I don't know who the hell Jim Rohn is, but I LOVE that statement!
ISU Grades
- Thread starter UndercoverHawk
- Start date
I might add - I've got a olympic gold medal in failure and flopping. No details - take my word for it. I've also been a champion in life. However, I've never been confused about who was responsible for my ups and downs. So I'm no happy talk empty headed motivational speaker.
I'm not sure that I was referring to your post. Maybe there were instances when these guys could have gone after something and didn't. My experience with athletics is that most likely these guys are trying to dominate and just can't. Sometimes it is a mentality, and the coach needs to somehow get the guy to release his inhibitions. Its not always so easy. I would bet that we are trying to dominate and just can't because we are not that much better than our opponents. Take Brooks for example--he is dominant against non-top 10 guys and shows it--although he does seem to have sloppy mistakes which haven't improved. He doesn't necessarily dominate top 10 guys because he is not good enough. He wants to dominate them, but just can't. I would say our other guys would dominate if they could--the ones who could dominated the Iowa duals, but they just can't dominate mid-level opponents because they are slightly better than mid-level. Dominant Iowa wrestlers in the past have been dominant because they were better. Back in the Gable days, he really increased the training level, and some guys were not necessarily more gifted, but were trained better. That training gap no longer exists, at least not at Iowa. We just need better wrestlers.
“We’re not just trying to beat Iowa State,” Iowa head coach Tom Brands said. “We’re trying to close the gap on the best teams in the country. Because we’re not the best team in the country. We’ve got a lot of work to do if that’s the case.
“That was a very close dual, even though the score was lopsided. There are some tough situations we need to wrestle through, and that is a concern. Big time.”
http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...13th-straight-cy-hawk-dual-26-9-win/95279900/
Over the past 6 years we've gone from a dominant #1 program to a top-5 program, and the performance against Iowa State exemplifies that decline. No one outside of Gilman makes it to Saturday night wrestling like that. That's a huge problem. We need studs, and we need them to step up and wrestle like studs. For all of Brands' talk about "living the lifestyle," blah, blah, blah, for God's sake put some frigging studs on the mat who know how to rip out the heart of an opponent and eat it.
I'm down with more heart eaters. Hopefully having Lee, Teasdale, Murin, Kemerer, Marinelli, Young, Warner, and Stoll all wrestling in the same lineup leads to a bonus point mentality throughout the whole lineup.
Agree 100%. We just don't have enough studs. Those double recruiting classes Brands got when he came from VT gave us enough studs.
This thread isn't about recruiting. It's about the performance of the current lineup last night. A very lackluster performance. A lack of effort. A LACK OF HUSTLE! And I'm not talking about running back to the middle. I'm talking about chain wrestling. I'm talking about fighting. I'm talking about a relentless pursuit of points and falls.
You are probably correct. Don't come to Iowa Wrestling and pretend you can win. Execute!!
Get them on their backs! Shots and takedowns are what score points. I guess we'll see what happens on the road vs. Michigan, Michigan State and Okie State.
Time will tell.
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Jim Rome is a great philospher and intellectual:
.... oh wait... you said Jim Rohn....nevermind
Rome is a hack - just like Cowherd wants to be. Get a radio and a mic - you can suck about knowledge of sports too - and make millions.------
Jim Rome is a great philospher and intellectual:
.... oh wait... you said Jim Rohn....nevermind
I get what you are saying, even a guy as good as Sorensen is not stomping opponents. What you are referring to is not just last night. That's Iowa now. But, Gilman does it. We just don't have the Gilman's. If you followed Gilman's recruiting, he probably shouldn't have come here. But you get Zain and Nolf here, they do what Gilman does. I'll be honest, I do believe Cael develops big guys better, but Brands are no chumps for developing bigguys either. Get the top 5 guys here. Hire a wrestling recruiting coordinator. What's it going to hurt?
Rome is a piece of crap, he has made it very clear that he dislikes wrestling and if he talks about wrestling on his show (which is rare) it's always negative.------
Jim Rome is a great philospher and intellectual:
.... oh wait... you said Jim Rohn....nevermind
I sure think so. It looks highly unlikely it will get done this year. I caught crap for saying this earlier, but the fact is it's likely that either Stoll or Clark, if not both, will be at less than 100%. KemDawg is great but it's his Frosh season and he's wrestling up a weight class. That's half our "studs" in precarious positions, while we would need every stud to perform to their potential to have a shot at Nationals. Realistically, it's not going to happen.
Next year was already seen as a rebuilding year. That leaves us two years from now before we have a roster with the potential of winning it. Again, this isn't being a pessimist, this is simply taking a sober assessment of the situation.
I still believe that we can realistically win it this year.
Everyone has to take Gilman's lead and work toward that gradual peak in March.
Way to sloppy and passive right not, but there's still time to clean that up.
We also have two x factors at 41 and 65 that could still see their way into the lineup by March (Turk, Marinelli) I like these guy's upside.
This is a very "end of the world" type thread. Anytime we're talking about the results of a single dual meet and it turns in to a recruiting thread, it's bad news.
I will hold out hope that we will get significantly better as the year goes on, but while I think Iowa has a very good team, I don't think they are, right now, able to hang in the top 2. We have potential to win a lot of matches come NCAA's, but as has been the standard for the past few years, our fire power and bonus point potential, lies within a few really good wrestlers that seem either uninterested or incapable of domination, I'm looking at you 49 and 74.
25, 33, 49 and 84 (okay 84 is loaded, but SB is returning b10 champ and he's a stud) can all end up in the finals and I think 74 and 285 can get close. 41 might make the field and who know's what we have at 97 when Stoll get's back, and our 57...I am hoping that Kem watches the film of his ISU performance and notices that, while he won, he was being taunted and embarrassed at the end of the match. This should push him to finish clowns like this off early.
We're not there yet, but we can get there, and if we start to show some domination, get our injured guys back to 100%, then we might see the shirt come off at 65 and then......who knows.
At worst I will be disappointed, which has been the case for a lot of years now and it hasn't killed me yet. I love Iowa Wrestling, and will always look forward to the next competition and assume we are going to beat the shit out of whomever is across the mat from us! GO HAWKS!
I will hold out hope that we will get significantly better as the year goes on, but while I think Iowa has a very good team, I don't think they are, right now, able to hang in the top 2. We have potential to win a lot of matches come NCAA's, but as has been the standard for the past few years, our fire power and bonus point potential, lies within a few really good wrestlers that seem either uninterested or incapable of domination, I'm looking at you 49 and 74.
25, 33, 49 and 84 (okay 84 is loaded, but SB is returning b10 champ and he's a stud) can all end up in the finals and I think 74 and 285 can get close. 41 might make the field and who know's what we have at 97 when Stoll get's back, and our 57...I am hoping that Kem watches the film of his ISU performance and notices that, while he won, he was being taunted and embarrassed at the end of the match. This should push him to finish clowns like this off early.
We're not there yet, but we can get there, and if we start to show some domination, get our injured guys back to 100%, then we might see the shirt come off at 65 and then......who knows.
At worst I will be disappointed, which has been the case for a lot of years now and it hasn't killed me yet. I love Iowa Wrestling, and will always look forward to the next competition and assume we are going to beat the shit out of whomever is across the mat from us! GO HAWKS!
125 - A: think he's got 125 in the bag if he doesn't get injured.
133 - B: Thought he did well against a quality opponent.
141 - D: For us to have any chance of a top 3 finish at NCAAs he's going to have to pick it up.
149 - C: He should be destroying unranked opponents. I love Brandon, but would like to see him get more takedowns early, and finish unranked opponents early. Lack of significant bonus points always puts us behind PSU early at the B10s and NCAAs
157 - C: Tried some great moves, but the moves ended up getting him in trouble. Also, don't like seeing him winded so early.
165 - C: Lack of good action...would like to see him more aggressive.
174 - B: I was actually impressed that he won...and didn't ever look to be in serious trouble against a top 10 opponent. I still predict an early out at the NCAAs due to his inactivity.
184 - C: Didn't like seeing him take himself down in the first period, and didn't like that it took the entire 7 minutes to get the TF.
197 - D: You read my mind...Wilcke has turned into Meyer. What happened to the aggressive Wilcke we saw at the beginning of the season? If he can't score points at NCAAs we have zero chance of winning, and it will hurt our chance of making a top 3.
285- C: Tried two real shots and got reversed both times. Wish he would have did more to wear the big man down.
Perhaps for this dual meet we were looking down the road instead of looking at the road right in front of us, but if this is the best we have, understanding Stoll and Clark were injured but will be back in solid form, I see 3rd at B10s and 5th at the NCAAs. Any chance that both Clark and Stoll will be in action at the Midlands?
133 - B: Thought he did well against a quality opponent.
141 - D: For us to have any chance of a top 3 finish at NCAAs he's going to have to pick it up.
149 - C: He should be destroying unranked opponents. I love Brandon, but would like to see him get more takedowns early, and finish unranked opponents early. Lack of significant bonus points always puts us behind PSU early at the B10s and NCAAs
157 - C: Tried some great moves, but the moves ended up getting him in trouble. Also, don't like seeing him winded so early.
165 - C: Lack of good action...would like to see him more aggressive.
174 - B: I was actually impressed that he won...and didn't ever look to be in serious trouble against a top 10 opponent. I still predict an early out at the NCAAs due to his inactivity.
184 - C: Didn't like seeing him take himself down in the first period, and didn't like that it took the entire 7 minutes to get the TF.
197 - D: You read my mind...Wilcke has turned into Meyer. What happened to the aggressive Wilcke we saw at the beginning of the season? If he can't score points at NCAAs we have zero chance of winning, and it will hurt our chance of making a top 3.
285- C: Tried two real shots and got reversed both times. Wish he would have did more to wear the big man down.
Perhaps for this dual meet we were looking down the road instead of looking at the road right in front of us, but if this is the best we have, understanding Stoll and Clark were injured but will be back in solid form, I see 3rd at B10s and 5th at the NCAAs. Any chance that both Clark and Stoll will be in action at the Midlands?
I wish I had your optimism. Barring major injuries to OSU, tOSU and PSU studs (which I don't want to happen), I don't think we have a chance of winning it all. But I think we can finish in the top 3 if we quit dicking around and start acting like we want to win it all. We have to destroy the wrestlers we should destroy and then win 3-2 or 5-4 against the top tier wrestlers. If our guys wrestle with that "just get the win" attitude, we're screwed. Just like someone else said, they need to wrestle more like Gilman (destroy) and less like Meyer (just get the win) if this team is to have a chance...
With Clark out, Stoll out, our best option at 65 not wrestling, Freshmen in at 57,65,97,285, and not to mention the 97 and 285 are wrestling up and out of there natural weight. Oh don't forget our 57 pounder is a natural 49 and still trying to work himself into a full 57. The Dual went as expected. Would I like to see more points scored and more dominance, you bet. The Boys are working hard and I'm proud to be a Hawk. Keep Grinding! March is what matters!
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OK, while I was as disappointed as most were, I still like this team. Here's my thoughts.
125: A+++, KJ pulls the shirt and GMAN does what he does.
133: B-/C+, backup hung with a AA. Clark wins this match by 4 or 5.
141: B, controlled the ties and fought back and gutted a win out. I was actually somewhat happy with his match.
149: C-, BS is who he is. He got the bonus win in the end. He is still #2 just needs to open up a bit more.
157: D, not the Kemdawg I am used to seeing. He's better than that and you will see as the season progresses. He is still the 3rd best wrestler at 157.
165: C, Solid effort here. Needs to open up a bit more but I am liking his progress thus far.
174: B+, you might think I am crazy here but I REALLY liked what Meyer showed me here. Think of it this way he would have lost this match last year.
184: B-/C+, granted he did get the tech he looked a bit sloppy doing it. He also took himself down in the process. He needs to learn he can't just horse everybody around.
197: D, needs more to his offense than a duck.
Hwt: F, really sad that he could not do much with that bad of a Hwt. Stoll would have pinned him in about 30 seconds.
Overall: C, a little disappointed in some instances but we won and will continue to improve. I still love the these guys and our staff.
125: A+++, KJ pulls the shirt and GMAN does what he does.
133: B-/C+, backup hung with a AA. Clark wins this match by 4 or 5.
141: B, controlled the ties and fought back and gutted a win out. I was actually somewhat happy with his match.
149: C-, BS is who he is. He got the bonus win in the end. He is still #2 just needs to open up a bit more.
157: D, not the Kemdawg I am used to seeing. He's better than that and you will see as the season progresses. He is still the 3rd best wrestler at 157.
165: C, Solid effort here. Needs to open up a bit more but I am liking his progress thus far.
174: B+, you might think I am crazy here but I REALLY liked what Meyer showed me here. Think of it this way he would have lost this match last year.
184: B-/C+, granted he did get the tech he looked a bit sloppy doing it. He also took himself down in the process. He needs to learn he can't just horse everybody around.
197: D, needs more to his offense than a duck.
Hwt: F, really sad that he could not do much with that bad of a Hwt. Stoll would have pinned him in about 30 seconds.
Overall: C, a little disappointed in some instances but we won and will continue to improve. I still love the these guys and our staff.
We won't AA at 141, 165, and 197. Even a healthy Stoll is no sure AA. Even Meyer is no sure AA. Same with Kemmerer. So even if we go 1,1,2,3 with Gilman, Clark, Sorensen, Brooks, which is an absolute best case scenerio, then we'd have to have Stoll, Meyer, and Kemmerer do 3-6 with lots of bonuses to have a shot, and Stoll and Meyer are not bonus type guys, and neither is Sorensen. Basically, absolute best case scenario wins it for us assuming other teams underperform. That is unlikely. But some of you feel we have a shot every year.
Jeez, and a Merry Christmas to you too.
Not saying your thought process isn't right at all, but have a little bit of faith.
Some Hawks have to start wrestling like Hawkeyes not just be content to eek out wins wearing the black and gold.
It's unlikely we win a title this year, I'll give you that, but we are not out of it.
Agree. Post was made in attempt at humor... complete with his "motivational" poster. Rome is a tool. Gonzo journalism at its worst (Jim/Chris Everett incident). I've not seen him in the ~30 years since.
I'd say probably yes, for the reasons Artbradley and others have already said. At best, a dark horse this year, and only if Clark and Stoll come back this season at 100%.
Next year rebuilding.
After that, start of a new era. Keep snagging top ten recruits, making a more level field vs PSU, and I have confidence Tom and Terry can get us back on top
This team can ABSOLUTELY win it all in March. I am not saying they are the favorites, but their reasonable Tournament Scoring potential is very comparable to OkState, PSU and tOSU.
125:Gilman 24+ He has been a bonus pt. machine. If Dance and Suriano end up 2,3 seeds he bonuses to the Finals.
133:Clark 22+ He is still the best guy at the weight. The key is how well he recovers and if he can replicate his March performances the last 2 seasons. There isn't a Brewer or Garrett in this weight class so he wins it!
141:Carton 1.5 Depending on his draw I can see him winning one on the top and one in the consis.
149:Sorenson 17+ He is the clear 2nd best in this weight. He wins ugly, but he wins and wins and wins.
157:Kemerer 9+ He is a freshman wrestling up a weight. He has the heart to reach the podium, but bottom half is more likely.
165:???? Not worth even trying to guess now.
174:Meyer 9+ 6thish is about right for him.
184:Brooks 9-18 He has the biggest possible range and may very well be the deciding factor.
197:Wilcke 1.5 Very similar to 141
285:Stoll 7-12 He is the other really big IF. Can he get back to where he was before injury last year. It is VERY HARD for 285's to recover from injuries, let alone knees. Not only do you have to worry about health, but you lose all that time working in the room developing.
This team is very capable of scoring 100 pts without any surprises or Marinelli wrestling. If Brooks can navigate 84 and Stoll gets back to last year's level, this team is more than capable of winning it all, regardless of a somewhat lackluster performance against a team as well coached as the Cyclones!
125:Gilman 24+ He has been a bonus pt. machine. If Dance and Suriano end up 2,3 seeds he bonuses to the Finals.
133:Clark 22+ He is still the best guy at the weight. The key is how well he recovers and if he can replicate his March performances the last 2 seasons. There isn't a Brewer or Garrett in this weight class so he wins it!
141:Carton 1.5 Depending on his draw I can see him winning one on the top and one in the consis.
149:Sorenson 17+ He is the clear 2nd best in this weight. He wins ugly, but he wins and wins and wins.
157:Kemerer 9+ He is a freshman wrestling up a weight. He has the heart to reach the podium, but bottom half is more likely.
165:???? Not worth even trying to guess now.
174:Meyer 9+ 6thish is about right for him.
184:Brooks 9-18 He has the biggest possible range and may very well be the deciding factor.
197:Wilcke 1.5 Very similar to 141
285:Stoll 7-12 He is the other really big IF. Can he get back to where he was before injury last year. It is VERY HARD for 285's to recover from injuries, let alone knees. Not only do you have to worry about health, but you lose all that time working in the room developing.
This team is very capable of scoring 100 pts without any surprises or Marinelli wrestling. If Brooks can navigate 84 and Stoll gets back to last year's level, this team is more than capable of winning it all, regardless of a somewhat lackluster performance against a team as well coached as the Cyclones!
Lol @ the Jim/Chris Everett incident. I remember watching that and Rome looked soooo scared. Kudos to Jim for flipping the table over and going after Rome.
LOL The only exclaimation point above comes in regard to Clark winning the weight class, which the OP admits is weak. Unfortunately I'll believe he see the mat again this season only when it happens.
That gives u a baseline of around 75 points, imo!
That gives u a baseline of around 75 points, imo!
Jim Rome is more than a hack. He is a backstabbing moron who kisses his guest's asses while on the air and then verbally slams them the second they leave the interview. Why do you think Ferentz has turned down his numerous interview requests
With that said, someone likes him as he is one of the highest paid sportscasters out there($15 mil/year by some estimates).......I for one think he is a complete an utter tool who most likely never even played a real sport..
But I digress
There is no doubt that Iowa can't win it without Clark. But the same could be said about tOSU without Bo Jordan, or PSU without Nolf or OkState without Heil. When your best wrestler(arguably) is injured hardly any team could recover. There are only 9.9 scholarships. Very few teams have the depth to replace 20+ points at NCAA's.
I never like shortchanging a team due to key injuries, especially when the argument was more about effort than anything else. Iowa absolutely has the talent to win starting their 10 best against any other team's 10 best.
When people say Iowa guys wrestle too conservative, this may well be the reason why. Everytime they take a chance that doesn't pan out perfectly, it is mentioned. Where is the incentive to take chances. I have no idea if Brands says this sort of things to the kids, but the fans certainly do. The poster could have easily said, " I loved the way they took chances and still ended up winning. A daring attitude will take them a lot farther in the long run that wrestling tight. They both are learning and getting better."
Looks like a pretty accurate summary to me......especially based on Hawks performance at the past 5 national tourneys. This team has to have guy's like Sorensen, Meyer's, Stoll, Brooks, etc step up and score significant bonus points at Nationals if the team wants to finish in the top 3.
To me there is no reason this team cannot compete for a Team Title if a healthy Clark and Stoll are back in the line up. Most of it will be dependent on how many bonus pts the upper classmen score and how tough they wrestle back in the consolation rounds. (something that has really been lacking in the past few NCAA tourney's)
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