Israel Defense Forces to be extraordinarily vigilant—among the challenges in fighting a terror group is to not succumb to their terror tactics. We grieve deeply for all innocent victims of this war. It is imperative to get humanitarian aid into Gaza by all available means.
The rules of war apply to asymmetrical as to conventional warfare—that is, to armies organized by a state and supplied with high-tech weapons and to low-tech insurgents, in this case terrorists, who use the people they claim to be defending as camouflage and cover. The high-tech army (think of the French in Algeria or the Americans in Vietnam) does most of the killing and, often, loses the war—politically, if not militarily. The problem for the army is to minimize civilian deaths when the insurgents are doing everything they can to maximize them. That is Israel’s problem now and in the coming weeks.
It would help if journalists on the scene describe how Hamas fights—or simply recall how it fought in the past. In previous wars with Israel, Hamas has fired its rockets from schoolyards and hospital parking lots, from residential neighborhoods with children playing a hundred yards away. Even in crowded Gaza, it is possible to fight from places (the long beaches, for example) that don’t implicate the civilian population. When Hamas doesn’t do that, who is responsible for the civilian deaths that follow when Israel responds?
We don’t mean that as a rhetorical question with an easy answer. The high-tech army also has responsibilities, and these are not easy to meet. It has to do everything it can to prevent civilian injury and death. The crucial question, the hard and agonizing question for any army, goes like this: What risks must its soldiers take to reduce the risks they impose on civilians who are being used, willingly or unwillingly, by the enemy? In the American army, and we assume in the IDF, this is a much-debated question. When General Stanley McCrystal announced new rules of engagement for American soldiers in Afghanistan, designed to reduce civilian casualties, The New York Times reported that some soldiers complained that the new rules made fighting too dangerous. They were probably right. But McCrystal was also right. We hope that Israel has had a McCrystal moment, that the IDF is committed not just to avoiding killing civilians, which doesn’t seem the commitment of the current bombing, but also to acting positively to protect civilians.
But we must be honest: We do want the IDF to win—not a war of revenge but a war for justice. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a failed leader trying to regain his footing, reverted to his usual—and dangerous—rhetoric when he said publicly that “we will take mighty vengeance for this black day.” Israel must seek justice and avoid the temptations of vengeance.
A just victory requires the defeat of Hamas. It is a maxim of just war theory that the rules of war cannot make it impossible to fight a just war. There has to be a way to fight. We believe there is a way, and with our Israeli friends we are ready to insist on that way and to call out war crimes by the IDF with the same vigor and anger as we call out Hamas crimes. This is the way: to fight with restraint, to reject indiscriminate bombing and shelling, to respect enemy civilians (many, many Gazans are opposed to Hamas), and take necessary risks to reduce their risks, and finally to maintain a clear goal: defeat for Hamas. Nothing more.
Israel must also fight with some sense of how the fighting will end and with a vision of the peace that comes after. That last part, a just peace, will require a government in Israel very different from the current government, which has failed its people in every sphere.
It’s important to recall that Israeli governments, mostly led by Benjamin Netanyahu, have pursued a policy of weakening the Palestine Authority created by the Oslo Accords. Any political negotiation would have to be with the Palestinian Authority dominated by the nationalist Fatah movement, and Netanyahu and the Israeli right overall don’t want to negotiate. They don’t want to engage in any talks that might lead to an independent Palestinian state. Like Hamas, they want the whole thing. And so, for them, Hamas was actually preferable to the P.A., since it also wants the whole thing and doesn’t want to negotiate.
That all must end now: The defeat of Hamas must be followed with a revised plan, probably including several key Arab countries, to allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel. Israel needs borders that are internationally recognized, and that means borders that recognize in turn the rights of the two peoples who now coexist in oppression and hatred.
Warfare is the worst and most dangerous way to practice politics, but sometimes it can lead to a better politics afterward. Prepare for that possibility; it will require renewed battles against ultranationalists and religious zealots on both sides—fought, we hope, without deadly weapons. If there ever is an end, we know what it must be: self-determination for two peoples in one land.
Jo-Ann Mort often writes about Israel-Palestine and progressive issues. She is co-author of Our Hearts Invented a Place: Can Kibbutzim Survive in Today’s Israel?
Michael Walzer, professor emeritus at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, is the author of Just and Unjust Wars, among other books.
Israel Must Defeat Hamas—and Then Get Serious About Peace
The defeat of Hamas must be followed with a revised plan, probably including several key Arab countries, to allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel.
HORACIO VILLALOBOS#CORBIS/CORBIS/GETTY IMAGES
Jo-Ann Mort, Michael Walzer/
October 18, 2023
Both of us have spent our entire adult lives advocating for justice for Israelis and Palestinians alike. Within Israel, we have supported our friends on the left who have challenged the Netanyahu government, the settlers’ movement, and the religious zealots. We strongly oppose the claim that only Jews have a right to the land. We vigorously oppose efforts to destroy the judicial system and open the way for an authoritarian politics. We are longtime social democrats who cannot abide attempts to strip civil society and the social safety net from Israelis in a country that has grown economically unequal.
We know some of those who were killed or kidnapped or tortured, especially in the kibbutzim on Israel’s southern border, whose inhabitants are mostly leftists, many of them engaged in efforts to end the occupation in the West Bank and to halt, too, the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the Gaza Strip. They work inside Israel to create a shared society for all Israel’s citizens. But the Hamas attack would be an atrocity whoever its victims were. This is an organization committed to the destruction of Israel and, on the way to that goal, willing and even eager just to kill Jews.
No sovereign nation could withstand an attack like that and fail to respond. The situation in Gaza is especially dire, and the response especially difficult, because Hamas has made it a practice to embed their fighters and their military command within the population, with an elaborate system of tunnels that are burrowed under the civilian population. Hamas protects its leaders but builds no shelters for the people of Gaza. Even as Israel warned the Gazan population to move south to escape the coming warfare in the northern part of the Strip, which is extraordinary difficult to do, Hamas made it harder by publicly opposing the move. Its strategy is to keep Palestinian civilians at risk, as shields against Israeli air and ground forces.
What happened at the Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza is unspeakably horrific. It appears, according to President Biden, that it was a result of an Islamic Jihad missile striking a fuel supply near the hospital. This incident underscores the tragic fact that innocents will die in Gaza in large numbers if this war drags on. Even if Hamas and its ally, Islamic Jihad, are building capacity beneath or near hospitals, it is incumbent on the Israel Defense Forces to be extraordinarily vigilant—among the challenges in fighting a terror group is to not succumb to their terror tactics. We grieve deeply for all innocent victims of this war. It is imperative to get humanitarian aid into Gaza by all available means.
The rules of war apply to asymmetrical as to conventional warfare—that is, to armies organized by a state and supplied with high-tech weapons and to low-tech insurgents, in this case terrorists, who use the people they claim to be defending as camouflage and cover. The high-tech army (think of the French in Algeria or the Americans in Vietnam) does most of the killing and, often, loses the war—politically, if not militarily. The problem for the army is to minimize civilian deaths when the insurgents are doing everything they can to maximize them. That is Israel’s problem now and in the coming weeks.
It would help if journalists on the scene describe how Hamas fights—or simply recall how it fought in the past. In previous wars with Israel, Hamas has fired its rockets from schoolyards and hospital parking lots, from residential neighborhoods with children playing a hundred yards away. Even in crowded Gaza, it is possible to fight from places (the long beaches, for example) that don’t implicate the civilian population. When Hamas doesn’t do that, who is responsible for the civilian deaths that follow when Israel responds?
We don’t mean that as a rhetorical question with an easy answer. The high-tech army also has responsibilities, and these are not easy to meet. It has to do everything it can to prevent civilian injury and death. The crucial question, the hard and agonizing question for any army, goes like this: What risks must its soldiers take to reduce the risks they impose on civilians who are being used, willingly or unwillingly, by the enemy? In the American army, and we assume in the IDF, this is a much-debated question. When General Stanley McCrystal announced new rules of engagement for American soldiers in Afghanistan, designed to reduce civilian casualties, The New York Times reported that some soldiers complained that the new rules made fighting too dangerous. They were probably right. But McCrystal was also right. We hope that Israel has had a McCrystal moment, that the IDF is committed not just to avoiding killing civilians, which doesn’t seem the commitment of the current bombing, but also to acting positively to protect civilians.
But we must be honest: We do want the IDF to win—not a war of revenge but a war for justice. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a failed leader trying to regain his footing, reverted to his usual—and dangerous—rhetoric when he said publicly that “we will take mighty vengeance for this black day.” Israel must seek justice and avoid the temptations of vengeance.
A just victory requires the defeat of Hamas. It is a maxim of just war theory that the rules of war cannot make it impossible to fight a just war. There has to be a way to fight. We believe there is a way, and with our Israeli friends we are ready to insist on that way and to call out war crimes by the IDF with the same vigor and anger as we call out Hamas crimes. This is the way: to fight with restraint, to reject indiscriminate bombing and shelling, to respect enemy civilians (many, many Gazans are opposed to Hamas), and take necessary risks to reduce their risks, and finally to maintain a clear goal: defeat for Hamas. Nothing more.
Israel must also fight with some sense of how the fighting will end and with a vision of the peace that comes after. That last part, a just peace, will require a government in Israel very different from the current government, which has failed its people in every sphere.
It’s important to recall that Israeli governments, mostly led by Benjamin Netanyahu, have pursued a policy of weakening the Palestine Authority created by the Oslo Accords. Any political negotiation would have to be with the Palestinian Authority dominated by the nationalist Fatah movement, and Netanyahu and the Israeli right overall don’t want to negotiate. They don’t want to engage in any talks that might lead to an independent Palestinian state. Like Hamas, they want the whole thing. And so, for them, Hamas was actually preferable to the P.A., since it also wants the whole thing and doesn’t want to negotiate.
That all must end now: The defeat of Hamas must be followed with a revised plan, probably including several key Arab countries, to allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel. Israel needs borders that are internationally recognized, and that means borders that recognize in turn the rights of the two peoples who now coexist in oppression and hatred.
Warfare is the worst and most dangerous way to practice politics, but sometimes it can lead to a better politics afterward. Prepare for that possibility; it will require renewed battles against ultranationalists and religious zealots on both sides—fought, we hope, without deadly weapons. If there ever is an end, we know what it must be: self-determination for two peoples in one land.
Jo-Ann Mort often writes about Israel-Palestine and progressive issues. She is co-author of Our Hearts Invented a Place: Can Kibbutzim Survive in Today’s Israel?
Michael Walzer, professor emeritus at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, is the author of Just and Unjust Wars, among other books.
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The problem in 2023 is that facts don’t matter and don’t guide policy. Memes and social media do
A
anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
Guest
I see Tlaib is not backing down on this….this is the Squad’s version of the Big Lie.
It’s disgusting….I’m severely disillusioned with the far left….I hope they all get voted out, I see no difference between the squad and MTG/Gaetz/Boebert.
It’s disgusting….I’m severely disillusioned with the far left….I hope they all get voted out, I see no difference between the squad and MTG/Gaetz/Boebert.
Here is a liberal viewpoint on the crisis that I think is nuanced and correct:
Israel Must Defeat Hamas—and Then Get Serious About Peace
The defeat of Hamas must be followed with a revised plan, probably including several key Arab countries, to allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel.
HORACIO VILLALOBOS#CORBIS/CORBIS/GETTY IMAGES
Jo-Ann Mort, Michael Walzer/
October 18, 2023
Both of us have spent our entire adult lives advocating for justice for Israelis and Palestinians alike. Within Israel, we have supported our friends on the left who have challenged the Netanyahu government, the settlers’ movement, and the religious zealots. We strongly oppose the claim that only Jews have a right to the land. We vigorously oppose efforts to destroy the judicial system and open the way for an authoritarian politics. We are longtime social democrats who cannot abide attempts to strip civil society and the social safety net from Israelis in a country that has grown economically unequal.
We know some of those who were killed or kidnapped or tortured, especially in the kibbutzim on Israel’s southern border, whose inhabitants are mostly leftists, many of them engaged in efforts to end the occupation in the West Bank and to halt, too, the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the Gaza Strip. They work inside Israel to create a shared society for all Israel’s citizens. But the Hamas attack would be an atrocity whoever its victims were. This is an organization committed to the destruction of Israel and, on the way to that goal, willing and even eager just to kill Jews.
No sovereign nation could withstand an attack like that and fail to respond. The situation in Gaza is especially dire, and the response especially difficult, because Hamas has made it a practice to embed their fighters and their military command within the population, with an elaborate system of tunnels that are burrowed under the civilian population. Hamas protects its leaders but builds no shelters for the people of Gaza. Even as Israel warned the Gazan population to move south to escape the coming warfare in the northern part of the Strip, which is extraordinary difficult to do, Hamas made it harder by publicly opposing the move. Its strategy is to keep Palestinian civilians at risk, as shields against Israeli air and ground forces.
What happened at the Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza is unspeakably horrific. It appears, according to President Biden, that it was a result of an Islamic Jihad missile striking a fuel supply near the hospital. This incident underscores the tragic fact that innocents will die in Gaza in large numbers if this war drags on. Even if Hamas and its ally, Islamic Jihad, are building capacity beneath or near hospitals, it is incumbent on the Israel Defense Forces to be extraordinarily vigilant—among the challenges in fighting a terror group is to not succumb to their terror tactics. We grieve deeply for all innocent victims of this war. It is imperative to get humanitarian aid into Gaza by all available means.
The rules of war apply to asymmetrical as to conventional warfare—that is, to armies organized by a state and supplied with high-tech weapons and to low-tech insurgents, in this case terrorists, who use the people they claim to be defending as camouflage and cover. The high-tech army (think of the French in Algeria or the Americans in Vietnam) does most of the killing and, often, loses the war—politically, if not militarily. The problem for the army is to minimize civilian deaths when the insurgents are doing everything they can to maximize them. That is Israel’s problem now and in the coming weeks.
It would help if journalists on the scene describe how Hamas fights—or simply recall how it fought in the past. In previous wars with Israel, Hamas has fired its rockets from schoolyards and hospital parking lots, from residential neighborhoods with children playing a hundred yards away. Even in crowded Gaza, it is possible to fight from places (the long beaches, for example) that don’t implicate the civilian population. When Hamas doesn’t do that, who is responsible for the civilian deaths that follow when Israel responds?
We don’t mean that as a rhetorical question with an easy answer. The high-tech army also has responsibilities, and these are not easy to meet. It has to do everything it can to prevent civilian injury and death. The crucial question, the hard and agonizing question for any army, goes like this: What risks must its soldiers take to reduce the risks they impose on civilians who are being used, willingly or unwillingly, by the enemy? In the American army, and we assume in the IDF, this is a much-debated question. When General Stanley McCrystal announced new rules of engagement for American soldiers in Afghanistan, designed to reduce civilian casualties, The New York Times reported that some soldiers complained that the new rules made fighting too dangerous. They were probably right. But McCrystal was also right. We hope that Israel has had a McCrystal moment, that the IDF is committed not just to avoiding killing civilians, which doesn’t seem the commitment of the current bombing, but also to acting positively to protect civilians.
But we must be honest: We do want the IDF to win—not a war of revenge but a war for justice. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a failed leader trying to regain his footing, reverted to his usual—and dangerous—rhetoric when he said publicly that “we will take mighty vengeance for this black day.” Israel must seek justice and avoid the temptations of vengeance.
A just victory requires the defeat of Hamas. It is a maxim of just war theory that the rules of war cannot make it impossible to fight a just war. There has to be a way to fight. We believe there is a way, and with our Israeli friends we are ready to insist on that way and to call out war crimes by the IDF with the same vigor and anger as we call out Hamas crimes. This is the way: to fight with restraint, to reject indiscriminate bombing and shelling, to respect enemy civilians (many, many Gazans are opposed to Hamas), and take necessary risks to reduce their risks, and finally to maintain a clear goal: defeat for Hamas. Nothing more.
Israel must also fight with some sense of how the fighting will end and with a vision of the peace that comes after. That last part, a just peace, will require a government in Israel very different from the current government, which has failed its people in every sphere.
It’s important to recall that Israeli governments, mostly led by Benjamin Netanyahu, have pursued a policy of weakening the Palestine Authority created by the Oslo Accords. Any political negotiation would have to be with the Palestinian Authority dominated by the nationalist Fatah movement, and Netanyahu and the Israeli right overall don’t want to negotiate. They don’t want to engage in any talks that might lead to an independent Palestinian state. Like Hamas, they want the whole thing. And so, for them, Hamas was actually preferable to the P.A., since it also wants the whole thing and doesn’t want to negotiate.
That all must end now: The defeat of Hamas must be followed with a revised plan, probably including several key Arab countries, to allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel. Israel needs borders that are internationally recognized, and that means borders that recognize in turn the rights of the two peoples who now coexist in oppression and hatred.
Warfare is the worst and most dangerous way to practice politics, but sometimes it can lead to a better politics afterward. Prepare for that possibility; it will require renewed battles against ultranationalists and religious zealots on both sides—fought, we hope, without deadly weapons. If there ever is an end, we know what it must be: self-determination for two peoples in one land.
Jo-Ann Mort often writes about Israel-Palestine and progressive issues. She is co-author of Our Hearts Invented a Place: Can Kibbutzim Survive in Today’s Israel?
Michael Walzer, professor emeritus at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, is the author of Just and Unjust Wars, among other books.
You do know that most of what is said doesn't back what you previously posted, right?
- Sep 13, 2002
- 98,815
- 206,870
- 113
If that's the case then I didn't communicate well as this article pretty much perfectly aligns with my thoughts on the Israel-Palestine situation.
I would add, however, that the entire notion of a centuries-long, bloody and anti-humanitarian conflict over the tenets of religion and real estate is complete and utter insanity and displays the very worst traits of the human condition. I feel quite sincerely about that.
One thing to keep in mind is that Jews have been kicked out of countries or killed throughout history. They finally have their own country and they believe that groups are trying to take it away. They couldn't fight when they were forced out of other countries. The only reason these wars are about religion are because other people hate Jews and want them dead. Right now many countries are on high alert. Are any of those high alerts because there's a concern Jews are going to blow things up or start shooting people? No, it's other groups that have made this about religion.
You've never had to fight to be able to practice what you believe. You've never been kicked out of the country you were born in because of what you believe. What you consider insanity has been a reality for Jews for a long long time.
Today’s #1 problem with “the media” centers around what is news and how (and who) can manipulate it first...Accuracy of the story (facts) is often a tertiary factor in what people read, especially via social media.”The Big Lie” Of Nazi Germany is alive and well in today’s 21st century. It exists all across the world and in all countries and societies. As opposed to getting and studying “ the facts” of this latest massacre, “news media sources” instead concentrated on the sensational and as time goes by, the obviously false narrative that one of the “victim combatants” was pushing. Devoid of facts and truth, Hamas got their people out, into the streets and raising hell for raising hells sake! It reminded me of the old college bonfire the night before the big homecoming game! What really bothers me is with the world’s short attention span, two days later, the facts come out, the lie is being exposed....but no one really seems to care. 
Yet the MSM ran with it. Might have been some of the most irresponsible reporting of a major news event in a while which is saying something.
The coverage sparked protests throughout the ME, put US embassy personnel in danger.
Inexcusable IMO.
No, he was right. People like you are disgusting. Israel is fighting not just for their country but for them to even exist and all you want to do is criticize them every chance you get.
Yea, but, Bibi is bad in their eyes, so somehow that makes both sides evil. Palestinians want to eradicate the Jews? Yea, but don’t forget about Netanyahu!
It’s scary how many people we have that are so tied up in their own political identity that they refuse to see what’s right in front of their faces. They would rather sympathize with terrorists and people who want to see the Jews wiped off the face of the earth than back Israel and it’s people’s right to exist because it doesn’t align with their political beliefs. Insanity.
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Well, you people certainly have your blinders on about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and their flouting of international law and human rights. I fully support Israel's right to defend itself, but that doesn't excuse their human rights violations and illegal commandeering of Palestinian land for the construction if illegal settlements.
Not even close. Look at my posting history from the last two weeks. The blame game can be placed a lot of different places over the last 100 years.
For the last time, one group wants to live peacefully and the other wants the other group wiped off the face of the earth. One side teaches school students the glorification of being a martyr and fighting the enemies of Islam and the other doesn’t. One side sacrifices their citizens lives, including women and children, for your sympathy, and the other side doesn’t.
The fact you’re having issues figuring out who to support says a lot about you.
Based on your response you don't like Israel and haven't for a very long time. So at this point Israel will never be able to do something right in your eyes, they'll only be able to do bad things. You will continue to look for the negatives of anything Israel does no matter what hamas does. I can tell that you wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep if every Jew was killed by hamas.
What you're see with people like cig is the old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Cig has a problem with Jews for some reason and so he's now "friends" with hamas. There's no way he'll ever be able to get past his dislike for Jews in order to understand what you're saying.
Because people thought it was a safe haven from the bombing.
