If you pay off your mortgage and

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

financial folks. I owe 133k on the house at 2.75. I could pay it off or just keep doing what I’m doing. What’s your thoughts?

Not a financial guy but I will say the freedom from having a mortgage is absolutely therapeutic to one’s stress level, plus we have lots of cash to do whatever we want. Not sure what your numbers are but we were under $50k balance when it was paid off….

 

[jawatkins]

Not a financial guy but I will say the freedom from having a mortgage is absolutely therapeutic to one’s stress level, plus we have lots of cash to do whatever we want. Not sure what your numbers are but we were under $50k balance when it was paid off….

Around 170k in float. Owe 133k on house. I have 300k+ in retirement. I think ill pay off the house even with small interest

 

[abby97]

Didn't realize this thread was about to turn into a Radical Right circle jerk.

You better clean yourself up then because 90% of this board is nothing but leftist circle jerks, you must be getting pretty messy by now.

 

[praguehawk]

Your the financial statement you gave the bank was too high, should you be fined?

 

[markfromj]

Your the financial statement you gave the bank was too high, should you be fined?

I don’t get the connection between paying off a mortgage and the question here.

 

[ThorneStockton]

This isn't new from the OP. Elderly or vulnerably stupid? Doesn't really matter, because either way he's probably not fitting into the "should know better" group.

 

[ping72]

You better clean yourself up then because 90% of this board is nothing but leftist circle jerks, you must be getting pretty messy by now.

And you keep coming back, dreaming one day it’ll morph into a bukkake with you in the middle.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I don’t get the connection between paying off a mortgage and the question here.

You know the OP thought he was being very clever when he typed it out. Probably almost giddy.

 

[FranklinHawk]

What is a mortgage?

 

[Carolina Hawk]

You know the OP thought he was being very clever when he typed it out. Probably almost giddy.

Yep, if I paid off my mortgage and I had made all the previous payments in full and on time why would my mortgage company need to see my financial statements? Just send my payoff letter and STFU..

 

[theVoicefromtheTomb]

This, or anyone's word really. It's on the lender to do an appraisal, but what they REALLY care about is whether the loan is going to get paid back, and as long as they're satisfied with that, then the value of the property becomes less important to them.

At that point...who really cares what the DA or anyone else not involved in the deal thinks. They have no stake in the game, although the state will assess the value for tax purposes, which is generally much lower than the market value.

Funny

i thought banks really cared about profits?

 

[coloradonoles]

Construction loan financing is apparently another in a long list of topics that most of you know nothing about...

You clowns are laughable.

 

[TennNole17]

How was the state harmed? Its not shocking Trump overvalued assets...he exaggerates everything. But, I still don't get the "crime" here.

 

[ThorneStockton]

How was the state harmed? Its not shocking Trump overvalued assets...he exaggerates everything. But, I still don't get the "crime" here.

I'm sure you'll get a handful of posters willing to explain, but have you read anything about it at all or made any effort to figure it out independently?

 

[ISUBryceC]

Buffett is a tax dodger

He's in good company then.

Trump made up injury to dodge Vietnam service, his former lawyer testifies

Michael Cohen told lawmakers that Trump said it would be 'stupid' to serve in Vietnam.

www.militarytimes.com

How was the state harmed? Its not shocking Trump overvalued assets...he exaggerates everything. But, I still don't get the "crime" here.

It's extremely clear. He received much better terms on his loans by overstating the value of his assets. I don't get why this is hard for people.

 

[artradley]

Okay, so based on the context here I am able to understand what the OP was trying to ask. Worded in a more clear manner, I believe the question is this:

If, when applying for a real estate loan, I lie about my assets, income, etc. in order to obtain that loan, should my fraud still be punishable if I successfully pay the loan back?

 

[TennNole17]

I'm sure you'll get a handful of posters willing to explain, but have you read anything about it at all or made any effort to figure it out independently?

Most of the articles I read discuss the penalty and fines, I haven’t seen much analysis from a legal perspective - other than shallow analogies like OP.

Again- not surprised Trump exaggerated, but isn’t the lender under obligation to appraise the asset they are lending against? Maybe it’s complicated, and I’m simple.

I saw one argument that Trump had all of Duestche funds tied up, so other people couldn’t borrow but that made no sense to me

 

[theVoicefromtheTomb]

Okay, so based on the context here I am able to understand what the OP was trying to ask. Worded in a more clear manner, I believe the question is this:

If, when applying for a real estate loan, I lie about my assets, income, etc. in order to obtain that loan, should my fraud still be punishable if I successfully pay the loan back?

Thank you for your interpretation. I don’t speak MAGA so this was helpful. So the argument is, yes, Trump committed fraud but it was a victimless crime therefore he should not be punished. Apparently the fact this is “victimless” would justfy voting for a known fraud.

Let’s ignore the poor logic of that conclusion and focus on the potential victims of the crime. The rationale for Trump committing fraud is simple. If he overinflated his balance sheet he would have a lower interest on the loan. Lower interest means lower costs therefore a higher profit than would be justified.

If Trump had excess profits then economics dictates that someone bore an economic loss. By loaning to Trump at a discounted rate the banks earned less profit than they should have. Each bank enters into a loan having an expected probability of default. This is part of their costs. The banks underestimated their costs associated with the loan and made less profit than they should have. The owners of the bank are losers even if Trump pays back the loan.

There is a second set of losers. The borrowers who were more deserving than Trump and didn’t get a loan because that money went to Trump. And that affects all of us because the goods and services they would have provide were not available to us.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Most of the articles I read discuss the penalty and fines, I haven’t seen much analysis from a legal perspective - other than shallow analogies like OP.

Again- not surprised Trump exaggerated, but isn’t the lender under obligation to appraise the asset they are lending against? Maybe it’s complicated, and I’m simple.

I saw one argument that Trump had all of Duestche funds tied up, so other people couldn’t borrow but that made no sense to me

Thanks for clarifying, sounds like you tried, that's more effort than lots of people make. I don't have an interest in trying to explain anything, I was just curious what efforts you had already made to self educate.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Don't know...but if you lie about the value of your property intentionally to benefit from it financially, that's fraud.

Lied? I think it's worth A LOT, I think it's worth more than you'll give me. How is that a lie?

 

[TennNole17]

Thanks for clarifying, sounds like you tried, that's more effort than lots of people make. I don't have an interest in trying to explain anything, I was just curious what efforts you had already made to self educate.

Found something on NYtimes about the law used for the case, 63(12), which again- beyond my scope when it comes to law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-ny-law.html

When its a complicated issue that can't be "broken down" into simple analogies, simple people assume they are having the wool pulled over their eyes- probably the case here.

 

[MitchLL]

You better clean yourself up then because 90% of this board is nothing but leftist circle jerks, you must be getting pretty messy by now.

The reason it's 90% is because the Radical Right has no reasonable explanation for their POV and have simply stopped trying to explain it.

It used to be 50/50 around here.

 

[Aardvark86]

Let's be honest, prosecutors don't typically get worked up when putative victims are not harmed. But with that said, when the state acts wearing its civil or criminal enforcement hat (rather than its contracting party hat), the remedies which they seek or may be entitled to are more about social signaling rather than damage recoupment (or even victims). That's why most "Chuck Grassley I passed the false claims act as a union soldier when Lincoln asked me to with his dying breath" settlements are in the gazillions. It's the penalties, not the damages.

And with that said, I have no views on the appropriateness of the penalty amounts under whatever the state law standard may be, but there are probably a few thin spots in that particular ice if it gets pursued.

 

[artradley]

Lied? I think it's worth A LOT, I think it's worth more than you'll give me. How is that a lie?

“Remember Jerry, it’s not a lie if you believe it.”

 

[Joes Place]

Your the financial statement you gave the bank was too high, should you be fined?

What if you gave them false financial statements, so you could get a 3% loan rate, instead of a 9% or 10% (or even higher) for a loan that wasn't actually "secured"?

And you benefitted from that fraudulent loan rate against business competitors, who DID properly disclose their finances?

You seem somewhat oblivious to what your buddy and idol Trump actually did.

 

[Joes Place]

This is why Trump is so screwed and selling rubes sneakers that haven’t been made, yet. He’s so over leveraged he cannot pay his fines. He lied so much he piled on a mountain of debt he can’t raise any real cash.

Well.....he COULD, but his BFF is busy throwing piles of cash into his own failed military escapade....

 

[ICHawk-I]

How am I the only person who has no idea what you are saying?

What kind of financial statement do you have to make when paying off a mortgage?

Stop ruining OPs whataboutism! Just admit we all do it and that Trump is innocent. You're making this difficult!

 

[ICHawk-I]

And you benefitted from that fraudulent loan rate against business competitors, who DID properly disclose their finances?

You seem somewhat oblivious willfully ignorant to what your buddy and idol Trump actually did.

FIFY

 

[Rifler]

In all cases, the lender will develop their own valuation for any assets to be used for collateral on a real estate loan,.. They really don't care what the owner might claim his property is worth.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

You seem somewhat oblivious to what your buddy and idol Trump actually did.

Maga scum are oblivious to everything.

 

[NoleinATL]

The guy is garbage, but this should not be a state concern.

Banks pay millions to their underwriters, risk assessment officers, and internal audit teams.
If those people paid by the bank accept the information provided, validate said information, and lend the money, that is a business transaction that has resolution language in the lending agreement.

 

[1inamillion]

In all cases, the lender will develop their own valuation for any assets to be used for collateral on a real estate loan,.. They really don't care what the owner might claim his property is worth.

I'm pretty sure if common joe applied for a 3 million dollar loan for his house they[the bank, tradley] would ask for a financial statement and not take his word that he had sufficient funds to qualify. Just so tradley knows that the bank is probably as culpable and more at risk than the person seeking the loan.

 

[NoleinATL]

financial folks. I owe 133k on the house at 2.75. I could pay it off or just keep doing what I’m doing. What’s your thoughts?

What percent are you making on your 133k currently? If you realize a return greater than 2.75%, you should not pay off your house, as you would be negatively impacting your retirement income.

Also-If you are not earning more than 2.75%, consider changing financial advisors.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

How was the state harmed? Its not shocking Trump overvalued assets...he exaggerates everything. But, I still don't get the "crime" here.

It's called fraud. That he got away with it doesn't make it legal, you know.

 

[artradley]

What percent are you making on your 133k currently? If you realize a return greater than 2.75%, you should not pay off your house, as you would be negatively impacting your retirement income.

Also-If you are not earning more than 2.75%, consider changing financial advisors.

I generally agree with that philosophy, and subscribe to it myself. However, I would point out a couple of things. First, depending on their tax bracket they might have to be earning 5% or 6% before taxes to be equal to paying the 2.75% mortgage. Second, there is value to the emotional well-being people feel by not having debt. For a lot of people, even if you can show them the math that says the can probably expect to do a couple hundred dollars better if they keep the mortgage, they would make that trade for the peace of mind.

 

[NoleinATL]

I generally agree with that philosophy, and subscribe to it myself. However, I would point out a couple of things. First, depending on their tax bracket they might have to be earning 5% or 6% before taxes to be equal to paying the 2.75% mortgage. Second, there is value to the emotional well-being people feel by not having debt. For a lot of people, even if you can show them the math that says the can probably expect to do a couple hundred dollars better if they keep the mortgage, they would make that trade for the peace of mind.

I agree with everything you said, which is why I love my financial guy.
I am data-driven; the no pic wife is more "well-being hippy need to save the world we do well enough" driven. In 20+ years our primary advisor has never made a comment unrelated to data

 

[Joes Place]

In all cases, the lender will develop their own valuation for any assets to be used

Except, Trump fed them false information on the same assets.
Which is illegal.

 

[Joes Place]

I'm pretty sure if common joe applied for a 3 million dollar loan for his house they[the bank, tradley] would ask for a financial statement

And Trump falsified his financial statements.

Get it?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

How was the state harmed? Its not shocking Trump overvalued assets...he exaggerates everything. But, I still don't get the "crime" here.

It's extremely clear. He received much better terms on his loans by overstating the value of his assets. I don't get why this is hard for people.

Not only that, it was systematic over years and years. Overvalue assets for loans, undervalue them for real estate tax.

Do it once or twice and no one gets hurt - it's not gonna get attention. Do it for a career and the AG will have something to say about it.

 

[Rifler]

Except, Trump fed them false information on the same assets.
Which is illegal.

Even if true, doesn't really matter, as the bank would have disregarded any information provided by Trump and set their own valuation,... Nobody was a victim here.