Because that's how it is being sold by those who don't want to admit there are any positives economically. Again, the GOP are master marketers and the Democrats are terrible at selling their positions.
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- Thread starter Chishawk1425
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Disagree...R's suck at messaging.
I think "it could be worse" is a tough sell. Those 8+ % inflation rates left a mark....and they aren't erased by 4% inflation and high interest rates.
I think overall you're argument is correct but the reality is it's a very tough sell...and not due to Republican messaging.
This is all true to that is not the perception at all and most people don't feel like things have gone well. I have talked to many regular people, young and old in the past few months, and all are done with this admin. I talked to a bunch of U of I students and kids in their 20's and they acted like I was insane when I said Biden would win in 2024. They think he is embarrassing and nobody that old should be President. Talk to almost anyone and they are facing mounting debt, wages not keeping up with inflation, not able to retire when they wanted to, etc. The perception is the past 3 years have been really rough on people. I do still think Biden wins, but it will be close I think. His approval ratings on the economy are bad and his VP is awful, her approval ratings are in the 20's I believe. I know nobody that has interest in her ever being president, which is extremely likely if he wins another term.
If the GOP is so bad at marketing, please explain how an amoral, twice impeached, raging narcissist, facing 91 felony indictments is the most popular and leader of their party. Any one of those should have sunk him.
You attribute that to marketing?
I point to the GOP way underperforming in the 2022 mid terms. Historically so....
If the "GOP" was actually good at marketing they'd keep on point with their messaging and political choices as a party.
The shit show house drama shows they are far from that....D's are much more uniform in their messaging than R's...IMO.
Please tell me you realize costs have gone up our entire lives. Always rising costs. Then, tell me what the Republicans will do to fix all the things you try to blame the Democrats for, like inflation. You seem to think Biden is to blame so I'd love to know what the leading candidate for President in the Republican Party will do to satisfy you.
Keep in mind that around HALF of rising costs are caused by corporations rising prices on goods under the guise of inflation.
What? Republicans are INCREDIBLE at their messaging. We see it every single day on this board. I hear it when we go have dinner with my wife's family. They sell lies REALLY well.
It doesn’t help that Americans 40 and under especially are largely spoiled economically. You really have to go all the way back to the 80s to find a time where we weren’t seeing good quarter after good quarter, low inflation, low unemployment, etc.
Things could be worse isn’t a great message sure, but overall things are a lot better than it is being portrayed. Republicans would have us think we’re in the throes of another Great Depression.
Most folks are really ignorant as to how the economy works and what drives it! Lots of knee-jerk reactions and no real critical thinking...”fear” sells like hell with most folks.
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Yes and it's not Joe's fault like you seem to imply.
Left such a mark that GDP is growing at 4.9% with strong consumer spending.
It's incredible how shallow your thinking has become. The messaging you say "sucks" is apparently working very well on you.
WTF? They are doing EXACTLY that. And the party is lapping it up.
To be fair, Americans have an unfortunate tendency to always blame POTUS when things aren’t super-awesome. Whether or not that’s an accurate depiction is something else.
Then thats what crazy. We just pulled a 5% GDP for the 3rd quarter. That is exceptional. Joe should be getting gold stars. The issue is spending is high, interest rates are high, and the fed keeps doing ET and selling bonds off the balance sheet keeping interest rates higher than otherwise. The tax cuts should have never occurred and some are rolling off, but the corporate rates need to go back up, maybe not all the way but a good chunk to make this feasible.
I totally understand this which is another reason I rip our populace. The concept of "Maybe the Republicans will do better." is beyond ridiculous but we can't shake that out of their voters' beliefs.
A couple on page 80. You have no self-awareness. Unless I am being soooooo sensitive that I just make up your both sides crap, and that Biden really isn't very good at his job, in your brain.
Where did I claim that?
I said I thought polling on the economy was effected by high interest rates for mortagages/auto/credit cards and the residue from last years high inflation....and continuing 4% inflation.
I think those shape the negative perception of the economy in polling.
Just one example of how the Rs are historically much better about marketing / branding to the masses on specific topics. Now, in the last year has the GOP shown they are a total shitshow? Yes, but historically, it is universally accepted that Rs > Ds in this area.
Uniform is not the same as effective.
"...and interest rates and why Joes polling on the economy is so bad."
So either the economy is doing bad or good. So far the economy has had GDP's with 2 handles the first 2 quarters and now 1 with a 5. So this comes down to either we are looking beyond current economic data, or we are having massive messaging to suggest why the economy is so bad. Either it was a stupid comment by you or it exactly proves what Tom is saying that republicans are trying to message and nitpick on Joe.
I would have agreed with you 8 years ago but the R's have been disjointed and don't have anything near a united message anymore.
I think the D's have made up ground and passed them in that regard.
2022 midterm the D's were pretty consistent in their messaging (and effective).
On the particular subject of the economy...I don't think it's messaging. It's that the negative factors (interest rates/inflation) have direct impact on folks. GDP is basically just a number that doesn't effect folks much. A couple pts on their mortgage rate sure as hell does.
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Bins way to ignore my previous post. Do you agree with my standpoint or not?
My explanation for Joes bad polling numbers on the economy are high interest rates for mortgages/homes/credit cards and the hangover from last years high inflation. That's not me saying the economy is "bad" but what I see as the driver for the bad polling on the subject.
You and Tom's explanation is Republican attacks and messaging. I think that's pretty simplistic as the opposition party always bitches about the economy.
I think the things I listed impact folks directly....unlike a good GDP number so the polling isn't shocking. If folks pocketbooks are being effected it effects how they view the economy.
Overall I think the economy is doing suprisingly well all things considered.
I do have a concern that the deficit jumped for 2023 and Joe passed Trump's 4 year total in 3 years...but the bill on that will come due down the road and the political impact will be negligible in 2024.
The current interest rates are not high in historical terms. The fact that we have had generational low interest rates for the last decade and that is unwinding is not a sign the economy is poor. If individuals, primarily the opposition part want to try to attack oil prices or say that the economy is poor, it is not accurate. So the question is why??? Where is this coming from. Nearly 90% of homeowners have loans locked in at significantly lower rates, and an article came out in August stating how some owners feel locked into their house due to the low interest on their loans. thus the majority of people are not being effected by the higher interest rates. Home prices are up primarily due to the lack of supply. Nothing that Joe has done, but a lack of new building by Home producers. This is still cause and effect relationship from the 2008 crises. Again this has nothing really to do with the economy. It is more an offshoot. He is being punished for the interest rates, and partially his doing of adding additional unneeded stimulus in his first year. But you remove that and we are likely still in the same predicament. Maybe not quite as bad but pretty close.
That story is behind a paywall, but the sum of the parts is Biden has a heck of an economy. Why individuals are ignorant who knows. You continue to push the polling numbers, even though it isn't an accurate portrayal of what is occurring. So yes I do think Republicans and Fox has been very effective at hammering, interest rates, high oil prices and anything else they feel they can hammer that has shown up in the polling numbers. Here is 1 snippet, only 35% think Joe is doing a good job keeping the unemployment numbers low. They are at historic lows, not just good, not even great, generationally low and he only gets a 35% rating. That is just dumb.
As to the deficit, yes when you are handed less % tax money's coming in by the previous administration and you have rising interest rates and spending has not declined, you will end up growing a deficit faster than the previous administration, Just like Trumps was higher than each of the 4 years of Obama and Obama's was higher that Bush.
So in a nutshell, you do have lower income individuals feeling the cost of living has risen more than their wages, although wages are actually starting to grow faster than inflation, and the lower income, for a stretch in late 2020 were getting wages much higher. Look I think Joe is old and someone else should run for the democrats. However that isn't the argument. In actuality he is doing a damn fine job, but there is only so much a president can really do regarding the economy. Primarily not try to F it up. So far so good on that. I don't think the fed can induce a soft landing, but as long as unemployment stays low it should be awfully shallow.
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Why do you think Joes polling on the economy is bad?
‘Cause people have very little idea on why and how an economy works...American’s knowledge about finances and economies is really abysmal! But in an economy that screams “Me! Me! Me!” And after 4 years of a President that cared only about himself, what can you realistically expect?
65% of Democrats approve of Bidens handling of the economy - which means republicans are virtually 0 republicans are voting that he has done good on the economy. We are becoming so divided. Of democrats, 77% of those over 45 approve of how Biden is handling the economy, while only 52% of democrats under 45 approve of the way he is handling it. So yes since you asked I think the republican media is poisoning the well and doing a damn fine job at it.
Biden's approval rating on the economy stagnates despite slowing inflation, AP-NORC poll shows
President Joe Biden has devoted the past several weeks to talking up the positive impacts of his policies — but his efforts have yet to meaningfully register with the public.
apnews.com
