Marinelli takes it up a notch
- Thread starter Todd Conner
- Start date
Agree with everything you say in this thread. Also agree with with your comments about White. If I were to guess, Cenzo probably is more concerned about him than the Bull.
NO disrespect intended, but Maybe you guys do not fully understand the sport? Yes Joseph got a couple of takedowns. That inside trip is not a move you will see all the time. By that I mean not as common as Doubles, Singles, Hi C's.
Also you are not taking the pace, pressure, conditioning into account! Joseph could not hold the BULL down. This is a BIG factor! The BULL kept coming and made an adjustment on the position by forcing the Body lock.
He had the position and Joseph went for the trip. Marine should have gotten the Stick!!! In any case, joseph got out and the BULL was still in his face and Joseph had nothing with about a minute to go.
Joseph was the reigning Champ in his house, Marinelli a freshman. It is obvious that The Bull is bigger, stronger, better! Joseph is now the 2x Champion. That still in my book certainly makes him the man to beat.
That being said, my money is on the BULL!!!
You might want to look in the mirror, bud. You said I didn't understand the sport and immediately followed that by saying the inside trip is not a common move (which is technically true). However, you show your own ignorance by bringing it up talking about Joseph whose signature move, the move he is most well known for and hits consistently, is....the inside trip. Also, I understand that Marinelli wrestles a high pace, but Joseph showed no signs of fatigue in that match, even after spending 15-20 sec fighting off his back. Joseph has no history of fading and in fact has a history of storming back to win late after trailing (look at his quarters win against Daniel Lewis). Penn State is consistently one of the best, if not the best, conditioned team in the country. You sound like somebody that exclusively watches the hawkeyes wrestle and doesn't have a clue about anybody else. A lot of posters on BWI sound the same way. You know who also wrestles an insanely high pace? IMAR. Joseph beat him twice and both times was the fresher wrestler. Marinelli cannot rely on a guy like Joseph gassing. He will have to beat him with skill.
Bull put a pretty good ride on him as well for getting worked over. Joseph looked a weight class bigger last year. Bull is closer to a full 165 so he may be able to ride him even more this year.
You ever watch Lewboo or his interview on flo? Not that I’m saying Alex is Lewboo, but he was down a lot and came back to win with his conditioning and strength in the third. That’s what happened to Cenzo. His back was tired and he broke stance.
Are early points more important than the points that win the match? Cenzo got caught in a strength contest and lost, although Alex had the position. Cenzo is a bad ass dude and never ceases to amaze me, but I’ll flip a coin on their next match. AM is not getting freight trained again. It’s going to be a brawl.
Strange I thought Cenzo was a weak link and then he shows himself as almost an immovable object and possible four time winner. Alex for the win in the end. Wouldn’t put a dime on it though. I like them both.
Are early points more important than the points that win the match? Cenzo got caught in a strength contest and lost, although Alex had the position. Cenzo is a bad ass dude and never ceases to amaze me, but I’ll flip a coin on their next match. AM is not getting freight trained again. It’s going to be a brawl.
Strange I thought Cenzo was a weak link and then he shows himself as almost an immovable object and possible four time winner. Alex for the win in the end. Wouldn’t put a dime on it though. I like them both.
How much money? There's still a spot open for this pair.
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/mseil-wwdm-don-new-wager.255364/
This is just not the case at all. He was standing up because he wanted Marinelli to engage with him. He literally did the same thing 5 seconds into the match. Was his back tired then? He wanted Marinelli to engage and he got more than he bargained for, but let's stick to reality here. Marinelli took advantage of some bad wrestling by Joseph, but he can't rely on that to happen consistently. Bull will have to show something he didn't show in the first match to win.
I just don't get the need to justify what happened by many hawk fans. Marinelli could still deserve the win and be the better wrestler that day and still have gotten outwrestled for most of the match. Joseph made bad decisions and Marinelli capitalized. That is the nature of the sport and making good decisions is essential to winning. However, when predicting future results we should also acknowledge that those kind of bad decisions by Joseph are the exception, not the norm. The guy rolls out of bed and wins close, but controlled matches against elite competition. He's a two takedown and hold position kind of guy against top 5 talent. Never in danger, but never separating.
Marinelli will have to figure out how to get past his head/hands, but maybe even more crucially, how to finish against those hips. He didn't show much of that in the first match. That body lock is almost certainly not going to be there in the next. I'm worried that his leg attacks are too straight on/power reliant. The guys that have scored on Joseph have done so by getting to the corner right away and avoiding his hips (Marsteller's underhook throwby in the scuffle finals or Griffith's low single in the quarters). Marsteller's other good attempt didn't get to the corner right away and Joseph crunched him pretty easily. Marsteller is a really powerful guy so that was eye opening. I'm just not sure that Marinelli can get to the corner on him. We'll see what he brings.
So why are you not saying that Cenzo took advantage of some bad wrestling by Alex earlier in the match. There seems to be a double standard here.
So why are you not saying that Cenzo took advantage of some bad wrestling by Alex earlier in the match. There seems to be a double standard here.
If you can't see the difference between hitting a blast double and an inside trip reattack (both moves he hits regularly) and scoring 6 on a body lock after his opponent stood straight up to try to bait him into another inside trip, then I don't know what to tell you. Has Marinelli hit a body lock like that on any other occasion? Is that a consistent, reliable way for him to score points? I think the answer to those questions is no which is why I've said he will have to show something he didn't have in that match to win the next one.
At no point, have I said I don't think Marinelli will be in this match. My point is that the first 6 minutes of that match are probably more predictive of future outcomes between the two than the last minute, and that if Marinelli does not bring something new to table to open up Joseph, the match is not going to go well for him. I guarantee you that Joseph is going to stay in his stance if he's up 5-3 in the third next time and force Marinelli to get to his legs to win (something Marinelli was not close to doing in that match outside off a couple double attempts that were immediately stonewalled by Joseph's hips).
Joseph got tossed one time! If he gets in that position again, regardless of the opponent, he will believe he will come out on top and try the same thing again! He feels very comfortable there.
The Bull is impressive. Lightning fast duck unders. Powerful finishes this year. Best technician in big matches. He doesn't celebrate after a big win, he goes directly to a coach and gets coaching. 165 is brutal this year but he could end up at the top of the podium.
But, but, but didn't you get the memo?
Imart was on the lesser end of the tosses with Cenzo but somehow the Bull is high percentage now.
As much as I love Joseph's skill and fearlessness, and believe he will always beat Marinelli, there was a little something going on in IMar's head during those national finals.
In both seasons, IMar owned Joseph through B1Gs. IMar wasn't the same guy at nationals. I don't remember 2017 as clearly, but I distinctly remember throughout the 2018 tournament thinking IMar wasn't 100% upstairs. I can't put my finger on it, but it was something about his face, manner, and interviews that made me think that.
In both the 2017 and 2018 finals, Joseph did something early in the match to smack IMar in the mouth and put him on notice. His response each time was eerily similar to when Nolf got him in the 2016 dual.
Anyway, my point is that it probably wasn't just coincidence that both trips on IMar were in the national finals. There were plenty of matches outside of that setting where Joseph's offense was completely neutralized. Something at natty's made things different.
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