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Interesting news coming out about about Freddy Gray

I don't have a ton of time to be on here today as it's finals week, but I thought, as someone who has actually been placed in police custody and driven in one of these vehicles, I could provide a bit of insight.

On Halloween night in 2008, I was out at a bar in South Bend, Indiana with 3 friends. We were in town for the Pitt/ND game. We were having a nice time at the bar, dressed as "Frat Douchebags" and drinking the wonderful $15 RedBull/Vodka pitchers this bar likes to sell. I had a few too many, went outside and was sitting on the curb texting people. Eventually one of my friends comes out and convinces me to come back inside to get our friends and head back to my brother's house. On the way back in, there was a miscommunication between me and the bouncer (read: he was a dick and tried to charge me a 2nd cover and I wasn't really nice in my reply). A seemingly decent police officer came over to try to calm me down, but at that point, I was pretty much a lost cause. I said something really crappy to the cop and he put me in handcuffs, which only made me get more lippy. I proceeded to slam me into the concrete wall outside the bar, into the street lamp post, onto the sidewalk itself, and then onto the trunk of the car. Afterward a while he transferred me (and my friend who got arrested for, I kid you not, calling the officer "sir" against the officer's orders) into a wagon. We were not properly secured. I know this because I was able to get my phone out and text the other two friends that "Matt and I are in the paddy wagon and going downtown", to which they replied "cool, what bar?" (smart friends). I can tell you that I cracked my body/head into random walls of the wagon at least 3 times, and eventually fell onto the floor. When we got to the station they had to pick me up off the floor (no easy task, as I was about 330lbs at the time). I am not sure I'd say that the cops gave us a "rough ride" per se, but pretty much every ride in one of those things, if not properly secured, while handcuffed, will be a rough ride. If you were trying to make it rough, it would be extremely rough.

Now, the reason that I think they did this? Not because I was overly dickish to the cop. He'd probably heard what I said and worse 100 times in his career. But because it was 2am, and he was working at a bar, on Halloween, with a bunch of rich white kid ND students acting a fool, and here was this big drunk idiot saying shit to him. It upset him, and made him act out of character (I hope).

Now, fast forward to Baltimore. Historically violent city. Very black city (64% black). A lot of drug crime (Sheeeeiiiiiiit). These cops probably act a certain way because of the environment that they are in. It's conditioned them. And then something like this happens, and it comes out from the darkness that cops treat blacks like shit, and everyone is surprised.

I have admittedly been unable to really pay too much attention on this situation, only able to get bits and pieces from my occasional glances at Twitter or CNN.com, so I don't know all the details. But to claim the cops aren't at fault here is ridiculous. Once you've put someone in custody, they are in your custody. You can't throw your hands up after and say you aren't sure what happened to them.

Just my $.02

Also, as a bonus, here's a sweet pic of the frat boys and aforementioned $15 RBV pitchers taken a few hours before this happened (yeah, I woulda tossed me into a wall too, but, keep in mind it was Halloween...)
1290_649520728191_1916_n.jpg


Were your hands cuffed in front or behind you?
 
Behind. I was so fat (seriously) that they used 2 sets of cuffs so I could get the phone out of my pocket and off to my side.

That's what caught my eye. Having been former military law enforcement, and having been in cuffs in training....they really do restrict your movement. Not at all saying your story was made up. But the statement about texting jumped out at me.

BTW......you got treated the way you did....because you ran your mouth...and continued to run your mouth once they tried to calm you down. Which was no fault but your own. I ran my mouth to a cop once in HS....and was instantly put up against a wall and was told very matter of factly that if I didn't close my mouth that I would be arrested. I immediately shut up, because I knew that dealing with the wrath of my father would be something to remember if I had been arrested.

He accused me of drag racing with my buddy...which we were not. But he saw a kid in a muscle car, accelerating very quickly from a stop light and nabbed me. Of course being 18 and full of idiocy....i got out of the car and protested........which was dumber than running my mouth.
 
"Without knowing ANY of the facts"?? A you effing kidding me?! Did you see the video? Did you see him being beaten and then dragged as a limp object to the van? Those are FACTS.
Lol. That is not where the injury occurred. What does that have to do his spinal injury? Its been stated it happened while in custody and people on here just assume the cops did more to him in the van or where ever and as of now we do not know that is true. good land.
 
This sort of treatment of suspects and prisoners is what we read about in Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia or Pinochet's Chile or banana republics or the Jim Crow South or.... It's simply not acceptable in America.

I simply can''t believe how many Americans look harder for ways to excuse and even justify such behavior than for ways to correct this glaring problem with our so-called justice system.

Instead of pontificating on an off topic footbal forum,why not put your money where your mouth is and go join the protesters.
 
Consider me a bit skeptical of any story that police attempt to sell as a cover story 2+ weeks after the fact. Especially considering they wouldn't even allow the officers involved to be interviewed after the incident.

But, those that wanted to absolve the police will lap up this shaky story, all while criticizing others for jumping to conclusions.
Let's see the autopsy report. That should shed some light on what injuries were sustained and the manner in which they occurred.
 
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Too bad you don't get this bent out of shape about the black on black violence in Chicago or the outright murdering of Christians in every damn part of the world. You just like to pick and choose what the progressive agenda is focusing on for the day, or whatever e-mail you receive from the DNC to be angry about.
Have you been watching the news? Like every other commentator is a Reverend of some sort. Progressives are standing up for Christians it would seem.
 
WWJD,can you link a video of his beating

This is the best they have so far it seems. Sounds like they bent him up pretty good "like a pretzel' and had a knee on the back of his neck while he screamed 'ow, my neck!'. Then, when they lift him up, it appears as though there may be some damage/paralysis of his legs.

 
Lol. That is not where the injury occurred. What does that have to do his spinal injury? Its been stated it happened while in custody and people on here just assume the cops did more to him in the van or where ever and as of now we do not know that is true. good land.

In the first place, the guy DIED. You make it sound like the only important fact to be determined is when and how the spine injury occurred. That's simply wrong.

Second, you seem to be sure that the spine injury did not occur during the initial beat-down. You cannot possibly know that. Might have, might not have. Regardless of where any individual injuries happened, it's pretty clear they happened when he was in custody. The details are important for determining who bears how much responsibility - but not for recognizing that there IS responsibility.

None of the shuck-and-jive defenses we are hearing change the fact that he was beaten and died. If we ever get beyond trying to blame the victim, THEN the details can be put to good use - both for ascertaining blame, if that's appropriate, and for deciding how to handle situations like this better.
 
They bent his leg and had a knee on his back..not a beating that wwjd claims....not even close. That doesn't men they didn't do anything in the van.
 
WWJD, I don't know what happened..but I can assure you that if you think the video shows a beating...you are indeed a pussy..the force it would take to break a vertebrae Aren't present there.
 
This is the best they have so far it seems. Sounds like they bent him up pretty good "like a pretzel' and had a knee on the back of his neck while he screamed 'ow, my neck!'. Then, when they lift him up, it appears as though there may be some damage/paralysis of his legs.


I tried but failed to find the clip that showed the end of the scuffle when he was brought down. That's the earliest I recall seeing. All I can find now are clips that begin after he was subdued. They show the cops releasing their grip and Gray's leg unfolding from the position a witness described as a pretzel. You see Gray being dragged to the van (he's upright with the cops supporting his weight as his feet drag). He exhibits what look to me like some voluntary motions of his head and one leg, so he isn't completely paralyzed but you can't tell how badly he might (or might not) be injured beyond that.
 
WWJD, I don't know what happened..but I can assure you that if you think the video shows a beating...you are indeed a pussy..the force it would take to break a vertebrae Aren't present there.

Tell me oh wise serial name-caller, how much force do you need to apply to a knee in the neck to cause damage?
 
Tell me oh wise serial name-caller, how much force do you need to apply to a knee in the neck to cause damage?
Do football players sever their spines without the head in flexion? Without flexion, a great deal of axial compression, or severe rotation.....it would take a degree of force greater than a knee... if his head is rotated a great deal and the officer dropped his knee onto his neck, he could have a neurological insult, but not to the degree he ended with. And regardless of the pretzel.....that wasn't close to a beating. I won't call you a pussy, but Jesus...not even close to a beating.
 
If the Al Sharptons of the world truly gave a crap on that violence, they would be singing from the mountaintops at every instance that this happens in the so-called "black community". He'd be on TV 24/7/365.

Right now, at this very moment I type this, a black on black murder is about to be committed. And nobody gives two craps about it....so spare me the cops angle in all this until the powers that be on that side of the house start caring about the other 99.9999% of blacks killed in this country by blacks. Take ownership of "your own house".

Nobody gives a damn about most of the MUCH MORE FREQUENT white-on-white murders, either.

This is violence by people who are supposed to be the good guys. That's why it's outrageous.
 
Our society has to stop running with narratives, slogans, and platitudes and start dealing with reality.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing in running to this board to post that the "narrative" was wrong....posting another narrative, which may in fact be false?
 
That's what caught my eye. Having been former military law enforcement, and having been in cuffs in training....they really do restrict your movement. Not at all saying your story was made up. But the statement about texting jumped out at me.

BTW......you got treated the way you did....because you ran your mouth...and continued to run your mouth once they tried to calm you down. Which was no fault but your own. I ran my mouth to a cop once in HS....and was instantly put up against a wall and was told very matter of factly that if I didn't close my mouth that I would be arrested. I immediately shut up, because I knew that dealing with the wrath of my father would be something to remember if I had been arrested.

He accused me of drag racing with my buddy...which we were not. But he saw a kid in a muscle car, accelerating very quickly from a stop light and nabbed me. Of course being 18 and full of idiocy....i got out of the car and protested........which was dumber than running my mouth.

Interesting, it is "his fault", so you could cite me to the laws that back that assertion up, right? I mean, surely, we don't live in a society where Law Enforcement is granted all rights, except those which we take away. Surely they must follow the laws that give them authority. Maybe I just missed the authority for them to simply shut people up.
 
Isn't that exactly what you are doing in running to this board to post that the "narrative" was wrong....posting another narrative, which may in fact be false?
Say go what I've heard is running with a narrative?

Did I keep touting it as fact and ignoring any evidence to the contrary? Nope I didn't. Just reported what was being said and haven't shouted anyone down for saying the opposite.


Maybe you should read a little closer next time
 
Interesting, it is "his fault", so you could cite me to the laws that back that assertion up, right? I mean, surely, we don't live in a society where Law Enforcement is granted all rights, except those which we take away. Surely they must follow the laws that give them authority. Maybe I just missed the authority for them to simply shut people up.
You know what.... You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Plus he admits to being drunk and unruly. So they already had their justification to take him in. Running your mouth only guarantees it.
 
Say go what I've heard is running with a narrative?

Did I keep touting it as fact and ignoring any evidence to the contrary? Nope I didn't. Just reported what was being said and haven't shouted anyone down for saying the opposite.


Maybe you should read a little closer next time

Your very first post is saying "Interesting News...." as in, "Hey, that story was BS guys, I knew it all along! And then posts after that bring in to question exactly what you've said. Yes, you are creating a narrative just as much as anyone else.
 
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/second-man-in-police-transport-van-speaks-out/32669692

The dude in the van (the one still alive) talks.

West Baltimore resident Donte Allen, 22, was the second man loaded into the police van near the end of the run on April 12.

He raised controversy with what he told police because he told them something he really he had to speculate on because he wouldn't have known for sure.

"On the morning of April 12, I went into a store right here at Penn/North Avenue to get a cigarette," Allen said.

Allen was picked up by city police at the corner of Pennsylvania and North avenues on a suspicion of a minor offense. The city's camera system recorded the van that arrived and picked up Allen. It was the same van that was carrying Gray.

More: CCTV video released

VIDEO: Police release CCTV video in Freddie Gray case
Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van. Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them.

Allen described what he heard: "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging."

Asked whether he told police whether he heard Gray banging his head against the van, Allen said, "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing."

According to the autopsy on Gray, there is no evidence that Gray hit his head against anything on his own. His fatal neck and spinal injury was a kin to the type suffered in a car accident; it needed that amount of force and energy.
 
Apparently the cops made an unreported stop.

The police transport van ferrying Freddie Gray made an additional, previously unreported stop during his transfer, Baltimore Deputy Commissioner Kevin Davis said Thursday.

The stop was at an unspecified location between Gray’s arrest and the department’s Western District building, CNN reported.
Baltimore police gleaned the new fact from a report generated by a task force investigating the incident.

Gray, 25, died while in police custody in an incident that sparked riots this week in Baltimore. He reportedly suffered a severed spine while in custody.

“I wanted a sense of urgency on this case to get the results out there,” Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts told The New York Times.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...olice-van-carrying-gray-made-undisclosed-stop
 
Watching them interview people on msnbc, and people wonder where stereotypes come from....holy shit.
 
I'm going on record that someone will lose their job, but no prison time. It's going to be a negligence case, where the pd is liable for his death. Like Mike, Freddy was a douche, with a much longer record. I'd say good riddance if he was white, but since he's not, I'll say it deeply saddens me.
 
What are Christian rights?
like to not participate in a wedding of two dudes as a caterer, etc. I'd be at the wedding and reception having a great time, but I wouldn't force someone to be there. What was your point? Did either of those two men provide any positives to society? If it makes you feel better, George Zimmerman is a douche as well. I get it, I'm a prick, but I get tired of people acting like this dude was a saint....same with Brown.
 
like to not participate in a wedding of two dudes as a caterer, etc. I'd be at the wedding and reception having a great time, but I wouldn't force someone to be there. What was your point? Did either of those two men provide any positives to society? If it makes you feel better, George Zimmerman is a douche as well. I get it, I'm a prick, but I get tired of people acting like this dude was a saint....same with Brown.

I respect that you answered, honestly, I have no further comment.

I should ask Natural, is a gay wedding better than a straight one? Stereotypically I would fear they worry too much about it being perfect.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/3...-arrest-once-hospitalized-over-mental-health/
Police officer in Freddie Gray arrest once hospitalized over mental health

BALTIMORE – The highest-ranking Baltimore police officer in the arrest that led to Freddie Gray's death was hospitalized in April 2012 over mental health concerns for an unknown duration and had his guns confiscated by local sheriff's deputies, according to records from the sheriff's office and court obtained by The Associated Press.

Lt. Brian Rice, who initially pursued Gray on a Baltimore street when Gray fled after Rice made eye contact April 12, declared three years ago that he "could not continue to go on like this" and threatened to commit an act that was censored in the public version of a report obtained by the AP from the Carroll County, Maryland, Sheriff's Office. Rice lived in the county, about 35 miles northwest of Baltimore. At the time, deputies were responding to a request to check on his welfare by a fellow Baltimore police officer who is the mother of Rice's son.

Deputies reported that Rice appeared "normal and soft spoken" and said he had been seeking "sympathy and attention." But citing "credible information," the deputies confiscated both his official and personal guns, called his commanding officer and transported Rice to the Carroll Hospital Center. The weapons included his .40-caliber police pistol, a 9 mm handgun, an AK-47-style rifle, a .22-caliber rifle and two shotguns.

It was not immediately clear how long Rice was at the hospital or whether he went on his own accord. Rice declined to speak with the AP or discuss allegations in a subsequent court filing that he had behaved in erratic or threatening ways toward family members. When the AP visited Rice's home last week and left a note requesting an interview, Rice called the sheriff's department to report the visit as trespassing. Karen McAleer, the mother of his son, also declined to speak with the AP.

The events described in the 2012 report provided the basis for one of at least two administrative suspensions for Rice in 2012 and 2013, a person familiar with the police department staff said. This person spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss confidential personnel matters.

The incidents described in the sheriff's report and court records involving Rice's personal problems portray allegations of concerns about self-control and judgment, as Baltimore police and the Justice Department investigate the injuries that Gray, 25, sustained in police custody. Police have said Gray ran after making eye contact with Rice. After a brief chase, Gray was arrested "without force or incident," according to a report filled out by one of the officers, though witness video shows officers kneeling around Gray while he screams. After being transported in the back of a police van, Gray was found unable to talk or breathe and died one week later from spinal trauma.
 
I respect that you answered, honestly, I have no further comment.

I should ask Natural, is a gay wedding better than a straight one? Stereotypically I would fear they worry too much about it being perfect.
With one notable exception, all the gay wedding receptions I have been to were nearly indistinguishable from straight wedding receptions. People dress traditionally, maybe play better music IMO, serve passable but not stellar food and feature an open bar. There are lots of straight people and kids. I imagine if you didn't pay close attention you wouldn't even know the couple was gay at most. I have been invited to one notable exception that featured shirtless guys in harnesses pulling in the grooms in some egyption contraption out of the Madonna Super Bowl performance, so it happens. And we gays hire other gays to worry about perfection, we know how to let our hair down.

The wedding ceremony may be different, but I may not be the best judge. Most of the straight weddings I've been to have been catholic or Lutheran. The gay marriages seemed a little new age by comparison but maybe that's how Unitarians and episcopalians do things normally.
 
You know what.... You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Plus he admits to being drunk and unruly. So they already had their justification to take him in. Running your mouth only guarantees it.

I wasn't unruly.

I was drunk. With about 1000 other people. I took exception to someone trying to rip me off for $10. I think the cop was pretty out of line. I deserved a public intoxication about as much as every person in the ped mall does.

What I said to the cop, was, verbatim, "do you think you've made good career choices, seeing as how you're working security at a bar on halloween?" Not something I would normally say to a cop, also not against any law. The cop was a dick (evidenced by him arresting my friend for saying "sir" too many times).

Additionally, I don't care that I was out of line, how he treated me after was way farther out of line. That was kinda the moral of the story. These guys are human. They break down because they are surrounded by knuckleheads (drunk people with no respect for them, "thugs" for lack of a better term with no respect for them, pissed off motorists who are clearly in the wrong, etc).

That doesn't excuse their behavior. But it explains it. Which is also why I'm pretty quick to say "hell yeah the cop beat the shit out of him because he was black", because, well, that's what cops tend to do. A bunch of them have basically made it their modus operandi. Just like Iowa City (or South Bend, or insert college town name) cops hate drunks, big city (and segregated) cops, by and large, hate black people. It shouldn't really be a surprise when stuff like this happens. It isn't to most of us.
 
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