Hayden Fry was a relentless recruiter. Bret Bielema is a relentless recruiter. In fact, you could attribute Iowa's success in the early 2000's to his ability to recruit.
Kirk Ferentz is a great guy but he has NEVER been a recruiter.
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Hayden Fry was a relentless recruiter. Bret Bielema is a relentless recruiter. In fact, you could attribute Iowa's success in the early 2000's to his ability to recruit.
Not disagreeing with what you said overall...I'd put the two MS recruits for ISU in the...wait and see if they sign category.
Coaches will be in TN later this week to evaluate a rb and a DT prospect..both are currently verballed to other P5 teams.
I am just saying that is pretty impressive considering what they have to sell.
If you consider Purdue a P5 program. And this is exactly what I am talking about. They get rid of an elite RB recruit and end up looking at a fall back guy who is a low 3 star signed to one of the worst P5 teams in the country.
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I agree 100%. Iowa's small population base has nothing to do with it. We aren't and shouldn't be strictly recruiting Iowa anyway. I've said it before but if Saban or Meyer or Harbaugh were at Iowa you would see a different level of recruiting. Lincoln, Columbus, and Ann Arbor can be just as cold as Iowa City in November and December.
We have the facilities. We have the money to pay our coaches very well. We have a rabid fan base. We aren't Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Iowa State ...
We've made excuses in the past you can't get the skilled players to come to cold Iowa City, etc. Those are excuses. They really are. The right coach can recruit players to Alaska if needed. You have to sell them and you have to relate to them. Kirk has always sold Iowa as "we're not flashy" ... It's the self-image we've created. We've told ourselves for so long that we're just little 'ol Iowa. No, we should expect more. Absolutely we should. It's like in life, the opinion you create of yourself ... Telling yourself you aren't very smart, or you talk too much, or you aren't good enough ... or you don't like your job ... It's all about your attitude. It really is.
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I don't know much about the rb prospect. I think Wisky offered recently, though..Might be a decent back considering their recent history at that position..Heck, Iowa might not end up offering..I know they were looking at a kid that is verballed to Pitt. He was originally verballed to the Buckeyes for awhile..All they can do is go out and evaluate for now,due to it being a "quiet period". Also, they can look at the DT prospect while watching Branch...Two birds, one stone, approach..maybe?
I just have to ask what exactly do you believe to be what is expected out of this program today, given the below historical fact about Iowa Football. What I've seen stated is 8 or more wins most all years, with an occasional dip below that maybe once every 10 years.
If the ABF crowd had the power to replace KF for next year, here's what history he'd be up against.
After World War II, Iowa has never won 2/3 or more of it's games played 4 seasons straight. The closest it ever came to occurring was Fry from 81 to 87 (Iowa won 8 out of 13 in 1984).
It did happen...
Evy = 56 to 58
Fry = 81 to 83 and 85 to 87
Ferentz = 02 to 04
Consecutive winning seasons...
Fry = 8, 81-88 (longest outside those years was 3)
Ferentz = 5, 01-05
4, 08-11
Evy/Burns = 6, 56-61
So, what exactly is acceptable for the next guy? Cause it looks to me what's being asked of The Next Guy is something more than what arguably has been done at most 4 times in 70+ years.
If the ABF crowd had the power to replace KF for next year, here's what history he'd be up against.
After World War II, Iowa has never won 2/3 or more of it's games played 4 seasons straight. The closest it ever came to occurring was Fry from 81 to 87 (Iowa won 8 out of 13 in 1984).
It did happen...
Evy = 56 to 58
Fry = 81 to 83 and 85 to 87
Ferentz = 02 to 04
Consecutive winning seasons...
Fry = 8, 81-88 (longest outside those years was 3)
Ferentz = 5, 01-05
4, 08-11
Evy/Burns = 6, 56-61
So, what exactly is acceptable for the next guy? Cause it looks to me what's being asked of The Next Guy is something more than what arguably has been done at most 4 times in 70+ years.
For goodness sakes. WWII is your starting point? You'll get no credibility and few responses if you are going that route.
Hayden Fry built the Iowa program into what it is today. KF has done little to nothing towards improving on that foundation. That's what fans expect. An upward trajectory.
I personally don't care if KF is the HC. I have resigned myself to staying home and not spending my money. I'm just engaging in the conversation. I'm not here trying to get KF fired.
All the recruiter has to do is tell a recruit, look we may be Iowa and it's not always the prettiest, but besides Bama and OSU, no one in the country puts more players into the NFL than Iowa. If you want to play in the NFL, come here and we will get you ready, physically, mentally and playing wise. I don't see why he doesn't get more 4 or 5 start Offensive or Defensive Lineman because those are the most he puts into the NFL. That would in turn, bring more RB recruits and QB recruits playing behind that line as well as possibly more LB and CB top level recruits knowing that if you have 4 or 5 star d-linemen, you will have an opportunity to make plays. It's that simple. Recruit to what you know and that is getting players to the NFL. The rest will fall in line.
that is the problem. They can't even sell good O lineman to come to Iowa.
This is the truth^^^. 5* OL should be beating down the doors to get in here.
Well..there was a 4 star legacy OL that wanted an offer last year...Think the staff made a mistake on not offering him?
I don't know anything about him. One instance isn't making or breaking my point. It should be a really easy sell. Don't you think?
I think there is a hell of alot more that goes into it than just a website's recruiting ranking. I just listed one player that made it public that he was very interested in Iowa..I have no idea if 15 4-5 star players were interested in Iowa and were turned down or if the number has been flatlined at 0-1 a year,for a few years.
I'm not all that caught up in star rankings. But our record is pretty much in line with our recruiting rankings under the KF regime. Someone posted it once. Our average results were slightly better than our avg rankings.
The part I bolded is definitely not true. The rest sounds nice and simple, but recruiting is not that simple. There are many more factors that go into recruiting than just how the school develops NFL talent.
I would argue that, while Bo Pelini was far for a great recruiter, in fact, he didn't care for it, the new staff is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Those who argue that Nebraska isn't doing really well in recruiting isn't paying attention to Nebraska's recruiting and what is going on. They have had more 4* and 5* OVs this year than any other program in the country (as of a week ago, I believe). They are now in on A LOT of elite talent, but they're going to have to wait for the process to play out with each of them.
We have multiple 5 star recruits who have Nebraska at the top of their lists (Lewis and Sarell) and are in on a whole bunch of 4 star recruits. But most of them are going to take all their visits before they commit. We'll lose our fair amount of them, as that's what happens when you recruit the big fish (as opposed to how Pelini would aim his sights much lower and complain about the disadvantages of recruiting kids to Nebraska). But we're going to reel a couple of them in as well, IMO.
The important thing is that the staff has done a phenomenal job selling what is Nebraska is all about. The fact that we've been able to get that many excellent prospects to campus is a testament to the fact that interest in Nebraska from the player standpoint is building. Whether the staff is recruiting at an elite level or not is not as important of a question as whether they're doing the best they can with the resources afforded them. There are always going to challenges trying to pull kids out of hotbeds like California, Texas, and the South. Iowa realizes this as well. But the Nebraska staff has embraced the product they have to sell and are doing a MUCH better job than Pelini ever did.
I think I'm in the vast minority on this board when it comes to what I want in a football coach.
I want my kids to grow up to be great guys, and I want them to have great people as their role models as they grow up, and I want them hanging out with friends from great families. I want my friends and co-workers to be great people. I want to have great people as my neighbors and members of my church.
My football coach - I want him to know how to frickin' win and be motivated as heck to do it, and if he's a miserable bastard, so be it.
If having a saint for your football coach helps you sleep at night, that's great, but come on. Do you really think the fans of Louisville football are just not quite enjoying this season so much because Petrino has shown a pattern of low moral character? Give me a break. I suppose it's better having a nice guy as a coach when you're losing (as opposed to Alford), but wouldn't you rather win?
Just sayin'. I'll probably get some backlash on this board, but I have a feeling that more people agree with me than are willing to admit it.
I want my kids to grow up to be great guys, and I want them to have great people as their role models as they grow up, and I want them hanging out with friends from great families. I want my friends and co-workers to be great people. I want to have great people as my neighbors and members of my church.
My football coach - I want him to know how to frickin' win and be motivated as heck to do it, and if he's a miserable bastard, so be it.
If having a saint for your football coach helps you sleep at night, that's great, but come on. Do you really think the fans of Louisville football are just not quite enjoying this season so much because Petrino has shown a pattern of low moral character? Give me a break. I suppose it's better having a nice guy as a coach when you're losing (as opposed to Alford), but wouldn't you rather win?
Just sayin'. I'll probably get some backlash on this board, but I have a feeling that more people agree with me than are willing to admit it.
College football matrix does a great job with analytics and Ferentz has a negative coaching effect rating. Last year might have changed that a little but he said you can generally look at roster talent and schedule and predict the number of wins Iowa should have and then take one win away and you will be pretty good at predicting what Iowa's record will be. Also says Davis grades really badly as an OC. Shocker.
Can someone please explain why the Iowa fanbase is suddenly fascinated with Star ratings?
I've read this board for years and your mantra has always been "stars mean nothing." You go 12-0 last year and "our staff is the greatest in the country at developing talent"...you lose a few games this season, and suddenly "we need 4 star players." Kirk is a great coach...so far having a tough year. I can see a win in Happy Valley,
and then everyone will be back to the "next man up" mentality.
I've read this board for years and your mantra has always been "stars mean nothing." You go 12-0 last year and "our staff is the greatest in the country at developing talent"...you lose a few games this season, and suddenly "we need 4 star players." Kirk is a great coach...so far having a tough year. I can see a win in Happy Valley,
and then everyone will be back to the "next man up" mentality.
Aside from an outlying #5 class in the country, the Rivals rankings have pretty much been in the same range regardless of coach
Not according to the recruiting sites, but when you are top 20 team in developing NFL players one could argue that our recruiting is better than what outsiders view it, or Iowa is in fact much much better at developing players
I think Iowa fans just want Iowa to get "bigger" fish. We put all this $$ into facilities because our coaches were even quoted as saying, " our facilities are lacking and behind the times compared to the rest of the big ten." Well we upgraded and several recruits have even mentioned how nice they are. But its not translating into "better" classes. I mean we pay a guy something like 4.5mil a year and we are getting (50-60) team rankings in recruiting. That shouldn't be happening. W/brand new facilities and a top 12 coach, we should be able to pull in a top 30 class every other year. So what gives.
Last year you saw Iowa go 12-0 against their schedule (it was weak). But nothing they could do about it, they had to play the games. Then the Rose Bowl happened and I think that is what got everyone up in arms. You could tell across the line and at every position Stanford had an advantage. Athletically they were better across the board. Getting 2 star guys is okay, but if you want to compete with the big boys, you need to do a little better. That's where a lot of the fans are upset is, we seem content on getting the 2-3 star guys. For the $$ that is paid out, Iowa should be able to come up with something better.
Just my opinion on things. KF needs to upgrade his coaching staff and recruiting budget. I mean all of our "top rated" recruits are either "legacy" or have someone close to the program already. I would say KF needs to start "opening" up some job opportunities for some of these "top recruits" HS coaches. Seems to work for Harbaugh.
I did hear something the other day listening to Drew Tate podcast. They were talking to Albert Young and he said that he committed to Iowa because Daryl Wilson got him to come there Said Daryl was a high school coach in Jersey and had "ties" to the area. Why isn't Ferentz trying to find guys like that. It seemed to work for Hayden Fry down in Texas.
Recruiting is all about sales, at any place that isn't a true blue blood program. Some places tend to sell themselves. We all get that. Good salesmen are highly coveted in all industries and there is a good reason for that. Everyone here has experienced good and bad salesmen in our lives. From furniture purchases to cars and everything in between. It seems to me that the only salesmen KF values is a guy named Cornrich.
D. Wilson was a high school coach in Jersey..... in the past...Alvarez gassed him off his staff...KF hires him. Young switches his verbal from Wisky to Iowa..
B.Kennedy was an ast recruiting coordinator in Texas for a few years..he should still have some "ties" down there..
Wishful thinking on your part, not mine. I just quoted the Rivals National Recruiting Director who said the exact opposite of what you just said and you still think there's no evidence to support it.
I'm a realist and not going to lie to you or myself. Not trolling you. Just stating the obvious to anyone who follows recruiting.
You said the Calibraska movement is all but dead.
5* Lewis
4* Taariq Johnson
4* Greg Johnson
4* Rhayme Johnson
4* Calvin
4* Banks
4* Hodgins
Just from California and have all visited Lincoln in the last two home games - Neb in good shape with all of them. Just off the top of my head. Thats not counting 4* Calloway, etc from other states in the last few weeks.
Did Bo Pelini even get a 5* on campus? Cause just this year 5* Holmes, Lewis, Sarrell have visited, like several times. 4* Lenoir, 4* Peoples - Jones, etc etc. Many officials left and more 5* and 4* visiting. I'd venture to guess there have been more 4* and 5* in Lincoln the last few weeks than have been in Iowa City the last 5 years combined - no offense. Bo Pelini and staff were never close. Trust me.
Getting guys to visit means nothing. If he wraps some of those guys up and signs a top 20 class, the proof will be there. Until it happens, there is no evidence to support it.
U r delusional pal. This thread isn't about Nebraska. I guess u just wanted to spout off about ur delusional re recruiting. Peoples-Jones...not even a prayer he goes to Nebby. I suspect ur unfounded arrogance will dissipate in the next two weeks.
I don't think you are in the minority - at least on this board. But, I do disagree with your opinion.
I went to school at Iowa and live about 40 minutes from Kinnick. I enjoy rooting for players and coaches that are intelligent and are high character guys.
The college football I fell in love with is going away. It's all business now, with coaches making millions and strong talk of player compensation.
I don't know how anyone can objectively look at the Iowa Football program the last 18 years and state that KF is a poor coach or a poor recruiter. Is he the best coach/recruiter in the country? No. But he has done a heck of a job IMO.
Oh, but he makes $4 million! So, he should be the best coach/recruiter in the country! Well, don't look now, but he's getting passed more often. Harbaugh is making $9 million.
This is the problem I think. I mean KF is one of the top 12 paid coaches in the country. I mean the guy is set for life. Yes he has given us 4 memorable seasons (02, 05, 09, and 15). 4+million worth only 4 seasons out of 18?
I do appreciate that he is loyal and very giving of his money back to the U of Iowa hospitals. I do also like that he runs a "clean" program. I also like that we are also always guaranteed at least a 6-6 seasons.
But is 4+million worth 6-6 seasons? I am pretty sure they could find someone to come in here for 1-2 million and probably do the same.
My favorite season was 2004. The finished in the Top 10 after the 2003 season. They beat an undefeated Penn St in 08. If you only value those 4 seasons I can see why you are disappointed.
Would it somehow be better if he did make less money? Why do we compare his record to his compensation? What difference does it make?
They would help themselves a lot with this class if they can hang on to what they have, and get Martin, Van Ginkel, Reitmaier, one of the 3 RB commits (Branch, Sibley and can't remember the other kids name), and Nelson.
Don't understand why they stopped recruiting Daniels. I know it would be difficult because of the Chevin situation but they should at least try.
Don't understand why they stopped recruiting Daniels. I know it would be difficult because of the Chevin situation but they should at least try.
I should clarify from 2002-2005 those were some fun years. That little stretch was awesome and I loved being in kinnick for every game. 2008-2010 was also a good stretch. Then last year was a fun year.
It just seems like every time he gets an extension the team goes into the tank. I also think that yes he is over paid for what he is giving us fans. I mean people shell out 200+ dollars a weekend to go watch Iowa football and what do they throw out there? The same old BS conservative brand of football. When KF was first at Iowa, what part of the game was Iowa always good at? Special Teams. We always blocked a punt, returned a kick or something of that nature. When was the last time we gambled a blocked a punt?
He is showing us a very bland and boring style of football. I don't know why you would want to come play for him if your a "skill player? There is no reason to, your not going to get the ball. Even former players have bad mouthed his conservative style of coaching (Tate, Young, and others). I do not get why he is so content on taking the "easy" way out. Take a gamble at least once in your life. Notice how every year we go for 4th down in the non-conf. Then when Big Ten play rolls around KF butthole tightens up and we punt every time.
I don't know but he is not worth what he is getting paid. To be top 12 in the NATION in pay and your overall record is 132-90 (80-63 in conference). I am sure some schools would fire their coach for that record (Georgia). 8 years he has had a record of 7-5 or worse. I didn't count the 1st two years because that's not fair to him. So basically 8 out of 16 years we are average. 3 out of those 16 years we have had 8&9 wins. The other 5 we have had double digit wins. Sorry but if your making 4+million dollars your 10 win seasons need to outweigh your 7-5 seasons. Just my opinion.
For every player that is critical of KF, there are 2 dozen more that sing his praises. And, the Hawks have attempted more 4th down conversions in the last 3 years than I can ever remember - inside and out of the B1G.
Bottom line - you don't like him and I do. We each have lots of things to point out that support our opinions. Personally, the $4 million is irrelevant to me because it's not my money. But, I get why that bugs people.
I would be interested to see his record in the last decade measured against every other FBS school (except OSU & Alabama - those are professional programs). I think the Hawks would stack up pretty well.
The other factor is expectations. I believe that having a successful football program at Iowa is very difficult. Many don't think it is any more difficult than anywhere else. So, if you look at the last decade (again) of all of the programs in the midwest, you will find few that are better. Certainly, Wisky is better. I suppose K-State? Nebby, IDK. But, Minny, Illinois, Missouri, Indiana, Purdue, KY, Kansas, ISU, NW, Cincy,- even Notre Dame. Which ones have better football programs from top to bottom than Iowa? Throw in Mich & Pennsylvania if you want, and you have MSU that has been better over the last decade. Of course, Mich will be better.
I think it is damn difficult to win 10 games. To do it most years is incredibly difficult. I'm not convinced that anyone could do it at Iowa.
I think he was trying to show that this is not the same Nebraska staff that recruited players when Bo Pelini was the HC. He demonstrated that by showing you who they actually were able to convince to use one of their 5 visits and come see the program. If you want to discount OVs, that's your choice, but it doesn't mean you're right. In fact, if you think that by choosing the least likely of all the visitors to commit to Nebraska you can make an argument that OVs don't matter and Nebraska isn't any better at recruiting now than they were under the old regime, you are likely the one with delusions.
Meanwhile, you ignored the folks who he mentioned that were actually strongly considering or had already committed to the staff. Nebraska is after big fish, and the fact that they're receiving OVs and consideration from a good number of them is a testament to the work they're doing. Nebraska's recruiting may not be elite at the moment, but to infer that it's just as it has been for the last 10-15 years would be incorrect.
The information shown about Nebraska recruiting with Riley's staff>recruiting with Bo Pelini's staff is out there. Your claim that there is "nothing" that supports that is very false. Now, you could be accurate in saying that, "based on 18 months worth of commitments, they seem relatively similar." I can't argue with that much. But, as you know, the results are a manifestation of the process. And Mike Riley's recruiting process is MUCH MUCH stronger than BP' ever was. The results are beginning to show in the players that are giving Nebraska OVs and have Nebraska high on their list. That was never the case with BP. And before you show proof in the results, you've got to show proof in the process. Right now, the proof is in the process, and I'm very confident that it will also show up in the results. So saying that "there is nothing that supports" MR>BP in recruiting is simply false.
Lol please show me that "information" that you have so conveniently not included. The only thing that matters in recruiting is results. Whether the "process" is good or bad in your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Whichever way gets better players on the field is what matters, and so far, there is absolutely no proof of one being better than the other. Your whole premise is based on something that you hope will be true. Mine is based on what has manifested thus far. So as of today, MR=BP in recruiting until proven otherwise.
Good points about CFBMatrix. His analytics are pretty interesting and surprisingly accurate. Except, for a little while he had Bo Pelini as a +1 guy, and really, it was Ndamukong Suh who was the +1. He just gave the credit to the HC.
I'm surprised Ferentz has a negative coaching effect rating. Given the games Iowa played last year, weren't there more than 1 or 2 that they won that would have positively impacted his coach effect?
Obviously must be fine with KF's view on in season recruiting...
For what it's worth, Iowa deserves better than what it's getting.
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