Let's not overreact!

[MSU158]

NC State is a very good team. Iowa won the matches they should have other than the match that was closest to a toss up.

125: Gilman looked really good!
133: Clark isn't a point scoring machine unless he scores from top. Still he won convincingly.
141: Sadly Grothus is closer to the guy I got beat up on here for saying he was last year.
149: Sorenson will make the finals. Book it.
157: Cooper wrestled a stud much better than the 1st time.
165: it was a much closer match than I expected.
174: ugly or not Meyer finds ways to win.
184: Brooks needs to go back to being the guy that goes for broke. One match backfired last year and he hasn't been the same. Go back to being that relentless attacker.
197: see 174.
285: the guy was losing to the undefeated 2x champ. Not sure how to act like the sky is falling here.

Could they have wrestled a bit better? Sure. However, Brooks is the only result that should be surprising and he lost to a very solid wrestler.

The sky isn't falling. They didn't just lose to MSU. They lost 5 out of 10 matches to a team that also beat OkState and Missouri.

Honestly, this could be a good thing. A loss here is a whole lot better than in March! motivation, motivation, motivation!

 

[Azchief32]

Haha...too late.

 

[MSU158]

I hear ya. However, that saying is usually prefaced by overreaction. You usually don't say it until after you see it. Hopefully a mostly unbiased assessment calms some of the Brands and co. detractors.

Duals can be funny sometimes. The only unexpected loss was Brooks and Iowa went from winning 6 of 10 to 5 of 10. That one match ends up being the difference between everyone saying it all went as planned to calling for a "regime change".

In the end I can only see a positive coming from this. Hopefully, this lights a fire under Brooks' behind!

 

[Omahahawk86]

Brooks was the only awful result. He looks lost out there. Renda is tough but not an AA and he beat him convincingly.

I actually think Burak wrestled well. The kid he wrestled is actually pretty tough.

Too late to turn your back on Grothus now. You've got to go with him. Let's hope he can get inspired because he has to qualify for nationals before anything. Carton quietly had a pretty darn good big ten season. I think he would have qualified and went 2-2 3-2 at nationals and could have used the experience for next year.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

I was looking for Iowa to get some more bonus points than they did. It wasn't just one match...this was an Iowa squad that didn't look like they wanted to be out there.

It almost felt like "we didn't get the matchup we wanted (Penn State), so we're just going to mail it in". Ironically, that 2012 meet referenced in Columbus was similar, in that it came two days before the visit to Rec Hall, and you guys seemed to be looking ahead. That said, you guys didn't wrestle all that outstanding at Penn State that day, and THEY were the ones with all of the reason to be flat (it was the day of Paterno passing).

 

[Sandor45]

Worst dual experience at Carver I've ever had.
Hawks looked uninspired.
Brooks was definitely injured going out there. His shots were basically dropping straight down to one knee and extending his arms out. There's no drive to his shots.
Grothus literally looked like a rag doll out there.

 

[Omahahawk86]

I think the "this lights a fire under Brooks behind" card has been played too many times now. Maybe he just isn't as good as we all think/hope he would be. Maybe it's an OPRF thing? Dardanes had how many AA finishes between them out of 8 tries....1 or 2?

I agree. He had a cupcake schedule all year and he just needed a few decent wins to get a high seed at nationals. Let's hope his right leg isn't still open for business at big tens or he'll be seeded in the mid teens at nationals. Wait though, he teched Jordan Rogers earlier this year so he was going to challenge Dean for the title.

 

[MSU158]

I think the "this lights a fire under Brooks behind" card has been played too many times now. Maybe he just isn't as good as we all think/hope he would be. Maybe it's an OPRF thing? Dardanes had how many AA finishes between them out of 8 tries....1 or 2?

Chris Dardanes was a 3x AA finishing 4th,6th, r12(unsuccessful bump to 141) and 4th. Nick went R12, 7th, R16 and 1-2. They were pretty successful.

 

[Omahahawk86]

I highly doubt the Dardanes would say their college careers was remotely close to what they thought or wanted it to be. They were huge studs right out of the gate and seemed to decline. I will say one of the biggest 33 pounders I've ever seen.

 

[MSU158]

Nick definitely flopped at NCAA's considering How high he was seeded each year, but Chris did very well. He was a bad draw(he caught Port in the R12) away from being a 4x AA.

 

[Stanley75]

I think we all saw PSU win and wanted to copy that. The thing that may be the most telling is PSU has some freshman that are getting better as the season progresses. We don't have any freshman that are getting better. That is what concerns me.

 

[MSU158]

Iowa has Kemerer and Turk getting considerably better. They will have some big freshman next year as well. This year wasn't really recruited for other than the crazy legal issue that messed up 141. Kemerer, Marinelli And Meija are their 1st super blue chips in a while. Get ready for great results from these three. If the can land Lee, they will stay right there with PSU for the next 4-5 years.

 

[Omahahawk86]

The internet legend of Turk grows and grows.

 

[rossel 33]

I think we all saw PSU win and wanted to copy that. The thing that may be the most telling is PSU has some freshman that are getting better as the season progresses. We don't have any freshman that are getting better. That is what concerns me.

---
Those freshmen that PSU have who are "getting better" were extremely good to begin with. Top 10 p4p guys out of HS, having had tremendous success.

Retherford was a World cadet FS champ, wrestled for PSU as a true fr, reaching AA status and beat the unbeatable Stieber. It looks like the current group of starting RS fr, Nolf and Nickal are cut from the same cloth, absolutely top tier coming out of HS (top 10 p4p). So was McIntosh.... and Megaludis.... and Gulibon... and Nevills. PSU is loading up too...recruited the #1 152# Mason Manville, a cadet World champion, and #1 everything (170# and p4p) Mark Hall.

Iowa's recruiting has taken a turn for the better recently, but PSU is way ahead of everyone when it comes to grabbing the very top guys. Cael gets some credit for his coaching.... but imho, it is his recruiting that is making the difference.

 

[LaxHawk174]

---
Those freshmen that PSU have who are "getting better" were extremely good to begin with. Top 10 p4p guys out of HS, having had tremendous success.

Retherford was a World cadet FS champ, wrestled for PSU as a true fr, reaching AA status and beat the unbeatable Stieber. It looks like the current group of starting RS fr, Nolf and Nickal are cut from the same cloth, absolutely top tier coming out of HS (top 10 p4p). So was McIntosh.... and Megaludis.... and Gulibon... and Nevills. PSU is loading up too...recruited the #1 152# Mason Manville, a cadet World champion, and #1 everything (170# and p4p) Mark Hall.

Iowa's recruiting has taken a turn for the better recently, but PSU is way ahead of everyone when it comes to grabbing the very top guys. Cael gets some credit for his coaching.... but imho, it is his recruiting that is making the difference.

The problem is we need to have 5 guys who are all top 3, but this season we only have 4 of them. Our 4 returning AA's. Like Tarp has been saying, we're 2 studs short. My hope is that Kemerer and Marinelli can both come into the lineup and achieve just that for us next season. Then have a good supporting cast who could have a few AA's (Meyer/Brooks/Stoll). Although we do lose Burak, Grothus and Coop (who i am starting to have higher hopes for). We need to be able to start putting 5 horses on the mat in one season all high AA's and multiple finalists. tOSU won last year with 4 horses and 1 supporting AA. PSU is the favorite this year with 5 horses and good enough supporting cast.

This year Top 3's
Gilman
Clark
Sorensen
Burak

Next year
Gilman
Clark
Sorensen
and hoping that..
Kemerer
Marinelli
can also be high impact guys right out of the gate.

 

[MSU158]

The internet legend of Turk grows and grows.

Not sure where you took this from. I never said he was a world beater. I simply pointed out that he has made noticeable improvement during the season......

 

[SetonHallPirate]

One more thing I should bring up...look at the guys who always wind up under-performing at Nationals for you guys...almost always the upperclassmen. Not sure why, but the freshmen and sophomores have generally been the ones keeping you guys in the team trophy positions.

 

[Knight563]

Did the sun come up this morning....

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Knight, can't confirm whether it did or didn't. My plane left to fly home at 5:30 this morning!

 

[artradley]

Did the sun come up this morning....

Yes, but it came up in Pennsylvania a lot earlier than it did in Iowa...

 

[Knight563]

Knight, can't confirm whether it did or didn't. My plane left to fly home at 5:30 this morning!

Safe travels! It did come up and we all need to chill

The horses are coming. Back in top soon.

 

[MitchL]

I think the "this lights a fire under Brooks behind" card has been played too many times now. Maybe he just isn't as good as we all think/hope he would be. Maybe it's an OPRF thing? Dardanes had how many AA finishes between them out of 8 tries....1 or 2?

I was going to post the same thing regarding the ORPF guys. Many have come into college with high expectations, but few have lived up to the hype.

To me, they are the Illinois version of Iowa's WSR. This is going to rile one of our resident posters, but given this years redshirt results, I think this is a recurring theme. Maybe it is mental.

 

[Lambertt]

Not sure where you took this from. I never said he was a world beater. I simply pointed out that he has made noticeable improvement during the season......

I'll be seeing you on the 5th know it all.

 

[artradley]

Not sure where you took this from. I never said he was a world beater. I simply pointed out that he has made noticeable improvement during the season......

The problem is, we need world beaters.

 

[redghost1974]

---
Those freshmen that PSU have who are "getting better" were extremely good to begin with. Top 10 p4p guys out of HS, having had tremendous success.

Retherford was a World cadet FS champ, wrestled for PSU as a true fr, reaching AA status and beat the unbeatable Stieber. It looks like the current group of starting RS fr, Nolf and Nickal are cut from the same cloth, absolutely top tier coming out of HS (top 10 p4p). So was McIntosh.... and Megaludis.... and Gulibon... and Nevills. PSU is loading up too...recruited the #1 152# Mason Manville, a cadet World champion, and #1 everything (170# and p4p) Mark Hall.

Iowa's recruiting has taken a turn for the better recently, but PSU is way ahead of everyone when it comes to grabbing the very top guys. Cael gets some credit for his coaching.... but imho, it is his recruiting that is making the difference.

How they hell are they funding these guys or are they paying their way? Are they handing out academic scholarships like candy?

PSU continues to be gifted with almost no injuries to their top guys also. Name one of their big guns since Cael took over that has been dinged up at nationals. Quinton his last year?

 

[menges00]

I think we all saw PSU win and wanted to copy that. The thing that may be the most telling is PSU has some freshman that are getting better as the season progresses. We don't have any freshman that are getting better. That is what concerns me.

Stoll

 

[MSU158]

I'll be seeing you on the 5th know it all.

My own personal internet stalker. I feel so privileged!

 

[PSU Mike]

How they hell are they funding these guys or are they paying their way? Are they handing out academic scholarships like candy?

PSU continues to be gifted with almost no injuries to their top guys also. Name one of their big guns since Cael took over that has been dinged up at nationals. Quinton his last year?

There was this set of twins ... aw nevermind.

 

[artradley]

How they hell are they funding these guys or are they paying their way? Are they handing out academic scholarships like candy?

PSU continues to be gifted with almost no injuries to their top guys also. Name one of their big guns since Cael took over that has been dinged up at nationals. Quinton his last year?

IMO a lot fewer wrestlers these days need the skolly. Most of the top HS guys got there because their parents have the resources to pay for private lessons, personal trainers, trips around the country, private school, etc. Watching kids in my area, I estimate that some of the top kids are dropping $10k to $20k a year from fifth grade on. A handful of kids who I know personally spent more than that. Once you've dropped $100k on wrestling, it's pretty clear you don't need a scholarship for a state school.

So you get four or five who waive the scholarship, maybe a couple who get academic scholarships, and five kids getting 50% and you have a nice stable.

 

[AFHawk86]

One more thing I should bring up...look at the guys who always wind up under-performing at Nationals for you guys...almost always the upperclassmen. Not sure why, but the freshmen and sophomores have generally been the ones keeping you guys in the team trophy positions.

This trend is concerning.

 

[whejoe]

Any info on Stoll's knee yet?

 

[Omahahawk86]

Not sure where you took this from. I never said he was a world beater. I simply pointed out that he has made noticeable improvement during the season......

I still don't see it. Brands said something about him before the season and this forumn blew up about him. Tough kid yes. I'll still take Carton next year as our guy. He's a great hand fighter with multiple leg attacks. He's just got to get better at finishing. Burak had that problem too. I hope he can turn the corner.

 

[Stanley75]

How they hell are they funding these guys or are they paying their way? Are they handing out academic scholarships like candy?

PSU continues to be gifted with almost no injuries to their top guys also. Name one of their big guns since Cael took over that has been dinged up at nationals. Quinton his last year?

You get hurt when someone is mashing you. PSU guys are mashing opponents. Clark got hurt because guys are able to attack his legs. Getting mashed is much harder on the body than if you are the one mashing. College debt isn't so bad if someone pays it off for you.

 

[redghost1974]

There was this set of twins ... aw nevermind.

Altons did have some injury issues, but I don't think that was their biggest hurdles.

So 2 out of 7 years? Not bad, I'd take that any day.