Iowa recruiting: the challenge

[Ronman]

I have been pretty pro-McCaffery in the past, but as I get older, and more desperate for some real success (Big Ten titles and further advancement in the NCAA's) I have become more neutral. What really bothers me is seeing guards on mid-major teams that would be difference makers for Iowa and were never on Iowa's radar. Many of those kids might have jumped at the chance to play in the B1G.

 

[CO_hawk]

Why do people assume these great gaurds in the mid majors would waltz into the Big10 and perform just as well?

I would bet that would not be the case 80% of the time.

 

[Ronman]

Why do people assume these great gaurds in the mid majors would waltz into the Big10 and perform just as well?

I would bet that would not be the case 80% of the time.

They always play well against us!

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I have not seen anyone call Iowa a "Regional Powerhouse" in basketball since the 80s, and that was just for a few short years when Davis had Raveling's recruits.

IMHO, Iowa is still battling the perceptions that stuck to Iowa through the Alford and Lickliter years. McC has done a decent job of making Iowa a feisty opponent but I don't think it has gone beyond that yet. It could if a few more of the highly-ranked kids start coming to Iowa but McC needs more talent to exceed where he has brought the team. The staff is working on it.

What is the expiration date on Alford and Lickliter excuses? This isn't the 1970's when UCLA and a couple other programs got the best of the best and everyone else got the crumbs. Those days in men's basketball were like women's basketball is today. The men's game has evolved. There is talent all over the country and the globe (see all the talent from Canada). When did anyone talk about basketball + Canada outside of Steve Nash? I would wager that only in state kids who grew up Iowa fans know anything about the Alford or Lickliter years.

Has Fran gotten out of the box in almost 10 years here? I would say no. So keep doing the same things and expect different results? Why do other programs find these under-recruited kids, pull kids from Canada (see Iowa State) and capitalize on transfers when it makes sense? Yes Fran has hit on some kids like Marble, White and Olaseni. Common denominator here is that they were all P5 caliber athletes vs. the too many obvious misses Fran has had that clearly were not.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Lolz. Who says lolz?

Fran has been here nine seasons which is how you calculate a coach’s tenure in sports. Since this thread is about recruiting and Fran has been able to recruit since day one, I’ll allow the ten years. I don’t like it, but I’ll allow it.

Fran’s recruiting has been 10th and 12th, probably averages slightly better than that yearly I’d assume. Yet, Iowa finishes on average well above that in the standings. Iowa also ranked 11th in Dan’s OP graph as ranked by other coaches, but Fran’s average finish is also well above that. So basically what you’re telling me is that Fran is doing more with less.

Fran averages a .488 B1G winning percentage and an average conference finish between 6-7 in conference. You asked if that is supposed to bring in season ticket holders and sell out CHA? That I can’t say, every fan is different. What I do know is Ferentz is .553 vs B1G competition with an average finish of 4.8 place in conference and fans flock to Kinnick every Saturday.

Where do I pick up one of those “took Tennessee to the brink” t-shirts? Maybe I could retire my “My Man Fran” T.

I just want to see Fran put a team on the court that plays the style of basketball he has been talking about since he arrived. I think Fran is a better than average X and O coach and does some nice stuff offensively, but year after year he lacks the 1-2 guys needed to get the team over the hump and / or he thinks guys are capable of more and they don't deliver. To play fast you need to defend, have a shot blocker and some better than serviceable guard play. Texas Tech, Butler, Loyola-Chicago have proven it's not rocket science. Can Fran not build "one of those teams" and at least get to the Sweet 16?

 

[BBHawk]

What is the expiration date on Alford and Lickliter excuses? ...

When the stench wears off.

 

[iahawks10]

I just want to see Fran put a team on the court that plays the style of basketball he has been talking about since he arrived. I think Fran is a better than average X and O coach and does some nice stuff offensively, but year after year he lacks the 1-2 guys needed to get the team over the hump and / or he thinks guys are capable of more and they don't deliver. To play fast you need to defend, have a shot blocker and some better than serviceable guard play. Texas Tech, Butler, Loyola-Chicago have proven it's not rocket science. Can Fran not build "one of those teams" and at least get to the Sweet 16?

I agree with this. I think the problem was missing out on a couple pg recruits along the way. Maybe not as simple as that, but if Iowa hit on a just one of the PGs missed, we’re probably not discussing a sweet 16 miss.

I think we’re in a very similar situation we were with Dr Tom. I learned my lesson with that approach. If people see it differently, that’s cool too. Iowa certainly can do better than Fran, but Iowa basketball is exciting enough for me to continue with the hope that Fran can bring Iowa up another level.

 

[BBHawk]

When has Iowa had a coach that would mert your expectations and not bolt after having success like Lute and Ralph Miller did?

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Here's the context. Iowa hasn't made the NCAAs 4 out of any six seasons since the mid 90s. It is impossible to say with any certainty that there is some guy out there that is both willing to come to Iowa and able win more than the McC staff is currently winning. That gamble is how we lost our winningest coach coming off a Sweet 16 season with a huge recruit on the way.

We traded "up" for Alford coming off a Sweet 16 and even further "up" with the reigning NCoY Lickliter.

So, coming off a season that is among the four or five best of the last 25 years, we want to scare recruits by engaging in another purge? Do we want to risk trading up to another Alford or Lickliter or do we give recognize the very real difficulties involved in coaching Iowa and a guy that is, in fact, winning. A 23 win NCAA second round, second short of a Sweet 16 is a good season. Not great but was any season since the Sweet 16 season of 99 ended on a better finish?

 

[Legend12]

Here's the context. Iowa hasn't made the NCAAs 4 out of any six seasons since the mid 90s.

lol

 

[mtdew_fever]

Those midmajor guards are available every year....as grad transfers. It's not that tough.

I have been pretty pro-McCaffery in the past, but as I get older, and more desperate for some real success (Big Ten titles and further advancement in the NCAA's) I have become more neutral. What really bothers me is seeing guards on mid-major teams that would be difference makers for Iowa and were never on Iowa's radar. Many of those kids might have jumped at the chance to play in the B1G.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Here's the context. Iowa hasn't made the NCAAs 4 out of any six seasons since the mid 90s. It is impossible to say with any certainty that there is some guy out there that is both willing to come to Iowa and able win more than the McC staff is currently winning. That gamble is how we lost our winningest coach coming off a Sweet 16 season with a huge recruit on the way.

We traded "up" for Alford coming off a Sweet 16 and even further "up" with the reigning NCoY Lickliter.

So, coming off a season that is among the four or five best of the last 25 years, we want to scare recruits by engaging in another purge? Do we want to risk trading up to another Alford or Lickliter or do we give recognize the very real difficulties involved in coaching Iowa and a guy that is, in fact, winning. A 23 win NCAA second round, second short of a Sweet 16 is a good season. Not great but was any season since the Sweet 16 season of 99 ended on a better finish?

I agree to an extent but what great end to the season are you referring to? Fran did his usual choke job late in the season with a head scratching loss to a depleted NE team and 0 fire in the BTT. The TN game is a coin toss. You either think it was a great comeback or TN got bored and let Iowa back in the game and again Iowa could not finish despite having multiple opportunities. Fran has to do something other than be better than Lickliter and Alford. No Alford fan by any stretch, but he at least recognized the need to bring some juco guys in. Fran has had more than enough time to figure things out.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I agree to an extent but what great end to the season are you referring to? Fran did his usual choke job late in the season with a head scratching loss to a depleted NE team and 0 fire in the BTT. The TN game is a coin toss. You either think it was a great comeback or TN got bored and let Iowa back in the game and again Iowa could not finish despite having multiple opportunities. Fran has to do something other than be better than Lickliter and Alford. No Alford fan by any stretch, but he at least recognized the need to bring some juco guys in. Fran has had more than enough time to figure things out.

It really comes down to the proverbial glass. Half empty or half full?

Hadn't gone to the NCAAs in two years....we went.
Hadn't won an BTT game in 4 years....we won a BTT game.
Hadn't had a close second round game in 20 years, we had a very close loss.

McC hasn't just been better than Alford/Lick, admittedly a low bar, but much much better.

Iowa basketball is solid proof that change, particularly for merely the purpose of change, is rarely change for the better. If Iowa was winning 15-20 games, squeaking into the NIT, etc... I'd be all for change but there's much to lose with a bad move. You don't toss your third king hoping to hit a full house if you're well up on the pack or very desperate. Hawks aren't that desperate.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

If not for the horrible season before last, it would be easier to give Fran a better evaluation. The way we played in most of losses last year was also troubling to me. Fran needs a highly successful season in the next couple of years (e.g., top 2/3 in the B1G, some wins in the BTT, and at least a sweet 16), or it will be hard to not seriously consider whether we should try to do better.

 

[iahawks10]

I agree to an extent but what great end to the season are you referring to? Fran did his usual choke job late in the season with a head scratching loss to a depleted NE team and 0 fire in the BTT. The TN game is a coin toss. You either think it was a great comeback or TN got bored and let Iowa back in the game and again Iowa could not finish despite having multiple opportunities. Fran has to do something other than be better than Lickliter and Alford. No Alford fan by any stretch, but he at least recognized the need to bring some juco guys in. Fran has had more than enough time to figure things out.

O’fer in the BTT?

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

If not for the horrible season before last, it would be easier to give Fran a better evaluation. The way we played in most of losses last year was also troubling to me. Fran needs a highly successful season in the next couple of years (e.g., top 2/3 in the B1G, some wins in the BTT, and at least a sweet 16), or it will be hard to not seriously consider whether we should try to do better.

I think much fan discontent arises from the spectacularly unexpected awful 2018 season-left a big hangover. Until that time the McC trajectory was a pretty significant improvement for five consecutive seasons. The 2018 season was the first major reversal. As an aside, I think everyone expected a drop from 16-17 because we lost four seniors that had been multi year starters on successful teams (NIT finals & three consecutive NCAAs-a threepeat for Iowa that hasn't been seen since Acie Earl's senior year). No Iowa team in the last 45 years has overcome those graduation losses. Almost everyone expected the 1018 season to have been more like 2019 and the catastrophe that followed was hard to watch.

But the pessimists shouldn't ignore the dramatic bounce back in 2019. A 23 win season matches the second most win totals in the last 21 seasons, The two 25 win seasons include a somewhat fattened total with the NIT final and the other 25 win season died in a stunning loss to a 14 seed-leaving nothing but a bad taste after an otherwise very good season.

The last time Iowa won 23 games and made it past the NCAA first round was 2001-18 years ago. Iowa is entering entering a season as a young team with some fairly well regarded recruits on board. I agree that two years hence we should not be talking about potential.