So games that "should've been won" count if its convenient for you but don't count if not. Got it.
Little Bro being little bro.....
- Thread starter Hawkeyestate81
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I was being nice, bc I highly doubt you beat the better ISU and Maryland and toss up between Rutgers. Hope to god you beat North Texas. None the less congrats at "possibly" winning 4 games in a schedule that iowa won 12. It would take you 4-5 years to win as many games as Iowa won just this year, with any schedule
Actually isu grad this is really simple. A fello isu grad said isu would have won more games based on Sagarin. Then when we look at it yes isu would have won 4 games with Iowa's schedule but then we find that isu should have won 5 games with the schedule they had. Leave it to isu grad to make isu look more pathetic than they already do.
So again does it hurt being OWNED his badly?
Salt please.
You are correct that no one outside of Ames looks at Iowa State as a basketball juggernaut or the "Duke of the Midwest."
However, your last sentence is dubious at best. Prior to the 1990s, you would probably be accurate. Since that time, though, no way.
And yet another thread on an Iowa board about how ISU is obsessed with Iowa staggers into its 12th page. LOL.
In fairness to Kirk, he spotted Iowa State 5 in a row off the bat. Since that time, Ferentz is 8-5 against Iowa State. Not great at all, especially since Iowa State has predominately been bad to mediocre every year.
But, as the saying goes, in rivalry games you throw out statistics and logic. I.e. Texas vs. Oklahoma 2015.
Well, that's the benefit of a free board. As you can clearly see, there are plenty of Iowa State fans who have been very helpful in stretching this thread into 12 pages.
In short, the obsession is mutual, which I have stated time and time again.
This thread shows just how invested isu grads are in the cultural myths they live by.
I think once more Iowa State fans discover the Iowa boards are free to post on we'll see more and more of them hijacking threads on here.
When someone says Iowa had a tougher schedule than Iowa State in football last year they're kind of begging ISU fans to hijack the thread in my opinion.
Some of these guys are like toddlers at snack time LC. You can't possibly give them enough. I've conceded that ISU is one of the worst programs in college football history; and that ISU would've only won 1(!) more game with Iowa's schedule last season and they still argue that we're delusional. Good God folks. That's precisely why these threads go on for 12+ pages.
5?! How so? Does Matt Campbell get 5 free passes in the series to start his career too? He's taken over a team with a pretty depleted roster and little on field momentum just like Kirk did.
Yet according to Sagarin isu should have won 5 games with the schedule they did have not the 4 you are arguing with for the Iowa schedule. Will isu grad ever give up the he SOS myth? No chance in hell.
That alone is worth the entertainment value isu grads provide us on this site. Don't stop now though, I got my Coke so the fun is just beginning.
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Still waiting for the isu coach that has a winning record against KF. Not some bogus spin that isu coaches have a higher winning % against KF than the rest of their schedule.
All that shows is how the isu coaches treated the Iowa game as their Super Bowl.
More please.
I was being facetious with the spotting him 5 comment. However, there is no way you can compare the team Campbell is inheriting to what Ferentz was handed in 1999. No way. Not even close.
Doubtful they would've beaten Maryland and Illinois State and tossup with Rutgers but... they "should've beaten" Toledo and TTech (I think you meant K-State actually). You're losing me bud.
God this is so much fun. So now you're going to argue that ISU (a pathetic program who had to fire its mediocre coach) has a MUCH better team in 2016 than Iowa (a proud program who's legendary coach was retiring) had in 1999. Wow.
I'm sure someone could provide a link to multiple computer rankings about SOS to quickly end this debate. Common sense, though, at least IMHO, would point almost unequivocally to Iowa State having a tougher conference schedule.
However, there is no way to say for certain Iowa State would or would not have won more or less games swapping schedules with Iowa. That's largely due to the fact a lot of Iowa State's issues last season had more to do with Iowa State than it did their opponent. I would cite Oklahoma State and Kansas State as prime examples.
One of the biggest misconceptions people have is that Iowa State was a bad team last season. The results were bad, no question, but there was not a huge gap in talent between Iowa State and a fair amount of their opponents (including Iowa). The issue was, for whatever reason(s), Iowa State developed a culture of losing under Paul Rhoads, and that culture had a penchant for showing up when games were on the line last season. In short, Iowa State found ways to lose games against quality opponents (like Oklahoma State) as well as mediocre opponents (like Toledo and Kansas State), so switching schedules with Iowa would have been irrelevant. Again, IMHO.
The only part I disagree with here is saying switching scheduled with Iowa would have been irrelevant because they developed a losing culture under Rhoads. While they did develop that culture they would be playing more teams in the same boat which probably would have led to more opportunities to get wins. I think at worst ISU would have won 4 games with Iowa's schedule (North Texas, Illinois State and two of the three between Purdue, Maryland and Rutgers). I mean right there is 5 teams ISU was better than and then there were still opportunities against other teams like Minnesota, Illinois and Indiana who would have been very winnable games.
A few thoughts to ponder + reflect upon:
1) It is obvious Iowa has a better football program than ISU. No question about it. And that's fine. No sense in debating it further.
2) SOS debate is stupid.
3) How ISU would do with Iowa's schedule in the Big 10 is a decent idea to toss around, but no one truly knows. I guess if you narrow it down, a round robin schedule will always be tougher than "avoiding" certain schools. How ISU would do vs select Big 10 schools (and vice versa) is a dumb and pointless debate
3) i think Iowa was forrunate (to their credit) by resurrecting their program when they did. All credit goes to Fry and his staff for that. Iowa came back to prominence when Cable TV exploded. That really helped build their program in the early 80's and beyond. ISU was really good in the early to mid 70's under Sherill and Bruce, with next to none national TV exposure. Sadly , they couldnt keep either coach and the rest os history. If the timing was different in both cases, who knows? ISU losing Bruce to Ohio State just killed them.
That last point is giving all due credit to Iowa for investing in their FB program. I wish ISU had done the same.
4) Finally, I think a large majority of ISU fans are cautiously optimistic about Campbell. We dont have any delusions of grandeur. Instead, I think ISU will be happy witn steady improvement, and hopefully get to a point where a Bowl Game is possible. This is not a knock on Iowa, but if it can be done in IC, it can be done in Ames. Good facilities and a strong commitment to the program.
Time will tell.
1) It is obvious Iowa has a better football program than ISU. No question about it. And that's fine. No sense in debating it further.
2) SOS debate is stupid.
3) How ISU would do with Iowa's schedule in the Big 10 is a decent idea to toss around, but no one truly knows. I guess if you narrow it down, a round robin schedule will always be tougher than "avoiding" certain schools. How ISU would do vs select Big 10 schools (and vice versa) is a dumb and pointless debate
3) i think Iowa was forrunate (to their credit) by resurrecting their program when they did. All credit goes to Fry and his staff for that. Iowa came back to prominence when Cable TV exploded. That really helped build their program in the early 80's and beyond. ISU was really good in the early to mid 70's under Sherill and Bruce, with next to none national TV exposure. Sadly , they couldnt keep either coach and the rest os history. If the timing was different in both cases, who knows? ISU losing Bruce to Ohio State just killed them.
That last point is giving all due credit to Iowa for investing in their FB program. I wish ISU had done the same.
4) Finally, I think a large majority of ISU fans are cautiously optimistic about Campbell. We dont have any delusions of grandeur. Instead, I think ISU will be happy witn steady improvement, and hopefully get to a point where a Bowl Game is possible. This is not a knock on Iowa, but if it can be done in IC, it can be done in Ames. Good facilities and a strong commitment to the program.
Time will tell.
You make some good points there. However If you are actually a Hawkeye fan who said that Iowa State wasn't a bad team during the season then you're one of the first ones I've met. Pretty easy to say now. Its becoming quite clear that Rhoads' recruiting was lacking over the past few years and his coaching staff was a mess.
One understated factor that goes along with playing elite teams is the effect it has on a team's psyche. I remember a few decent ISU teams who ran in to a great Oklahoma or Texas team and had their confidence (and many of their bodies) shattered. They were never the same after that. I definitely believe that a team which avoids the "big boys" benefits from that standpoint.
There is Sagarin boy. According to Sagarin, isu should have won 5 games with the schedule they had or 4 if they had Iowa's.
More SOS myths please.
According to Sagarin ISU was only better than Kansas and UNI on their schedule. They "upset" Texas to get their third win. According to Sagarin ISU was better than Indiana, Illinois, Illinois State, Maryland, Purdue and North Texas. So if you want to go that route ISU should have been 2-10 with their own schedule and 6-6 with Iowa's.
http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm
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Not completely irrelevant, agreed. I'm just saying it's hard to predict how Iowa State would have performed given the radical inconsistencies they had in games all season.
Yes, I've been consistent in saying that I don't believe there was a huge discrepancy in talent between Iowa State and Iowa this last season. In fact, there have been only a few years under Ferentz in which I thought Iowa had significantly better overall team talent than Iowa State. Although far from perfect, it speaks volumes for how good of a coach Ferentz is, particularly with player development.
Look at the beginning of the season. isu would have lost to IU, Illinois, Illinois State Maryland and Purdue. Iowa didn't play Rutgers so not sure why you would include them.
No I understand. My cousin was on those early teams. Ferentz and (more importantly) Doyle got it turned around pretty quickly.
I know how harsh the culture shift was at the time. Not sure the cupboard was much more bare. Much like this upcoming Iowa State team there weren't more than a few serviceable offensive linemen.
This for the most part is probably a good way to wrap things up with this thread
Iowa state had some very very good skill position guys, especially at WR. They also had some defenders that could and would fly around especially for the Iowa game. I know no matter the year and no matter the talent discrepancy not to take the game lightly. That is why I in fact hate ISU with a passion, because you can't honestly tell me that on most years there are two teams that are seen on the field. The team that plays Iowa and then the rest of the 11 games-two completely different teams (although there are some games like OSU a few years back sprinkled in there)
If you think most years ISU plays their best game of the season in the Iowa game you don't watch ISU play very often.
Most the years they beat Iowa it sure seemed that way. I would say that was definitely the case in 2005, 2007, 2011, and 2014.
2011 they blew out a ranked Texas Tech team on the road and beat #2 Oklahoma State. 2005 Iowa State was better than Iowa. 2007 Iowa wasn't very good that year. I'll give you 2014. Far from most years though
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