You have repeatedly gone on the record as hating women's basketball. Brad Banks was right there with Long btw. He'd have similar stats if he had come here outxof high school and Caitlin will win national player of the year this year, won her 3rd big player of the year and will definitely not lose in the first round this year. Also has led Iowa to a big championship and a tourny championship, will most likely set all time college scoring record and assists also. Has raised attendance of women's games by thousands at carver and every stadium she appears at. She has been 1st team all big 3 years in a row, all unanimous. Just made a game winning 3 against the #2 team in the country and you don't even know uconns player that's hurt who is good but not even close to cc. Should i continue to show how little you actually know and just took the chance to belittle cc and women's basketball again?
Is Clark the greatest Hawkeye of all time?
- Thread starter TylerJ84
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Outside of small colleges, there are very few wrestling programs outside of the Big 10 and Big 12. The SEC doesn't have any and the Pac 12 just a few. It's not really a national concern.
It's actually becoming less popular here in ne iowa getting dropped from some schools for lack of interest. Never thought I'd see that happen. Women's basketball though, has never been bigger here with more summer leagues than ever before despite the most boring of sports, soccer, being popular. And eff soccer.
Things like Sports Center would suggest this is true, yet, the Iowa-PSU dual drew 388,000 viewers on BTN, whereas Iowa at IU WBB drew a record BTN WBB audience of 325,000.
Im truly sorry for all of our well deserving “best of the best,” but, you’ve just been asassina
Sorry! Wrong click. anyway.
You’ve just been assassinated. That’s right, playing in perhaps her biggest game yet, Caitlan left no doubt, who is the greatest college, yes men or women, basketball player in the country. Cold Blooded doesn’t seem to fit such people.
Dare I say but could Caitlan Clark and Michael Jordan names might be included in the same sentance?
You’ve just been assassinated. That’s right, playing in perhaps her biggest game yet, Caitlan left no doubt, who is the greatest college, yes men or women, basketball player in the country. Cold Blooded doesn’t seem to fit such people.
Dare I say but could Caitlan Clark and Michael Jordan names might be included in the same sentance?
Don't tell Liv4God that. He'll act like you just spit on his wife and kicked his dog. Soccer is surpassing everything with kids so that appears to be the future.
I'm not a soccer fan but Brandi Chastain has my heart forever! Local school had 1 wrestler so it's pretty obvious. My relatives in Utah and Texas don't even consider it a sport any more than pickle ball.
What do you consider to be a small college - a school like Missouri, much of the ACC and PAC 12, the Ivy League, the MAC? Outside of the top handful of schools, women’s basketball is horrible and often only exists because of Title IX. Don’t confuse the CC phenomenon with the reality of the sport.
But women's college basketball is on ESPN every week and has a huge TV contract worth millions. The viewership of women's basketball is absurdly higher than wrestling.
As was aforementioned in this thread, most colleges don't even have a wrestling program.
I personally love wrestling but it is simply not popular with the masses.
I’m sure you are right on a national basis, but it is still surprising to me that wrestling’s peak viewership on BTN exceeds WBB peak viewership on BTN. I would not have expected that.
She didn't lead Iowa to a 1st round loss. That's the men's team that lost in the first round. She did lead Iowa to the Sweet Sixteen as a freshman by outscoring the whole Kentucky team by herself in the first half.
I don't know where you got that. I think she is very athletic. I haven't said a negative about that amazing young lady.
Ha, you know when wrestling fan invades the basketball board he comes with a chip on his shoulder. Not really sure what point you thought you were trying to make here but this is why it's silly to compare and individual sport like wrestling and team sports.
Again, Garza doesn't get to only play against centers the way SL gets to hideout at 125 and be judged only by how he does there....he has to compete directly against all the players of all sizes and skill levels and despite that he was still named NPOY out of 358 schools, not just 78 like wrestling. Same with Caitlin. Just given nationwide participation rates and wrestling being divided into 10 weight classes you have to beat out WAY more athletes to achieve greatness in bball or football. This just isn't even remotely controversial until wrestling fan decides it's time to step up for their sport.
I have watched Spencer his whole career, make it a point to see his matches when they are on TV, and will miss him when he's gone. It really is no disrespect to him. Just an apples and oranges comparison
This is out of left field but maybe helps. When the talking heads say the greatest athlete of all time is Jordan. I would say Ashton Eaton. Very few people know who that is.
Dude, if you are trying to say that wrestling is more popular than women's basketball you are absolutely delusional. Even women''s basketball has a pro league that has games on TV, unlike wrestling. If you are going to defend wrestling I wouldn't bring up partially filled arenas, even the gold standard of college wrestling now has most of their meets at a 7000 seat old facility called rec hall.
I actually prefer wrestling to WBB but Sportcenter has something on women's college bball or WNBA about every broadcast and almost never anything on wrestling. When Iowa won the natty in 01 they barely got a mention and definitely didn't show any highlights. Your average american just doesn't give a shit. Compare that to women's march madness coming up if you can but they aren't really comparable
Dude - you’re entranced by the draw of CC. She is the reason. Why do you think the other coaches are so pissy about the attention she gets? Outside of a handful of the top college teams, they are lucky to put several thousand butts in the seats. Just look at the attendance at Iowa pre CC. You bring up the WNBA? You mean a league that if not subsidized by the NBA it wouldn’t exist? And last time I checked, Chicago has the champion and they can’t give tickets away. I know, I live here. Senior level wrestling is held world wide. And no, not the WWE.
Why do you think ESPN has WNBA highlights? Because people tune in just for that? Please - understand how things work.
I've never seen someone be so adamant about something they're so wrong about. There's a reason why women's basketball has a big TV contract that broadcasts games nationally and wrestling does not. If wrestling was going to get more viewers to their televisions, it would have the contract.
Yes, SportsCenter shows women's basketball highlights because people do care. Again, they're about ratings so they're going to show the things that draw the most viewers.
Basketball is the most popular sport in the world. Wrestling is a complete unknown to most people. If you said the word "wrestling" to random people on the street, 95% of them would think you were talking about WWE.
I could say the same as you. Quite frankly this whole thread was derailed when someone tried to equate popularity with greatness. Why do you think they (WNBA) have the tv contract and highlights are shown? Because of the ratings it gets? Please. It's because of the affiliation that exists between the NBA and WNBA. At some point just recognize it's CC that is the draw, not the game. Look at the numbers when she is not involved. Yes, basketball is extremely popular - the mens game. The WNBA would not even exist without the NBA and that is fact. Many of the college teams would not exist without TItle IX. Without looking them up, name the top 5 players in the WNBA. Heck, name five teams and their names. Without looking them up, name the top 5 players in the college game and who they play for. You may get the college question for one simple reason - you watch the games CC is in. The fact is probably 90% of the fans that have been drawn to watch the Iowa women (me included) could not. Want to bet a grand on if season tickets stay the same when CC leaves? If the game is so popular - that fact should not matter. It's her. Wrestling is not remotely close to the popularity of mens basketball. I would still say it has more true fans of the sport - minus the CC phenomenon.
We are talking about women's college basketball, not the WNBA. We are talking about the popularity of women's college basketball compared to men's college wrestling. The reason we're talking about popularity of respective sports is because being the "greatest Hawkeye of all time" is partially determined by your notoriety. It's the same reason why people have mentioned that there might have been a gymnast or a field hockey player that is absolutely the best that's ever been at their craft. Due to the obscurity of their sport, even Iowa fans don't know who they are.
I'm not suggesting Lee isn't known amongst almost every Hawkeye fan or that he is not indeed great. He's the best Iowa wrestler in history and Iowa has a rich tradition in wrestling. It's just that CC is far more well known. Many people would say Nile Kinnick is the best Hawkeye of all time...why is that? Because of his level of play? Well, partially...but most people have never seen him play, even on film. It's because he had notoriety with winning the Heisman trophy and with giving an acceptance speech that is quite famous in college football. Notoriety matters in this discussion and CC has it 10 fold over Lee.
Since, the Hodge trophy started in 1995, only 6 wrestlers have won 2+. Spencer being one of them (Cael is only 3 time winner.). There are only 4 4x NCAA champions.
Is Spencer wins this year, he would legitimately be top wrestler EVER for Iowa with only Sanderson having as good of credentials in history.
Caitlin winning NCAA player of year will put her in elite company, but not clearly above Megan. (6 players have one twice.) Let’s enjoy the next 1 1/4 to 2 1/4 years and the heights she can achieve.
Is Spencer wins this year, he would legitimately be top wrestler EVER for Iowa with only Sanderson having as good of credentials in history.
Caitlin winning NCAA player of year will put her in elite company, but not clearly above Megan. (6 players have one twice.) Let’s enjoy the next 1 1/4 to 2 1/4 years and the heights she can achieve.
Megan won 4 of the big 6 National POY awards (AP, USBWA, Honda, Naismith) but not the Wade Trophy or the Wooden. In WBB, the Wade and Naismith are probably the two most prestigious POY awards. No BIG WBB player has ever won both the Naismith and the Wade. If Caitlin were to sweep all 6 awards, especially winning both the Wade and Naismith, that would put her above Gustafson, IMO.
Remember, they played football at Iowa long before Hayden Fry and Chuck Long were on campus. There can be a good argument made that everything Long did at Iowa, Randy Duncan did, too. Plus, Duncan won a Rose Bowl....and was on the 1958 team that won the Look Magazine award as collegiate football’s best team in the nation. Duncan was the #1 draft pick of the Packers but played in the CFL because the CFL paid more money!
Someone asked about TV ratings for the game in one of these threads, I"ll share it here:
Shifting to women’s action, Sunday’s Indiana-Iowa game on ESPN — won by Iowa on a game winner by Caitlin Clark — averaged a 0.36 and 622,000, more-than-double a Wichita State-Memphis men’s game in the same window last year (0.14, 231K).
www.sportsmediawatch.com
Shifting to women’s action, Sunday’s Indiana-Iowa game on ESPN — won by Iowa on a game winner by Caitlin Clark — averaged a 0.36 and 622,000, more-than-double a Wichita State-Memphis men’s game in the same window last year (0.14, 231K).
Ratings: NASCAR, college hoops, soccer, NHL
NASCAR posted a slight dip for its final outing at Fontana. Plus: ESPN scored one of the top ten audiences of college basketball season.
www.sportsmediawatch.com
C'mon man. Don't cherry pick numbers to try to serve a narrative.Someone asked about TV ratings for the game in one of these threads, I"ll share it here:
Shifting to women’s action, Sunday’s Indiana-Iowa game on ESPN — won by Iowa on a game winner by Caitlin Clark — averaged a 0.36 and 622,000, more-than-double a Wichita State-Memphis men’s game in the same window last year (0.14, 231K).
Ratings: NASCAR, college hoops, soccer, NHL
NASCAR posted a slight dip for its final outing at Fontana. Plus: ESPN scored one of the top ten audiences of college basketball season.
The Iowa women's game was a matchup between two Top 5 teams with College Gameday as a backdrop. It had 620,000 viewers on ESPN. Meanwhile, the Duke v North Carolina men's game on ESPN (neither are Top 10 teams) had 4,000,000 viewers. A typical ESPN Top 10 basketball matchup in men's basketball gets over 2,500,000 viewers. The average men's game on Fox, including random games against unranked teams, gets 1,250,000.
600,000+ is great ratings for women's basketball, no doubt. But that level of interest would be astronomically bad ratings for a similar men's college basketball matchup.
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I’d differ with that description. I’d argue that we haven’t seen Spencer’s level of excellence in the modern wrestling era. Steveson was great but Spencer destroyed his opponents in a way that Steveson didn’t. Carl has his undefeated record (although he did lose to Hawk Paul Jenn his true freshman year — it only didn’t count because he redshirted), but again his dominance wasn’t on Spencer’s level.
Spencer is on schedule to win 3 Hodge Trophies and has won the Sullivan Award. That’s pretty good evidence that he absolutely blows away his competition. Caitlin has yet to win 1 POY award.
I’ve followed college wrestling closely since 1975 and have never seen a talent on Spencer’s level. I certainly wouldn’t say the gap between Caitlin and her completion is larger than the gap between Spencer’s and his.
And of course, the mainstream media issue is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
I think i was replying to someone else. I like your handle btw.
That crowd at the first round of the Big Ten tournament last night sure was impressive. Take away from the several teams in attendance, there may have been 200 people there! Now pay attention to the first round of the Big Ten wrestling tournament. Stop thinking the fanfare for CC is for the entire college game. I brought up the WNBA because that was brought up to me as a reason the women's game "is so popular." I simply stated facts.
Listen, I tune in especially now to watch the Iowa women play. I make time for it because I enjoy their style of play. Much if not all is because of how CC pushes the ball. Will I after CC is gone, more than likely not. 90% of the bandwagon jumpers will do the same.
As far a Nile Kinnick - in my opinion greatness is "achieved" by being better than who your peers are at the time. He won the Heisman so that tells me he was at the top, It was also at a time when professional football was pretty irrelevant. So being at the top of the college game meant something. Comparing athletes from different eras is pretty subjective.
I'm out - enjoy the games.
Women's college basketball has higher attendance than Men's college wrestling and has higher TV ratings. Objectively...it's more popular. You can continue to put your head in the sand but your opinion doesn't change the facts.
Big Ten Network announces record wrestling viewership numbers: 'It's our third-highest rated sport'
The Big Ten Network had record-setting wrestling viewership numbers … again.
www.desmoinesregister.com
Opps - now it's not just me saying this. Take Iowa out of the equation for viewership and you will be surprised what you will see. You really think an Iowa fan who has tuned in because of CC watches UCONN vs. Notre Dame? Please. Get back to me in 2025 when things get back to normal.
Lol The Big Ten network. Literally one of multiple networks that broadcast sports. ESPN, SEC Network, Fox, amongst others all broadcast women's basketball.Big Ten Network announces record wrestling viewership numbers: 'It's our third-highest rated sport'
The Big Ten Network had record-setting wrestling viewership numbers … again.www.desmoinesregister.com
Opps - now it's not just me saying this. Take Iowa out of the equation for viewership and you will be surprised what you will see. You really think an Iowa fan who has tuned in because of CC watches UCONN vs. Notre Dame? Please. Get back to me in 2025 when things get back to normal.
The total viewership nationwide isn't even close. Oops, does that not fit your narrative? No one was suggesting women's basketball was more viewed on the Big Ten Network.
Just admit you're wrong or just stop replying with ignorance as you suggested you would after your last dumb post.
See you in 2025. Your narrative suggests that the women's game is more popular than CC. That is my point. It's just not. Remove Iowa from the ratings, regardless of the network, and you have nothing but filler. Remove her and it all goes away. She is the reason and quite frankly may be one of the most valuable assets college sports has right now. Regardless of the sport, men's or women's.
I have never said that wrestling is a ratings powerhouse, but simply has more knowledgeable and passionate fans than women's college basketball. You don't have the bandwagon jumpers that CC has brought in and who will surely go away once she is gone. You are kidding yourself if you believe the casual bball fan tunes in for even a marquee matchup like South Carolina vs Notre Dame. Those games are on for a reason and it's not because they make boatloads of money for the network. It's called a negotiated contract that gets certain deals done to get the big fish like SEC football or ACC basketball. LOL all you want - it's how deals get done.
The question was which sport is more popular. The answer is Women's college basketball with or without Caitlin Clark and it isn't even close.
But but but, we know more about our sport than the people watching womens' basketball! Relevance? Zero!
But keep trying to move the goalposts to support your narrative. Women's college basketball is more popular than men's college wrestling. That was the assertion and that is a fact.
OK Mr Delusional, hate to ruin your fake perception that people outside a few programs give a shit about college wrestling but here you go. This is from 2020, couldn't find current info but the 3rd most attended wrestling program was ISU and they averaged under 5k a meet and it goes down from there obviously.
Iowa leads NCAA in wrestling attendance, Cyclones rank third
Iowa led the nation in NCAA wrestling attendance for the 14th straight year and the state’s two other Division I programs ranked among the top 13 nationally.
Not quite sure which year this was but the Iowa State women were 3rd that year and averaged over double what the 2020 3rd most attended wrestling program did at 9.87k. You have to drop down to the the 16th women's program to get under 5k. Keep in mind basketball has more than double the games/meets as wrestling. It's not even close, but keep spewing BS
Attendance at Women's Basketball Games: The Top 20 in Division I
These ladies draw a crowd due to their dominance on the court. Search Thousands Of Colleges And Scholarships. Join Our Growing Community Of College Bound Students.
www.collegexpress.com
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Wrestling nuts. They have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to other sports that are more popular. I really like wrestling as it was one of the first sports I participated in as a kid but I've never seen a sport where the fans constantly rip fans of other sports and those who are more casual fans... it's almost like a cult.
It's too bad for a sport that could really stand to attract a lot more eyeballs
