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JFC. GOP already talking about impeaching Hillary

A strong supporter of a party, cause, or person. Synonyms: supporter, follower, adherent, devotee, champion.


Keep pulling that D lever, Red. Really takes some extreme courage to vote, your whole life, for whoever the DNC tells you to vote for.

I am a big supporter of Sanders. I would much prefer Klein but she doesn't have a prayer. And if HC is the Dem nominee, I'm sure as hell voting for her over someone like Bush or Rubio. The folks who showed "courage" and voted for Nader in 2000 handed the election to bush43. They should have to spend the rest of their lives writing letters of apology to every family of every soldier killed or wounded in Iraq.
 
I am a big supporter of Sanders. I would much prefer Klein but she doesn't have a prayer. And if HC is the Dem nominee, I'm sure as hell voting for her over someone like Bush or Rubio. The folks who showed "courage" and voted for Nader in 2000 handed the election to bush43. They should have to spend the rest of their lives writing letters of apology to every family of every soldier killed or wounded in Iraq.
Don't forget to add the Clintons to that letter writing. Clinton was the one who was so sure that Iraq had WMD's, that he bombed them, and wrote up the Iraqi LIberation Act, in response to them supposedly having them. If Bush lied, so did Clinton.
 
No you crave drama because you have a hard time actually caring. Superficial, hence why you guys gravitate more towards celebrities and such. You fail to see the natural beauty in life. Unless it comes out of the system, you don't feel at one with it, though you never truly feel at one with anything, including it,......

Vicious, vicious cycle.
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There are only two options that matter. If you are doing as you say, you too are voting for the R or the D. If you are putting your vote on some alternative candidate, I don't think you are doing what you think you're doing.

Completely disagree. Ron Paul's ideas have now, at least in part, entered into the conversation. I believe we could do a lot more of that if we had 3rd Party candidates getting 3-6% of the general every time.

Speak with your vote, and Washington will listen. Keep pulling the lever for the establishment candidates and they lose motivation to change their ways.
 
I am a big supporter of Sanders. I would much prefer Klein but she doesn't have a prayer. And if HC is the Dem nominee, I'm sure as hell voting for her over someone like Bush or Rubio. The folks who showed "courage" and voted for Nader in 2000 handed the election to bush43. They should have to spend the rest of their lives writing letters of apology to every family of every soldier killed or wounded in Iraq.

Long-term vs. Short-term gain. Iraq sucks. I don't think anyone was predicting that Bush was going into Iraq during the election...

If you want policies like Bernie's to be more in play, vote for him. Show the establishment that is what you want.

If everyone bought into this, you wouldn't have the Bush/Gore/Nader situation, because the establishment GOP would be hurt too. Whatever Party incorporates the most ideas would win. And America would be better for it.
 
Thought you said you were done talking to me in this thread?

And thank you for your internet definition of partisan. Now please explain to me how calling Hillary "bad" makes me a strong supporter of her? How does me saying I will have to hold my nose to vote for her makes me a strong supporter? Seems to me that it would make me a begrudgingly supporter of her. Do you see why I suspect that you don't really know the meaning of "partisan?"

And finally, can you please stop with this petulant DNC stuff? I vote third party more than I vote Dem. It just makes everything you say in this thread look ignorant when you ignore a fact that has been stated many times.

You're a DNC partisan, not a Hillary supporter.

Is that really not obvious?


And your previous post about only voting for establishment candidates in "close" elections is idiotic. How many times, pre-election, do you really think you know that the Presidential election won't be "close"???

So, no. I don't think that you're being prudent or reasonable. I think you're voting for who the Dems tell you to vote for, and for that, I'll call you spineless. Party over country. Red's mantra.
 
Completely disagree. Ron Paul's ideas have now, at least in part, entered into the conversation. I believe we could do a lot more of that if we had 3rd Party candidates getting 3-6% of the general every time.

Speak with your vote, and Washington will listen. Keep pulling the lever for the establishment candidates and they lose motivation to change their ways.
Ron Paul disagreed, that's why he ran as a R. Paul is the very proof of my position. You change from within.
 
Completely disagree. Ron Paul's ideas have now, at least in part, entered into the conversation. I believe we could do a lot more of that if we had 3rd Party candidates getting 3-6% of the general every time.

Speak with your vote, and Washington will listen. Keep pulling the lever for the establishment candidates and they lose motivation to change their ways.
George Wallace, John Anderson, and Ross Perot each got at least 6% in their respective elections. What good did that do? You never hear anyone talking about these guys or the parties they represented anymore. We're a Coke and Pepsi nation. RC will likely never win.
 
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) has probably set a new record in the unending impeach-a-president-I-don't-like competition. The previous record we've given to radio host Michael Savage, who called for Obama's impeachment in March of 2009 -- two months into the Obama administration.

Brooks's proposal? That, if elected, Hillary Rodham Clinton could be impeached on her first day in office. Brooks told radio host Matt Murphy that "she will be a unique president if she is elected by the public next November, because the day she's sworn in is the day that she's subject to impeachment because she has committed high crimes and misdemeanors," as reported by the Huffington Post.

So: Pre-impeachment. Primpeachment.

There are some problems with Brooks's argument, though. The Constitution grants the House the power of impeachment for "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Brooks seized on the latter, rather vague set of conditions. To MSNBC's Steve Kornacki, Brooks said that those crimes were "the mishandling of classified information, top secret information" -- by setting up her own e-mail server.

Kornacki asked if Brooks meant that Clinton has already committed impeachable offenses. "In my opinion, yes, sir," Brooks replied.

Whether or not Clinton transmitting classified files in an insecure manner meets the "high crime" or "misdemeanor" standard would mostly be up to the House to determine. But there's another problem for Brooks: The House has, in the past, stated that crimes prior to a person's holding office do not subject them to impeachment in that office.

In 1873, the House considered the impeachment of the sitting vice president, Schuyler Colfax*. As a member of the House several years prior, Colfax was one of several representatives who received discount railroad stock from Rep. Oakes Ames in exchange for votes. (Ames himself was censured by the House.) In response to the scandal, the House asked the Judiciary Committee to figure out who else might be punished for their role in the agreement.

The committee came to the ultimate conclusion that Colfax couldn't be impeached as vice president -- because the alleged crime occurred before he held that position.

The body first asked if the intent of impeachment was remedial or punitive -- that is, if it were meant to correct bad action or to punish it. The members decided that the Founding Fathers intended impeachment to be remedial.

In that case, they figured, the actions being remedied needed to have occurred while the person held the office. From the Congressional Globe, February 1873:

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It reads, in part: "the remedial proceeding of impeachment should only be applied to high crimes and misdemeanors committed while in office, and which alone effect the officer in discharge of his duties as such ... for impeachment touches the office only, and qualifications for the office, and not the man himself."

"For the reasons so hastily stated, and many more which might be adduced," the reply ends, "your committee conclude that both the impeaching power bestowed upon the two Houses by the Constitution and the power of expulsion are remedial only ... and are not to be used in any constitutional sense or right for the purpose of punishing any man for a crime committed before he becomes a member of the House or in case of a civil officer [Ed. – Like vice president.] as just cause of impeachment."

When then-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew requested an impeachment hearing in 1973, following allegations that he'd received bribes, the New York Times opined that he couldn't be impeached because the crimes happened before he was vice president, citing the Colfax case. (Agnew apparently hoped to use impeachment to forestall criminal sanction. His request was denied.)

It's at this point that we'll note that Brooks's claim is enormously unlikely, even in a deeply partisan moment. After all, launching impeachment proceedings based on old information against someone who has just been elected by a majority of Americans and/or the Electoral College is the sort of thing that reflects badly on a politician.

That is to say, primpeachment won't happen. If Clinton is elected, Republicans will have to find some other crime, or just wait until she's ousted four years later.

Which is what happened to Schuyler Colfax.

* This, rather amazingly, is the second time that Colfax has been mentioned by The Post in two months. He was also speaker of the House prior to being elected vice president, and was replaced in that position by Theodore Pomeroy -- who served as speaker for 25 hours until Congress adjourned.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...research-first/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_3_na
 
George Wallace, John Anderson, and Ross Perot each got at least 6% in their respective elections. What good did that do? You never hear anyone talking about these guys or the parties they represented anymore. We're a Coke and Pepsi nation. RC will likely never win.

The fact that candidates, that don't cater to the parties, are unable to get an actual shot, should be completely unacceptable to all Americans. You are arguing for the continuation of it. You are accepting that you can never win against the elite. That is as far from American as I have ever heard. Move to China.
 
The fact that candidates, that don't cater to the parties, are unable to get an actual shot, should be completely unacceptable to all Americans. You are arguing for the continuation of it. You are accepting that you can never win against the elite. That is as far from American as I have ever heard. Move to China.

The United States does not have the political infrastructure for multiple parties. If you want THAT move to a country with a parliamentary govt. Any third party that gains any traction here will have it's message co-opted by one of the Big Two. Far more unlikely would be a third party that actually catches on. And it will ultimately absorb one of the Big Two and become one of...the Big Two.

You want to see a party wither and die? Convince the Tea Party to run under its own identity.
 
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The United States does not have the political infrastructure for multiple parties. If you want THAT move to a country with a parliamentary govt. Any third party that gains any traction here will have it's message co-opted by one of the Big Two. Far more unlikely would be a third party that actually catches on. And it will ultimately absorb one of the Big Two and become one of...the Big Two.

You want to see a party wither and die? Convince the Tea Party to run under its own identity.
Move to China immediately, you are obviously not actually interested in freedom. The Big two...IS NOT a needed system. It is the system that you and yours alike allow for, because you don't care enough to change it, despite that not changing it, makes sure that nothing changes. China,..it's not that expensive of a ticket.
 
The United States does not have the political infrastructure for multiple parties. If you want THAT move to a country with a parliamentary govt. Any third party that gains any traction here will have it's message co-opted by one of the Big Two. Far more unlikely would be a third party that actually catches on. And it will ultimately absorb one of the Big Two and become one of...the Big Two.

You want to see a party wither and die? Convince the Tea Party to run under its own identity.
The talking heads have always pointed out that a vote for a third party is a throw away vote. When you are talking pure ability to get elected, that may be true in the short run. A grass roots effort to fundamentally change an existing party can be devastating to that party’s power such as is predicted for the Republican party with the Tea party movement. But if neither major party supports even some of your basic values, then voting for the least bad is still a bad decision. It re-enforces the existing power.
 
Move to China immediately, you are obviously not actually interested in freedom. The Big two...IS NOT a needed system. It is the system that you and yours alike allow for, because you don't care enough to change it, despite that not changing it, makes sure that nothing changes. China,..it's not that expensive of a ticket.

You realize it has nothing to do with me, don't you? No...you probably don't. It has nothing to do with what is "needed". Our political infrastructure DOESN'T SUPPORT MULTIPLE PARTIES. You can wish for it all you want...it will never happen. If you think otherwise, you might need to go back to Civics 101.
 
The talking heads have always pointed out that a vote for a third party is a throw away vote. When you are talking pure ability to get elected, that may be true in the short run. A grass roots effort to fundamentally change an existing party can be devastating to that party’s power such as is predicted for the Republican party with the Tea party movement. But if neither major party supports even some of your basic values, then voting for the least bad is still a bad decision. It re-enforces the existing power.
Your own tea party argument proves your conclusion false. The tea party worked within the system to impact change. If they had actually been a 3rd party, we would not even talk about them today.
 
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You realize it has nothing to do with me, don't you? No...you probably don't. It has nothing to do with what is "needed". Our political infrastructure DOESN'T SUPPORT MULTIPLE PARTIES. You can wish for it all you want...it will never happen. If you think otherwise, you might need to go back to Civics 101.
This! A thousand times this! The party system is structural. If you want multiple parties, get a new constitution. Change to a parliamentary system. Change to ranked preferential voting. Change the house and senate rules. Until you do this, you will always have just two teams.

While you work on that you might want to ponder the blow back of a multi party system. It's not all roses. It gives the extremes more clout, look at the government of Israel as an example. Our system forces a party to compromise internally to present a united front. A multi party system allows everyone to be pure and stand on principle. Now I know you think that's what you want. I think you would be sorry. It would be like multiple tea parties on steroids on the left and right.
 
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You realize it has nothing to do with me, don't you? No...you probably don't. It has nothing to do with what is "needed". Our political infrastructure DOESN'T SUPPORT MULTIPLE PARTIES. You can wish for it all you want...it will never happen. If you think otherwise, you might need to go back to Civics 101.
No it's all you, you and your kind. We don't cater to your kind 'round here....
 
This! A thousand times this! The party system is structural. If you want multiple parties, get a new constitution. Change to a parliamentary system. Change to ranked preferential voting. Change the house and senate rules. Until you do this, you will always have just two teams.

While you work on that you might want to ponder the blow back of a multi party system. It's not all roses. It gives the extremes more clout, look at the government of Israel as an example. Our system forces a party to compromise internally to present a united front. A multi party system allows everyone to be pure and stand on principle. Now I know you think that's what you want. I think you would be sorry. It would be like multiple tea parties on steroids on the left and right.
The constitution does not state that there HAS to be a two-party system. There has in fact been wins from 3rd party Candidates in our past. You don't know that do you time. Times a Trillion!!!! What is extreme to one is not necessarily extreme to another. I will tell you this, some would see your party as being VERY extreme. Just like others would see the GOP has very extreme. When measured in what actually happens, and when taking an actual humane look what comes from the actions,....I see lots of extreme.
 
Do you think Bill and Hill would matching impeachment cups or towels or something? You hardly see them together anymore, this might really bring them closer together.
 
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Your own tea party argument proves your conclusion false. The tea party worked within the system to impact change. If they had actually been a 3rd party, we would not even talk about them today.
The Tea party started out as an actual grass roots organization. Then the GOP swooped in and took claim of it. Then they used it, to point to their own extremities, and as a patsy for their decision making.

The Tea party was a lie.
 
Do you think Bill and Hill would matching impeachment cups or towels or something? You hardly see them together anymore, this might really bring them closer together.
The devil twins need to stay far apart from each other. It would be fitting that Clinton, the NWO b!tch that he is, would become the first Gentlmen.
 
Because we're a democratic republic with reps from the elite class holding the power to block change in part because of thinking like yours. Go vote for the good team and stop sniping from the sidelines.
There is no good team. This is not about teams.
 
The constitution does not state that there HAS to be a two-party system. There has in fact been wins from 3rd party Candidates in our past. You don't know that do you time. Times a Trillion!!!! What is extreme to one is not necessarily extreme to another. I will tell you this, some would see your party as being VERY extreme. Just like others would see the GOP has very extreme. When measured in what actually happens, and when taking an actual humane look what comes from the actions,....I see lots of extreme.
The windmills aren't going anywhere, tilt away my little Lamanchan. Some people just can't be taught.
 
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Because we're a democratic republic with reps from the elite class holding the power to block change in part because of thinking like yours. Go vote for the good team and stop sniping from the sidelines.
If I may, that doesn't make sense to me because of a few reasons. You are adhering to the idea that the reason we have issues is because of the system and those who take advantage of that within the 'ruling' classes. This is most certainly true when speaking of political matters within the current climate of this country.
You then blamed people who understand that, as yourself does, as the reason why. Doesn't it make more sense to say that the people who don't understand that are the real reason why? Though you are another source of blame due to your apathy. Either way, you proved against your own point, and then suddenly swerved back in line with your point.
 
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Politics is always about teams.
Which is too bad if you think about it. Because of the competitive nature of the common American, they will automatically feel that because they are on a team, that they must find competition against the other team. Or any team if we are to be more precise.
After awhile Romeo and Juliets families had long forgot why they were fighting, yet continued on due to habit, instead of stopping to think why their fighting was eventually going to lead to the falls of both of their families. Shakespeare was clearly ahead of his time. Or maybe we just don't give history it's due, as this seems to be the same issue we have had for centuries now.
 
If I may, that doesn't make sense to me because of a few reasons. You are adhering to the idea that the reason we have issues is because of the system and those that within the 'ruling' classes. This is most certainly true when speaking of political matters within the current climate of this country.
You then blamed people who understand that, as yourself does, as the reason why. Doesn't it make more sense to say that the people who don't understand that are the real reason why? Though you are another source of blame due to your apathy. Either way, you proved against your own point, and then suddenly swerved back in line with your point.
Where do you see apathy in my position? And we can certainly blame those who vote for the pro elite policies and those who fail to vote for the pro redistribution policies.
 
Which is too bad if you think about it. Because of the competitive nature of the common American, they will automatically feel that because they are on a team, that they must find competition against the other team. Or any team if we are to be more precise.
After awhile Romeo and Juliets families had long forgot why they were fighting, yet continued on due to habit, instead of stopping to think why their fighting was eventually going to lead to the falls of both of their families. Shakespeare was clearly ahead of his time. Or maybe we just don't give history it's due, as this seems to be the same issue we have had for centuries now.
I disagree. Teams bring like minded people together, foster cooperation, maintain peace and produce results. Politics works. And if you ever forget what the teams are fighting about, read the party platforms. It's all spelled out.
 
Where do you see apathy in my position? And we can certainly blame those who vote for the pro elite policies and those who fail to vote for the pro redistribution policies.
I see it in the very core of your argument. You know that there is a problem. You have very rightfully pointed out the system allows for the ruling class to continue to move forward because of it. The apathy is seen when you have simply shown that you don't care enough to take the tough road to changing the system. You care just enough to stay in the system and hope for the best. Hope isn't change though, its making wishes, or saying prayers at best. Empathy and wanting to take action that could and would promote and make change, would then erase your apathy. Until then, all I see is apathy.
 
I disagree. Teams bring like minded people together, foster cooperation, maintain peace and produce results. Politics works. And if you ever forget what the teams are fighting about, read the party platforms. It's all spelled out.
Perhaps if we walked away from the idea of having a team, and simply looked at societies problems with the idea of actually fixing those said problems, we would be best served. It seems to be by the way, that the parties say they are fighting for one thing, but are leading the voters away from what it is that is needed. I disagree with you that it's spelled out amongst the parties.
Take the Iraq war for an example. When the war was declared, we were told that we were fighting against terrorism that wanted our freedoms and to stop them from getting the means to acquire the tools to do just that.
Now we know though don't we, that what we were told was not only wrong, but a preconceived lie from the very beginning.
We now are more locked down freedom wise and have even more terror threats to contend with than before.
It was spelled out as 'fight for freedom, end the terror'. Within the spelling was a coded transmission that now reads, 'fight for resources, deal with the terror that comes from it.'
 
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I see it in the very core of your argument. You know that there is a problem. You have very rightfully pointed out the system allows for the ruling class to continue to move forward because of it. The apathy is seen when you have simply shown that you don't care enough to take the tough road to changing the system. You care just enough to stay in the system and hope for the best. Hope isn't change though, its making wishes, or saying prayers at best. Empathy and wanting to take action that could and would promote and make change, would then erase your apathy. Until then, all I see is apathy.
We disagree again. The solution to the pro elitist policies is to champion the populist pro redistribution policies. The nexus of that movement is within the D party. If you want to bring down the ruling class simply vote your own self interest and be the ruling class. We did it before when we busted the gilded robber barons and we did it again when government created the middle class after WWII. We simply need the wisdom to do it again. But running from the hard work of working within the system is childish self indulgence and the true seat of apathy.
 
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