They are/were not our enemies......Obama could have befriended them but he ignored them....allowed Putin establish a relationship. Now, thanks to Obama we have no friends in the region and Israel is vulnerable for destruction. Obama/Democrats......thanks for abandoning/betraying the US.
Iran deal reached
- Thread starter naturalmwa
- Start date
They are/were not our enemies......Obama could have befriended them but he ignored them....allowed Putin establish a relationship. Now, thanks to Obama we have no friends in the region and Israel is vulnerable for destruction. Obama/Democrats......thanks for abandoning/betraying the US.
I don't know what he claimed, but the agreement was always to freeze the program. That agreement worked until 2002. Republicans gets credit for a nuclear N. Korea.
In 1994, faced with North Korea’s announced intent to withdraw from the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), which requires non-nuclear weapon states to forswear the development and acquisition of nuclear weapons, the United States and North Korea signed the Agreed Framework. Under this agreement, Pyongyang committed to freezing its illicit plutonium weapons program in exchange for aid.
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron
Or this 'deal' is simply for show and what you said about a staged terror act goes off either way. Either way it's not our business to tell another country they can't arm themselves.
Look into this. What you will find is that the agreement was for NK to stop nuclear reactor construction (suspected to be cover for an arms program) in favor of the US building them 2 and supplying them with oil while they were built. The reactors were years behind schedule when we stopped the oil shipments in 2002. Only then did NK restart the nuclear arms program. The administration who let this fall apart has the responsibility IMO.
Here is the problem when you let Kerry make deals!
The question of technical monitoring is particularly important in light of last-minute Western concessions over access to Iranian military sites. The old standard of "anytime, anywhere" inspections has now been replaced with "managed access," meaning Iran will have a say in how, when and where international inspectors will gain access to its military facilities.
The question of technical monitoring is particularly important in light of last-minute Western concessions over access to Iranian military sites. The old standard of "anytime, anywhere" inspections has now been replaced with "managed access," meaning Iran will have a say in how, when and where international inspectors will gain access to its military facilities.
That is a good point. The idea of asking for inspections seems dubious to me too.
You seem to forget that it wan't Kerry making the deal, it was the United States, Great Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China making the deal.
The big thing here is it's an agreement with a government that is in no way, shape, or form held accountable by its citizens. So everyone on this side of the agreement had better be going in with eyes wide open and operating on the assumption that Iran will continue to do everything possible to covertly violate the tenets of the agreement in pursuit of nuclear weapons. To think otherwise would be astonishingly and dangerously naive.
So basically.......
1) Yay, we have a deal that MIGHT forestall Iran's attainment of nuclear weapons for as much as a decade.
but
2) Boo, we have a deal with a muslim government that has absolute and interminable authority and who we can be virtually 100% certain will actively and vigorously attempt to skirt the various inspection and other nuclear-curbing mandates and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, while simultaneously reaping the financial and social benefits from elimination of sanctions.
Let's not delude ourselves by willfully overlooking the fact that in Islam, which is the foundation of Iran's governance, lying is practically celebrated as a completely valid strategic means to a desirable end.....especially in any dealings with "infidels". http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Lying_and_Deception
Maybe any deal is better than no deal (or war). Or maybe not. Only time (and unless we are completely inept, some damn good ongoing intelligence work) will tell. Who knows, maybe Iran really does just want to be a peaceful member of the community of nations...one that happens to generate a significant portion of its electrical power through non-militarized nuclear capabilities. Of course, nuclear power plants aren't going to wipe Israel off the map.
So basically.......
1) Yay, we have a deal that MIGHT forestall Iran's attainment of nuclear weapons for as much as a decade.
but
2) Boo, we have a deal with a muslim government that has absolute and interminable authority and who we can be virtually 100% certain will actively and vigorously attempt to skirt the various inspection and other nuclear-curbing mandates and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, while simultaneously reaping the financial and social benefits from elimination of sanctions.
Let's not delude ourselves by willfully overlooking the fact that in Islam, which is the foundation of Iran's governance, lying is practically celebrated as a completely valid strategic means to a desirable end.....especially in any dealings with "infidels". http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Lying_and_Deception
Maybe any deal is better than no deal (or war). Or maybe not. Only time (and unless we are completely inept, some damn good ongoing intelligence work) will tell. Who knows, maybe Iran really does just want to be a peaceful member of the community of nations...one that happens to generate a significant portion of its electrical power through non-militarized nuclear capabilities. Of course, nuclear power plants aren't going to wipe Israel off the map.
I thought the stated goal was to prevent Iran from getting the bomb? This agreement delays it from getting the bomb from 2-3 month to one year? And, sanctions will be lifted during that time? Yea, sounds more like a legacy attempt by the POTUS.
Our politicians will spin this into a wonder of all wonders. In the end, Iran "WILL" get the bomb.
Well, dealing strategically over time helps reduce a whack-job country like Iran getting a nuke is good, right? And, again, no whack job country has ever used their nukes. To do so would mean regime suicide.
Loose nukes scare me.
This is exactly where our country has gone wrong. It's thinking like this on both sides.
You're referring to the breakout time. The agreement moves the time needed for them to actually build a bomb from 2 months to 12. It prevents them from trying to build the bomb for 15 years with 10 additional years of inspection to know if they have resumed trying.
So when did Iran fall under the United States of America though? Why are you thinking that WE or the UN, should be able to do inspections at all? Does Israel let us inspect all of their facilities?
So the extra 100 billion being allowed to flow back into their country will give them the means to have even more elaborate covers for the "nuclear cake baking" facilities. Look at the inspection piece again, there are certain things missing from it...
One of the biggest sticking points in the negotiation was access to facilities, scientists and documents related to military applications of nuclear research. Military or other undeclared sites can be inspected under the compromise. But such requests are subject to conditions and follow a complex request and approval process.
If concerns have not been resolved within two weeks of an IAEA request to visit a suspect site, the matter will be taken to the joint commission. This body has a week to attempt to find a solution or vote to require an inspection. Iran will then have three days to comply. In total the process can take 24 days.
Long time to move, shift location,etc. This type of arrangement is what allowed Saddam to dance around the inspectors... what did that lead to?
Yes, many do. We are world public enemy #1 for most of the entire world. They ALL want to take us down as a result.
And we were absolutely, 100%, no doubt about it rubberstamp justified in dropping Fat Man and Little Boy. The US saved millions of lives in dropping that sucker. Twice.
Iran is a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty; Israel is not. But, hey - that treaty has become toilet paper so your point is legitimate.
Lol, millions? That's more than a little hyperbolic.
We did legitimately kill several hundred thousand in a matter of seconds, though. So we have that going for us, which is nice.
It "prevents" them from trying to build a nuclear weapon the same way a restraining order "prevents" an abusive husband from killing his estranged wife. In other words, it doesn't. Unless of course you think we're actually going to be able to effectively inspect every inch of a nation the size of Alaska.
If there are let's say 10 locations that we know of where they were attempting to refine the various necessary materials to nuclear weapons grade....then that means there are likely at least 10 other locations we know nothing about and will either never locate, or will locate only after they have already achieved their goal. And of course when that happens, they'll officially be a member of "the club" and can tell the rest of the world to piss off.
The idealist in Ol' Doodle wants to think the Iranian government cares about its people and wants to play by the rules. But the realist in Doodle thinks.....yeah, not so much.
Couldn't agree more on minding our own business. I am a non-voting libertarian btw: it was just a breath of fresh air to see a POTUS and his minions take a step back from war for a change. I am well aware that the powers that be will have something totally different to say about how this plays out.
You are watching The American Network on Channel 911. All War, All the Time.
I agree, that part bothers me too, but under the present system they don't have to dance at all. With inspectors running around freezing their program I think this is worth the risk to prevent the alternative.
I'm sure there is a gay wedding cake joke to be made here, but I can't bring it together.
Kerry said 5 years if they are good boys. This was one of the concessions Obama got that the Europeans didn't want to give.
And there it is.
What would you have advised we do instead? Full scale ground invasion of Japan? Surrender?
I think you're underestimating how difficult this whole process is. Even if they want to do what you suggest, they will need thousands of new centrifuges and tones uranium to enrich as we will have our hands on their current stalk. Last time they tried that, we knew the location and that was without inspectors with isotope detectors on the ground. That probably takes them the 15 years the treaty bought us anyway.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/f7dab4ae-2491-11e5-bd83-71cb60e8f08c.html#axzz3ft6PMeZU
Good read on it for the most part.
Good read on it for the most part.
Couldn't agree more on minding our own business.
The USA and Iran are a signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Are you suggesting we just scrap the treaty and open the barn doors.
The fact is - it is our business.
Lastly, I knew Oil was part of this...
This is expected to take at least six to nine months, meaning the huge economic boost brought by sanctions relief would start in the first half of 2016. At that point more than $100bn in Iranian assets overseas would immediately be unfrozen and Iran’s oil exports would rapidly increase.
This is expected to take at least six to nine months, meaning the huge economic boost brought by sanctions relief would start in the first half of 2016. At that point more than $100bn in Iranian assets overseas would immediately be unfrozen and Iran’s oil exports would rapidly increase.
Indeed we are, if anything, either the powers that be realized that they couldn't afford more war, or they are simply using this as a future reason to go to war. Something 'big' will happen, and then they'll point towards the deal saying that "even when we worked with Iran, they still did this to us.", and then BOOM. Another big war in the Middle East.Couldn't agree more on minding our own business. I am a non-voting libertarian btw: it was just a breath of fresh air to see a POTUS and his minions take a step back from war for a change. I am well aware that the powers that be will have something totally different to say about how this plays out.
You are watching The American Network on Channel 911. All War, All the Time.
It wouldn't surprise me either way.
5 years huh? That won't do any damage to their economy or their people at all. I just can't seem to understand why they would have any angst against us at all. It just doesn't make any sense.
That's why, we, you know...at least tried to do something about it, and without killing a whole bunch of people in the process.
But instead of applauding, you've decided to whine like a little bitch. Figures.
It always is about oil. Iran had been making deals with China to sell and trade their oil using the Yuen, this is why we have pushed so hard on Iran lately, it has nothing to do with Nuclear capabilities. It has everything to do with keeping ahead of China. Besides,One gun can't beat an army of machines guns.
http://www.commodityonline.com/news...-china-threatens-us-dollar-47928-3-47929.html
Here is another link speaking about Irans deal with china in 2012. Iraq was doing almost exactly the same thing back in the day. You've seen how that turned out. I'll be shocked if we don't eventually go to war with Iran. Its looking all too similar.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-17988142
Why yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting.
Our founding fathers, though certainly flawed individuals, got it right when they urged us to steer clear of entangling alliances (aka known as minding our own effing business!).But maybe you're right. Trying to run the world has worked out for us so well in the past I guess we should just keep upping the ante. Perpetual war pays..............at least it does for the elitists.
Too bad it's not the business that our tyrants in charge are actually concerned about. Whether people like it or not, this does have a lot to do with oil, and how it is traded in the foreign markets. Iran was pushing to use the Yuan as it's main trade currency, and the US did NOT like that, as it directly under-minded the US dollar. They were afraid that other countries would follow suit, and are seeking these proposals for two reasons.
-Get Iran back in line with the US dollar
-Make sure Iran doesn't have the weapons to say no.
It's control, and power, and that's nothing new here.
Why yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting.
But maybe you're right. Trying to run the world has worked out for us so well in the past I guess we should just keep upping the ante. Perpetual war pays..............at least it does for the elitists.
It's a small world. Nuclear weapons are our business, as well as the business of every person on the planet. This is particularly true when the country in question, Iran, has threatened use them.
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