ISU Isn't Done Yet
- Thread starter WatWest00
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No way Taylor leaves until he is done competing. What is he going to leave training with Varner, Cael, Cunningham, Nickal etc? He is a Cael guy 100%. Ringer, maybe, but that is not a big splash.
Penn State would just match whatever ISU was able to offer. I would consider Ringer an outstanding get.
This support that Dresser has generated only brings into question the lack of enthusiasm and financial resources that were utilized, or rather not utilized, when KJ was at the reins.
Where were these boosters and AD supporters for the last 6-7 years? Sounds like the band wagoners are in beast mode. Did Jackson's ethnicity hold them back? Does ISU suddenly have a active fan base?
Or are the envious wrestling backers seeing a light at the end of the tunnel with the "Iowa" flavor to the coaching staff and the hope that ISU catches up in State?
This says more to me about the alumni that made up the previous staff and how poorly they were viewed.
Regardless, this momentum is expected. We'll see how long it lasts.
Where were these boosters and AD supporters for the last 6-7 years? Sounds like the band wagoners are in beast mode. Did Jackson's ethnicity hold them back? Does ISU suddenly have a active fan base?
Or are the envious wrestling backers seeing a light at the end of the tunnel with the "Iowa" flavor to the coaching staff and the hope that ISU catches up in State?
This says more to me about the alumni that made up the previous staff and how poorly they were viewed.
Regardless, this momentum is expected. We'll see how long it lasts.
I definitely have my doubts about them landing somebody like Taylor b/c of the PSU piggy bank, but they are going after the stars nonetheless. I guess we had to assume that things like this were coming when they announced Metcalf as an RTC coach and gave him a sizable salary.
I think more importantly, this may be an indication of good things to come from some of our top International prospects coming out of college -- knowing that they can make a very comfortable living while training full-time. Maybe we wouldn't see guys like Ruth going MMA if they know the guaranteed payday was there versus the risk/reward factor in MMA.
Maybe I am too much of an optimist, but this type of business model could be a great thing for wrestling as a whole if it sparks competition among college institutions and its donors to fight for the best guys out there. In the current state (which is great and a big improvement), there is a big carrot dangling out there for winning World and Olympic titles in terms of paydays, but it's still not a guaranteed salary. No doubt we'd see our studs stick with the sport longer.
I think more importantly, this may be an indication of good things to come from some of our top International prospects coming out of college -- knowing that they can make a very comfortable living while training full-time. Maybe we wouldn't see guys like Ruth going MMA if they know the guaranteed payday was there versus the risk/reward factor in MMA.
Maybe I am too much of an optimist, but this type of business model could be a great thing for wrestling as a whole if it sparks competition among college institutions and its donors to fight for the best guys out there. In the current state (which is great and a big improvement), there is a big carrot dangling out there for winning World and Olympic titles in terms of paydays, but it's still not a guaranteed salary. No doubt we'd see our studs stick with the sport longer.
Personally I saw it as a Catch 22 with KJ's last 2 recruiting classes. Feared it bought him more time. O\bviously some had finally had enough.
The "BUZZ" that Dresser has made coming to Iowa State reminds me of when a new Steak House comes to town. It's something new and exciting to try, everyone goes and packs the place for a few weeks and then before you know it, it's just another restaurant in town.... All of this talk about fund raising, recruiting and "catching" Iowa will be a moot point if he does not go out and do it....
Of course he will bring people in but that all costs money as does the giant check they are giving Metcalf outside the University. PSU is pretty much backed for what they need. Raising a chunk of money is nice but it gets used and without being endowed big time it is a constant process. People that gave a big chunk of money this time might not be able to always do that.
I definitely don't see this as a thing that benefits college wrestling or more than a very select few training graduates. Although it definitely will help ISU and puts my foot in my mouth because I never expected ISU to be able to go this far.
If this does create an arms race, not even sure it will, there will be very few participants. The money ISU is throwing around is unprecedented. PSU is the only thing comparable and they have a proven staff and RTC.
In fact, I could see this hurt many programs more than help them. If programs see it takes this kind of money to compete they could be more likely to shut funding down vs ramping it up.
Don't forget DI wrestling is still a non-revenue fringe sport. Maybe 5 programs in total could convince their Arhletic Department and donors that this kind of money is worth it.
I guess we will see how this all plays out in 5 years or so, but this is the kind of move(although on a much smaller scale) that contributed to salary caps being implemented in professional sports.
If this does create an arms race, not even sure it will, there will be very few participants. The money ISU is throwing around is unprecedented. PSU is the only thing comparable and they have a proven staff and RTC.
In fact, I could see this hurt many programs more than help them. If programs see it takes this kind of money to compete they could be more likely to shut funding down vs ramping it up.
Don't forget DI wrestling is still a non-revenue fringe sport. Maybe 5 programs in total could convince their Arhletic Department and donors that this kind of money is worth it.
I guess we will see how this all plays out in 5 years or so, but this is the kind of move(although on a much smaller scale) that contributed to salary caps being implemented in professional sports.
As a fully funded power 5 school with a strong wrestling history anything less than top 10 is complete failure.
Maybe since Royce had him as part of Titan and had to spend an extra 5 days overseas with Ringer since Ringer lost his passport, he can point him to Iowa City
I would love to see Ringer in IC. I think he would be so good for Marinelli, Young, and Kem to work out with and he would flourish under Terry.
Count me in the group that is surprised that for these salaries the best they could get is these 3. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are fine coaches but for that kind of money they should have been able to lure upper echelon type assistants.
As much as we have disagreed in the past Spooner, I have to say I agree with you now 100%. I didn't want to be attacked by others for posting something similar but I was thinking about this same thing last night... Dresser is a proven Coach but Great Wrestlers do not automatically equal Great Coaches. (Take Kevin Jackson as an example) St. John and Metcalf are completely unproven as D1 level coaching assistants. Zaddick is okay but something caused Tom Brands to part ways with him.... This may become a great staff down the road but right now it is a very "Green" and unproven group...
I don't know that St. John is unproven. Dresser said something that was pretty telling. In the 2 years that St. John coached at VTech he was able to get 2 super long shots onto the AA podium. Both(Mastriani and McFadden) spent considerable 1on1 time with St. John. To me, that is very telling.
As far as Metcalf being a great coach is concerned, parts of that definitely remain to be seen, but he will most definitely be a recruiting force moving forward. What Zadick said about how he was in the room and how important he was to the team aspect when Iowa had their 3 year run makes it hard to believe he won't be a great motivator as a coach.
As far as Metcalf being a great coach is concerned, parts of that definitely remain to be seen, but he will most definitely be a recruiting force moving forward. What Zadick said about how he was in the room and how important he was to the team aspect when Iowa had their 3 year run makes it hard to believe he won't be a great motivator as a coach.
Two AA's at NDSU too. EDIT: Correction, Monk was AA (3rd) the year was there. Zilmer was AA year after he left.
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Not intentionally trying to be a dick, but top 5-6 is the goal. The 7-10 usually have 3-4 mid AAS or 2-3 high AAs. It gets pretty mediocre beyond top ten.
I unfortunately disagee somewhat with some of you on whether a great wrestler makes a great coach. Of course it is not automatic. However, wrestling is unique compared to other sports on that issue. For starters, all wrestling coaches in D-1 wrestled and at a high level. And 3 of the best coaches were national champs and gold medalists. Don't recall Nick Saban being a Heisman trophy winner or Roy Williams being a basketball phenom. And sure experience helps but by definition most assistant wrestling coaches are young since many still roll with the team. And on recruiting, these kids remember seeing a Metcalf or a Taylor or a Dake. I would take our staff but I believe it is naive to think that because DSJ and especially Brent don't have as much experience they won't be awesome coaches or recruiters.
I can't stress enough that I think highly of the ISU staff and I'm glad to see ISU step up to the plate to support wrestling. It's just pretty interesting that THAT particular staff has required such a high salary. I guess that's the definition of game changer.
Agree with KujawaFan- not automatic, but probably not a coincidence that 3 of the most successful coaches in the sport the past 35-40 yrs (Gable, Smith and Sanderson) were THE names in the sport in the US while they competed. Certainly other factors, perhaps most importantly the level of commitment the school and/or donors to the program, but it plays a role. IMO, that is part of what makes Burroughs such an intriguing possibility if he decides to go all-in on coaching someday
I agree. Also Tom Brands was a multiple time champ and Olympic Champ. Quite frankly, wrestling seems like the only sport where the better you were as a competitor the chances increase towards being a good coach. I realize you can argue Kevin Jackson and some others but unlike other sports in playing the odds of a good coach give me an elite wrestler to start with prior experience or not. I don't recall Belichick being an all pro or Popovich being an all star or Madden being a former batting champ and the list goes on in other sports. But the best coaches in wrestling for my money were all elite national champs and for Gable, Brands, Smith and Sanderson all gold medalists.
I've been saying this for several years and guys on here, more than likely guys that have never been on a wrestling mat, always disagree. They seem to think this is football. In wrestling, world class wrestlers are the ones you want your guys to roll with. They can teach what it takes technique wise to get you to the top and what it takes on the mental side.
Can someone please provide black and white salary numbers for ISU's new staff? All of this "assuming" is a waste of time.
Did not mean to leave Tom and Terry off my list of examples- they belong as examples of great former wrestlers AND great coaches
To be honest, I think Dresser wanted guys who would be motivated to beat Brands. He knows and trusts Zadick, Metcalf is huge, and must see something in DSJ that is worth fostering.
No worries Panther. I mainly said it (besides being an Iowa fan) because 3 of the current best coaches year in and out include Brands, Sanderson and Smith. What in common? Multiple NCAA champs for each and a gold medal for each. I love our staff but surely wouldn't mind a Taylor or Dake. I always wanted Brent but the more I think about it an east coast multiple time champ that for the next bunch of years will be whom the recruits watched wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Before I get buried, yes I know they are still competing and yes I know need an opening and money. I guess more of a wish as of today and maybe come to fruition later.
Some here apparently are not aware of what you can earn on savings for the last 8-10 years or so. Bank Savings account rates a couple years back brought about $4.50-$4.75 a YEAR interest on $10,000. So multiply that by 100 times to get your Million and you can expect some where in the range of..........shall we say.......... maybe $450-$500 a YEAR in interest.
50K was 20 years ago. Not now.
Anyone think that ISU is paying these salaries in part as a poison pill toward Iowa poaching them down the line? It doesn't make sense to me otherwise.
Quite frankly, wrestling is in such a different spot than other sports when it comes to opportunities and money and also the length of time to coach unless you are the head guy. Most assistants are fairly younger and have young families. And there are only a certain amount of head coaching jobs and as important only a small percentage that pay well. Like I said, I love our staff but with ISU and others stepping up i really would like to make a run at young, world class wrestlers for somewhere on the staff who recruits have watched and honestly idolized. In my mind that is Taylor and Dake. Once again, before I get buried, I know they are training and money is an issue. But for those that complain about experience coaching, get the recruits in the door and let Tom and Terry develop them. Removing Hawkeye glasses, if I were a top notch recruit I am sorry but I would probably be most excited to see Taylor or Dake or Metcalf walk into parent's house than about anyone.
For the kid maybe, but the parents want the big dog telling them how he is going to help their kid reach national and olympic goals. A Brands, a Smith, a Sanderson will be parent, guardian, coach, and pastor for 5 years. That's still way more important than a Dake, Taylor, or Metcalf.
Penn St - I totally agree. My point was with younger guys on staff to get big dogs in the door to close but the kids and their parents knowing you get to roll with the guys the kids grew up watching. That was my point. I guess that was my point. Sorry.
What else are we supposed to do this time of year? Isn't this exactly what message boards are for?
