Mark Hall is NOT your normal HS wrestler. Marinelli getting beat by him up a weight does not prove anything about him being ready or not being ready to compete for us next year. You can spin your comment anyway you want, but it seemed pretty obvious what you were implying.
Marinelli-Hall tonight
- Thread starter Jackhawk87
- Start date
the left foot stall lock and the push forward = real hard to teach the new psu wrestlers
Evidently he hasn't seen Nickal close up because he's a big 174# who will probably wrestle at 184# next year.
Exactly. To conclude that a wrestler of Marinelli's caliber isn't "ready for D1" based on a loss to a superhuman phenom, essentially wrestling up a weight, is nothing short of absurd.
Happel lateral drop would have been 6pt move in college (or pin) he kept his toe nicely in bounds.
It's hard for me to look at these results and come up with the conclusion that "it proves nothing". Something was proved! I want to look at the bright side of the match as well, but I am struggling with that right now. I am hoping that Alex is a sponge and time in the room will grow him in bunches. Stuff like this can happen to any great wrestler, but I sure don't want to see any kind of pattern start here.
Well it may mean something but what it means is yet to be known. I think Jimmy Gubilon pounded Cory Clark a few times in these type of all star meets. Grambrall also beat .Wright ext,ext. Two things, first off most guys improve so much in the first 6 months of being in the college room. I heard Derringer in an interview saying he hardly got a takedown he first 6 months in the room. This is the norm, it will not be for Mark Hall, he is ready to compete right now, he could probably win the nationals at 174 right now. That being said the leaps the average good kid makes Hall will not make, hes already there. That does not mean he will not improve, he will just do it in a lot less noticeable ways. His will be a little more incremental, where as others something clicks and they make a giant leap . Second thing is what is Hall going to do? Greyshirt? How have those worked out historically? (hint, not good) then redshirt? he would be around 22 first time he steps on the mat. If he goes straight to Psu he should wrestle right away, he is ready. The longer he puts it off the less likely he is to wrestle there,ever. Bottom line hes not going to tech everyone in college, guys will catch up, maybe all the way, maybe not.
Did you watch the match? The score doesn't really reflect the match. AM had 2 (maybe 3) great shots at getting a TD in the first two periods but couldn't convert. MH had one real scoring attempt in the first two periods which he converted at the end of the first period and Alex didn't have time to escape. Through two periods, the score was 2-1. Brain farts and desparation in the third made the score look out of control.
Hall is pretty amazing. Not an unwinnable match for Marinelli though.
Ok. But you surely realize how ridiculous your statement was, right?
You and "The Catman" are taking this loss really hard.
I hate to say it but last night looked like a prototype Iowa recruit vs the prototype Penn St recruit. What I mean by that Iowa with the more in your face wrestler, the push, push, shove, brutish type versus the more relaxed, fluid, technical type that Cael likes to recruit.
Wasn't there a match that went something like this a few years ago between Jimmy Guilibon & Cory Clark? How have things gone since then?
Mark Hall dominated Jason Nolf just last summer. So I guess by some logic Nolf isn't ready for D1 either. Hall is a phenomenal talent that if he decides to wrestle next year will be right in the thick of things for a national championship.
Also, that fact that Alex was on his legs multiple times doesn't really show anything. That is how Hall wrestles. He is so phenomenal with his counter ability he can get out of situations that normal wrestlers couldn't. That means he can be a little lax at protecting his legs sometimes. That is just his style.
I still think Alex has the talent to be able to start for us at 165 next year, but that will really be determined by how he looks in the room and at open tournaments.
Also, that fact that Alex was on his legs multiple times doesn't really show anything. That is how Hall wrestles. He is so phenomenal with his counter ability he can get out of situations that normal wrestlers couldn't. That means he can be a little lax at protecting his legs sometimes. That is just his style.
I still think Alex has the talent to be able to start for us at 165 next year, but that will really be determined by how he looks in the room and at open tournaments.
Don't be so negative. A few things:
1) This is only one match. Their last match (albeit freestyle) was very close.
2) Guys this was a one point match in the second period! Hall just caught Marinelli in a few moves in the third. Can happen to anyone.
3) Marinelli was in deep several times. It's not like he lacks firepower. He just couldn't finish. TnT should be able to straighten that out.
4) Remember how Gambrall owned Quentin Wright in their HS match? Wright turned it around. Of course, Gambrall had some late career injury. However, it still doesn't mean that Marinelli can't do the same?
Marinelli is a stud and I do not look forward to wrestling against him in he future. Kid is at least an All American imo. Great get!
First off, as wrestlers, we should ALL know how hard it is to look at a guy and be sure where his weight is. Still, he looks lanky and lean and I never saw a match of his this year where he looked significantly "bigger" than his opponent. I also never heard a word that he was struggling with weight and he never showed any signs of sluggishness or gassing.
Could he build into 184? Sure. Do I think his size is forcing him to? Nothing I have seen would make me say yes.
Also, I still think Marinelli is a great wrestler and has a great chance to be a 4x AA. I just thought Hall was incredibly impressive and super refined. He hit moves on the #2 lb for lb guy in the country, that are hard for many kids to hit in junior high. Spladle? Switch back into a cradle? And then power cross face with legs?
Those moves aren't an indictment to how good or bad Marinelli is, as I don't think anyone else in high school could do so. They truly show just how good Hall is!
Could he build into 184? Sure. Do I think his size is forcing him to? Nothing I have seen would make me say yes.
Also, I still think Marinelli is a great wrestler and has a great chance to be a 4x AA. I just thought Hall was incredibly impressive and super refined. He hit moves on the #2 lb for lb guy in the country, that are hard for many kids to hit in junior high. Spladle? Switch back into a cradle? And then power cross face with legs?
Those moves aren't an indictment to how good or bad Marinelli is, as I don't think anyone else in high school could do so. They truly show just how good Hall is!
EXACTLY! That's a great example. The negative nellies need to back off the edge. Marinelli is a serious talent!!
If Hall has to cut much wt he will flunk out. Wait and watch. He will be like JB was at nebraska when Metcalf destroyed him because he was sucked down just like Hall will be.
The Bull is a huge recruit, and we're very lucky to have him.
Hall is a once in a decade recruit, and PSU don't need him but got him anyways.
Hall could have gone anywhere and won multiple national titles. He could have gone to Michigan St and still do what's he's about to do at PSU.
When Hall gets to Rec Hall, smug PSU fans are gonna wack each other off over narratives of how their school and Cael produces and develops the most exciting, attack style wrestling in college. T.R. Foley will praise Penn St every Friday on how their wrestles preach technique and finesse based on the styles of their wrestlers.
Well, guess what Foley and PSU, the works already done. Sit back and set your lineup.
Meanwhile, Brands and Co. will continue to do the real developing and work. Marinelli will be ready.
Hall is a once in a decade recruit, and PSU don't need him but got him anyways.
Hall could have gone anywhere and won multiple national titles. He could have gone to Michigan St and still do what's he's about to do at PSU.
When Hall gets to Rec Hall, smug PSU fans are gonna wack each other off over narratives of how their school and Cael produces and develops the most exciting, attack style wrestling in college. T.R. Foley will praise Penn St every Friday on how their wrestles preach technique and finesse based on the styles of their wrestlers.
Well, guess what Foley and PSU, the works already done. Sit back and set your lineup.
Meanwhile, Brands and Co. will continue to do the real developing and work. Marinelli will be ready.
Another example, albeit maybe sort of an apples to oranges, is McDonough vs Oliver. Oliver hammered him (13-4?) in the All-Start meet. McD was a shoulder injury away from 4x AA, 3x Champ vs Oliver 4x AA, 2 time champ.
Marinelli is a freaking beast, and nothing was proved last night, except Hall is a monster in his own right (but we already knew that). Both elite level kids, no doubt. The fact that Alex welcomed the opportunity to take Hall on, and was in a 2-1 match at the start of the 3rd tells me all I need to know about this kid. Probably going to be a 4x National Champ and 3x Hodge Winner!
Marinelli is a freaking beast, and nothing was proved last night, except Hall is a monster in his own right (but we already knew that). Both elite level kids, no doubt. The fact that Alex welcomed the opportunity to take Hall on, and was in a 2-1 match at the start of the 3rd tells me all I need to know about this kid. Probably going to be a 4x National Champ and 3x Hodge Winner!
Wouldn't this be classified as a bad case of penis envy -- jeez maybe if you guys work a little harder on the recruiting front, then you wouldn't have to complain as much.
Yes, we're sooooo jealous of Penn State. Oh god, oh god when will this stop......?
Here's a thought, why don't you GTFO?
I did not watch so your input is valuable to me. Trying to be realistic, at the same time learning as I go. I think I have a pretty high ceiling compared to Chuckles.
He is our best recruit in some time now. Would we be better off having him in the room for 4 years or 5 years?
PSU posters may want to refrain from using the word penis.........it will only ignite more posts about a certain ex football coach........
Whatever is going to give us a team title. If we can win it with him next year, then the answer is 4.
Technically, Oliver was a 4x AA and 3x champ. The ref just refused to credit him with the clear TD on Streibler in the final seconds.Another example, albeit maybe sort of an apples to oranges, is McDonough vs Oliver. Oliver hammered him (13-4?) in the All-Start meet. McD was a shoulder injury away from 4x AA, 3x Champ vs Oliver 4x AA, 2 time champ.
Marinelli is a freaking beast, and nothing was proved last night, except Hall is a monster in his own right (but we already knew that). Both elite level kids, no doubt. The fact that Alex welcomed the opportunity to take Hall on, and was in a 2-1 match at the start of the 3rd tells me all I need to know about this kid. Probably going to be a 4x National Champ and 3x Hodge Winner!
Yeah, you're right....I don't know how in the hell I forgot about that blunder! BUT, they went from Oliver MD McDonough, to (without two freak incidents) being on equal footing at the next level. Granted they weren't at the same weight class, but Marinelli and Hall probably won't either.
It doesn't matter that Hall has moved past Marinelli at this point. What will be important is how he develops in the Iowa room. I'm sure he's greatly disappointed about last night. I'm also confident he is obsessed on improving.
He very well could be a starter next year.
He very well could be a starter next year.
A few things:
LionLover (just nitpicking) the last match they wrestled was folkstyle also, 5-3 dec. at Michigan Fall Grappler Classic 2013-2014 season. But also nice of you for the kind words, I think wrestling fans in general tend to overreact to negative results on matches they had been anticipating and hoping for a positive outcome (regardless of team they support).
Who says if Marinelli goes as a freshman that he can't take a redshirt at a different point in his career?
I'm still super excited about Marinelli, match was close until a mental mistake blew it wide up on the 3rd. Which tends to happen if you make a mistake against an elite talent.
The way things 'APPEAR' to be shaking out, I'd say that Mark Hall fits in better at 174 @ PSU. It sounds like Nolf may not be able to hold 157 for a whole career, and Mark Hall looks to be at least 1-2 seasons away from being in the lineup. Nickal has the frame for 184, and 184 clears out a LOT after next year.
Marinelli looks like a career 165, he's not growing -height-wise- anymore it appears.
LionLover (just nitpicking) the last match they wrestled was folkstyle also, 5-3 dec. at Michigan Fall Grappler Classic 2013-2014 season. But also nice of you for the kind words, I think wrestling fans in general tend to overreact to negative results on matches they had been anticipating and hoping for a positive outcome (regardless of team they support).
Who says if Marinelli goes as a freshman that he can't take a redshirt at a different point in his career?
I'm still super excited about Marinelli, match was close until a mental mistake blew it wide up on the 3rd. Which tends to happen if you make a mistake against an elite talent.
The way things 'APPEAR' to be shaking out, I'd say that Mark Hall fits in better at 174 @ PSU. It sounds like Nolf may not be able to hold 157 for a whole career, and Mark Hall looks to be at least 1-2 seasons away from being in the lineup. Nickal has the frame for 184, and 184 clears out a LOT after next year.
Marinelli looks like a career 165, he's not growing -height-wise- anymore it appears.
I would agree with Lax and Spooner. If AM can put Iowa in the mix for a title next year then bring him out. He could then have the RS if needed due to rebuilding (see Retherford) or if an unfortunate injury happens. The points AM can produce may or may not be as many or more than his PSU counterpart but the difference probably won't be huge and that is where the team needs to pick up the difference. Rocket science....right? I'm sure T&T know what they are getting and have a plan.
As Nolf and Imar. it will great to see some epic battles amongst future studs.
As Nolf and Imar. it will great to see some epic battles amongst future studs.
As good as they could, both ways: Cory is in position to wrestle for the championship against Garrett, and Jimmy is wrestling kids much bigger than he is at 141, and competing better and better at a weight he doesn't belong at, because that's what is best for his team.
Much ado about nothing: Hall is redshirting, and the plan is for Nickal to then move up to 184. Nickal has a frame similar to Q, and the plan is the same one for Bo, as it was for Q: Move up later in his career. When Nickal moves up, Hall will be firmly in place at 174.
Last night was the last time Marinelli will ever wrestle Hall.
Chill.
Last night was the last time Marinelli will ever wrestle Hall.
Chill.
2-1 Hall after two periods. A costly mistake on Marinelli's part. In on Hall"s legs I believe three times. Very glad to have Marinelli as a Hawkeye.
Under current college rules Hall would have been one point shy of a tech fall. The gap between the two is pretty substantial, but that's not to say it can't be closed. I'm sure the Bull will continue working hard to improve and will be a great one to watch in the coming years. He will undoubtedly be a multi-time AA before his time as a Hawk is done. As others mentioned, I can see Hall moving up to the 174 class where Marinelli looks to be a career 165. Time will tell, though..
How scary is it that even after watching this match I think Spencer Lee is still a better p4p wrestler? I can't wait to hear his college plans...
How scary is it that even after watching this match I think Spencer Lee is still a better p4p wrestler? I can't wait to hear his college plans...
Probably my PA wrestling bias speaking but I agree with your Spencer Lee comment. I honestly can't find one flaw in any position with Lee. Of course Hall doesn't have any either unless you count some guys able to get to his legs. But hell, from what I can tell, that really isn't a flaw or is it? It almost seems Hall couldn't care less how deep you get in on him because you're not going to score anyway.
Seems with Cael's teams, very few if any of his guys had to ever suck much weight. If anything, one could actually accuse him of slotting them into a higher weight class leaving them undersized in some people's eyes.
Like Mega Jimmy stalls and wrestles all defense got to the finals of big ten wrestling 16 mins with no TDs and won both on escapes in ride out and he has a good draw again in nationals .(by the way for you Penn State boys if Askern says Mega is a staller has to be a fact right )..Or is he only right when he critizes Hawks?
Similar threads
