Mass shooting at Club Q in Colorado Springs

[markfromj]

In a distant future where the debate of LGBTQ+ rights are no longer a divisive topic, then sure your point would be valid. However, that isn't the case here.

Furthermore, I've seen reports be very discriptive:

"The shooting took place at this widely known biker bar, here in South Side San Antonio"
or
"The incident happened at a restaurant known for it's strong ties to the African American community"

And how does this distant future get closer? One way is to stop citing the LGBTQ community as somehow not mainstream, not normal, something to be pointed out. Now, Pride parades and such are fine and to be supported (these being initiated by the LGBTQ community). But the media can help by NOT continuing to report on LGBTQ status when it is not KNOWN to be relevant.

The two cases you cite may or may not be defendable (don't want to engage here), but certainly there can be other cases of reporters reporting irrelevant facts. No one has a monopoly on bad reporting.

 

[Cougar63]

Dude went with enough ammunition to put down the Chinese army, but yeah, he was targeting an ex.

 

[tumorboy]

Lol
You know we see through this charade, right?

It's cool . He's getting enjoyment out of teaching critical thinking skills.

 

[markfromj]

Hey, I left open the possibility you’re just a weird guy.

I'm certainly different on this "let's not look for ways to segregate" topic...I have great passion for this.

But I have very personal involvement with (and am very supportive of) the LGBTQ community.

 

[funksouljon]

Ah, a possible fact. Who is reporting it?

Here, let me google that for you.....

Colorado Springs LGBTQ club shooting suspect faces murder and hate crime charges, court records show | CNN

While police haven't released more details about the motive, the massacre at Club Q -- a longtime safe haven for the local LGBTQ community -- has shattered a sense of security.

www.cnn.com

Colorado Springs Shooting Suspect Faces Murder Charges: Live Updates

The suspect was also being held on hate crimes charges. Five people died in the rampage inside a gay nightclub, and 18 were injured before the gunman was subdued by patrons.

www.nytimes.com

Gay bar shooting suspect faces murder, hate crime charges

Hundreds of people have gathered in a Colorado Springs park to honor five people killed and 17 wounded in a weekend shooting at a gay nightclub.

apnews.com

Everyone is saying it.

 

[markfromj]

Yeah sure, I'm the one trolling. Not the guy who thinks white guys are better at bball than black guys. The NBA is full of honkies isn't it? I forgot you're also the guy who says white guys are better cornerbacks too.

Nope. Never said any of that. Said race says nothing about talent.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Thank you for saying we don't know.

Of course we don't "know", but we [general public] aren't dumb either. I was simply pointing out there is no journalistic integrity lost when reporting the FACT it's a gay bar. It's in the darn description of the place for Pete's sake.

Adult-oriented gay & lesbian nightclub hosting theme nights such as karaoke, drag shows & DJs.

 

[markfromj]

Is have the same issue with that as I do here. While it’s likely for us to assume, the news shouldn’t speculate motive. But, oh well

Thanks for support.

 

[markfromj]

@markfromj
Here's the discription of Club Q per the googles:

Adult-oriented gay & lesbian nightclub hosting theme nights such as karaoke, drag shows & DJs.
Service options: Dine-in · Takeout · Delivery

Address: 3430 N Academy Blvd, Colorado Springs, CO 80917

Hours:
Closed ⋅ Opens 4PM Wed

Phone: (719) 570-1429

So. The nature of the bar is not in question.

 

[tumorboy]

Dude went with enough ammunition to put down the Chinese army, but yeah, he was targeting an ex.

Doubt a noob on the gay scene would start dating at a place like that. I know 🐻 are a fetus. But it appears to be trying to way outkick his coverage.

 

[markfromj]

Most on here would agree. The "other guy", though is upset because the news called it a gay bar. He feels it should have been reported as just a bar. Had the news done that, though, they'd have been accused of trying to hide a well known fact. Probably would have been labeled a conservative news outlet.

So, the media would have been criticized. So what? Be part of the solution.

 

[tumorboy]

When people fight so hard to argue for something so dumb, I assume they’re either Trad or they are truly homophobic and think they’re cleverly hiding it. Or they’re just weird.

Weird dude weird.

 

[funksouljon]

Of course we don't "know", but we [general public] aren't dumb either. I was simply pointing out there is no journalistic integrity lost when reporting the FACT it's a gay bar. It's in the darn description of the place for Pete's sake.

Adult-oriented gay & lesbian nightclub hosting theme nights such as karaoke, drag shows & DJs.

Imagine the bad luck of trying to shoot up a run of the mill bar and you just happen to stumble into 1 of the 2 gay bars in town. Now, suddenly, by accident, you get all these BS hate crimes charges when you just wanted to have regular old murder charges... Dude must be Irish with that kind of luck.

 

[markfromj]

It's cool . He's getting enjoyment out of teaching critical thinking skills.

I'm trying.

 

[BelemNole]

So. The nature of the bar is not in question.

Nor is the fact that he's currently facing hate-crime charges. But you do you boomer.

 

[fivecardstud14]

Nope. Never said any of that. Said race says nothing about talent.

Statistics disagree.

 

[tumorboy]

I'm trying.

Never confuse cancellation with failure. ----- David Letterman.

 

[markfromj]

Here, let me google that for you.....

Colorado Springs LGBTQ club shooting suspect faces murder and hate crime charges, court records show | CNN

While police haven't released more details about the motive, the massacre at Club Q -- a longtime safe haven for the local LGBTQ community -- has shattered a sense of security.

www.cnn.com

Colorado Springs Shooting Suspect Faces Murder Charges: Live Updates

The suspect was also being held on hate crimes charges. Five people died in the rampage inside a gay nightclub, and 18 were injured before the gunman was subdued by patrons.

www.nytimes.com

Gay bar shooting suspect faces murder, hate crime charges

Hundreds of people have gathered in a Colorado Springs park to honor five people killed and 17 wounded in a weekend shooting at a gay nightclub.

apnews.com

Everyone is saying it.

Timing of these things versus the first post (which says "Club Q reported it as a hate crime" but of course they are not qualified to determine hate crime status)?

The WSJ front page article today explicitly said "no motive known" over 24 hours after the shooting.

 

[funksouljon]

Statistics disagree.

Well, as you may or may not know, statistics are in the eye of the beholder. They say what the author wants them to say.

/s

 

[markfromj]

Nor is the fact that he's currently facing hate-crime charges. But you do you boomer.

Well, sure, now. But my beef is with the original reporting.

 

[markfromj]

Statistics disagree.

No, they don't.

What they say is that, if you make me choose a team of 5 from 5 white guys and 5 black guys, knowing nothing but race, I am likely to get the better team with the 5 black guys versus the 5 white guys.

But that is not how anyone recruits. One knows much about each player. It's not a blind pick.

We don't (or didn't) "need more black players, we need more good players". (Okey Ukah was not as good as Aaron White.)

 

[funksouljon]

Timing of these things versus the first post (which says "Club Q reported it as a hate crime" but of course they are not qualified to determine hate crime status)?

The WSJ front page article today explicitly said "no motive known" over 24 hours after the shooting.

I think you are also confusing the reasons that allow a hate (aka bias motivated ) crime to be charged VS what a motive is.

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-121. Bias-motivated crimes

law.justia.com

 

[alaskanseminole]

Imagine the bad luck of trying to shoot up a run of the mill bar and you just happen to stumble into 1 of the 2 gay bars in town. Now, suddenly, by accident, you get all these BS hate crimes charges when you just wanted to have regular old murder charges... Dude must be Irish with that kind of luck.

Yes, I would feel horribly sorry for the a$$hole who donned tactical gear, armed himself to the T, entered a public establishment, and murdered/injured innocent people. I would feel TERRIBLE if I miss judged his otherwise honorable intentions.

(and yes I get what you're saying)

 

[tumorboy]

Well, sure, now. But my beef is with the original reporting.

As soon as his Grandpa's political career got out there the boy was screwed on how things were going to be viewed. The gun men's resume here is catnip for liberal media and click baits. It's like a damn bingo card.

 

[Crimea River]

Considering the state of affairs in Chicago re: CONSTANT gun violence, this is a really clueless take here. 🤯

‘I’m sick of this —-:’ Lightfoot speaks out on Colorado nightclub shooting

CHICAGO — Mayor Lori Lightfoot spoke out against the mass shooting that took place at Colorado Springs LGBTQ+ nightclub Sunday morning. Lightfoot tweeted: “I’m sick of this sh*t. How ma…

wgntv.com

 

[BelemNole]

As soon as his Grandpa's political career got out there the boy was screwed on how things were going to be viewed. The gun men's resume here is catnip for liberal media and click baits. It's like a damn bingo card.

No, as soon as he entered the bar and started killing people. His grandpa just reinforced what people were already thinking.

 

[tumorboy]

No, as soon as he entered the bar and started killing people. His grandpa just reinforced what people were already thinking.

Hope Grandpa is scrubbing his email and social media. The whole zero repercussions for a kidnapping and police stand off smells funny. Pretty safe bet the Fed's or State is going to sideline local DA eventually.

 

[Jan Itor]

Those making excuses and not wanting to fix the problem.

I see people coming out and saying without a doubt, this scumbag did this based on Christian grooming. We don’t know that for sure. Very possible, probably, likely, whatever you want to say.

We have people saying let’s wait to get the details before condemning Christians.

We have people defending Christians as a whole and agreeing there are those that are a subset of Christians that believe people should live as they believe and try to force that on them.

Not seeing making excuses or not wanting to fix the problem. Unless you’re talking about gun control. But I haven’t really seen that discussed much in this thread.

 

[Huey Grey]

I'm asking. If not, you're assuming his dad thought the same way as his dad. Entirely possible.

You said he was raised in a household with that bigotry (paraphrasing).

Well, he did walk into a gay bar and try to kill as many people as possible. It's pretty reasonable to think that he hasn't drifted that far from his grandfather's hatred of the LGBTQ.

 

[herkyhawk00]

Yes, that story counts. And the Penn swimmer story counts. And the Connecticut runners story counts. And the North Carolina volleyball story counts. The narrative is exactly the same in all of these stories. Trans girls are a threat to cis girls and we must protect cis girls from these trans attacks. It's a recycled trope we've seen everytime a majority group wants to denigrate a minority group. It was used against the Jews, used against black people, used against immigrants, and used against many other minority groups.

One can be supportive and accepting of a trans person and still be against them competing with biological females. It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing thing.

 

[Huey Grey]

One can be supportive and accepting of a trans person and still be against them competing with biological females. It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing thing.

We are at the point where trans girls are being blamed for unfair competition even when they aren't on the team. We are to the point where a cis girl knocks another cis girl out, yet somehow trans people are blamed for the concussion and blamed on a national level. Surely you can see that the demonizing of them has gone too far, right?

 

[Huey Grey]

I see people coming out and saying without a doubt, this scumbag did this based on Christian grooming. We don’t know that for sure. Very possible, probably, likely, whatever you want to say.

We have people saying let’s wait to get the details before condemning Christians.

We have people defending Christians as a whole and agreeing there are those that are a subset of Christians that believe people should live as they believe and try to force that on them.

Not seeing making excuses or not wanting to fix the problem. Unless you’re talking about gun control. But I haven’t really seen that discussed much in this thread.

We already have tons of posts and links about the Christian right, including this killers own grandfather, going after the LGBTQ. So I think that condemning at least the Christian right is fair at this point.

 

[markfromj]

I think you are also confusing the reasons that allow a hate (aka bias motivated ) crime to be charged VS what a motive is.

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-121. Bias-motivated crimes

law.justia.com

Not sure the confusion you see here.

From link:

2) A person commits a bias-motivated crime if, with the intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person's actual or perceived…sexual orientation, he or she:

(a) Knowingly causes bodily injury to another person;

“Intent” means motive, right?

 

[alaskanseminole]

So. The nature of the bar is not in question.

markfromj

Why is it a "gay bar". Why not just a "bar".

also markfromj

The nature of the bar is not in question.


Mark has an issue with it being called a Gay Bar instead of a bar and despite the fact the establishment literally categorizes itself as such in order to draw a very specific group of individuals. As others have said, it's a very strange hill you're choosing to die on.

 

[runkpanole]

markfromj

Why is it a "gay bar". Why not just a "bar".

also markfromj

The nature of the bar is not in question.


Mark has an issue with it being called a Gay Bar instead of a bar and despite the fact the establishment literally categorizes itself as such in order to draw a very specific group of individuals. As others have said, it's a very strange hill you're choosing to die on.

Denial for many isn’t just a river in Egypt.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Considering the state of affairs in Chicago re: CONSTANT gun violence, this is a really clueless take here. 🤯

‘I’m sick of this —-:’ Lightfoot speaks out on Colorado nightclub shooting

CHICAGO — Mayor Lori Lightfoot spoke out against the mass shooting that took place at Colorado Springs LGBTQ+ nightclub Sunday morning. Lightfoot tweeted: “I’m sick of this sh*t. How ma…

wgntv.com

She's between a rock and a hard place. Unless we're going to ban semi-automatic handguns, the statistics on gun violence in Chicago aren't going to improve. Or anywhere, for that matter. Nobody wants to talk about that though.

 

[BelemNole]

She's between a rock and a hard place. Unless we're going to ban semi-automatic handguns, the statistics on gun violence in Chicago aren't going to improve. Or anywhere, for that matter.

Drink!

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Drink!

What's your point?

 

[runkpanole]

What's your point?

You were clearly wrong

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

You were clearly wrong

Like usual. I was actually supporting Mayor Lightfoot! Wrong again. 😂