I’m sorry, where are these multiple bad defensive teams with different players?
Matt Mooney- potential grad transfer
- Thread starter Hawki45
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I’m sorry, where are these multiple bad defensive teams with different players?
I am not making this about you, nor am I seeking to be adversarial. My reference to "if you are in the camp" was generic, meaning for all those who think Fran can coach better defense without adding a piece or two to change the team dynamics. I realize he has added new guys in Weiskamp, Frederick, and Connor, but I do not see how that moves the needle defensively given what we witnessed this past season (emphasis on season). Iowa didn't play bad defense early, middle, or late season--it was bad all year.
We just look at this differently and that is fine. I appreciate your insight, but from my perspective, the body of work i.e. not making the NCAA tournament the last 2 years with a marked drop off this past season necessitates more than tinkering on the edges. You generally don't get better kids the longer you wait this time of year and IMO, there is a kid out there who can help this team be more competitive next season and I hope Fran has eyes wide open vs. betting on major development from returning players.
As far as my expectations go, this is 8 years running with Fran not being able to get the team to the next level. While the NCAA tournament is at the top of my list (compete in a 2nd round game), I would settle for showing up in a pre-season tournament or making the Final 4 of the BTT. I do not consider myself someone who expects things to happen immediately. It took me 8 years to get to this point.
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The coaches talked about improving the defense last fall before the season. This talk isn't new. Obviously they failed. Now they're talking about it again. I don't put alot of faith in Fran speak. The conference is going to be weak that gives me more hope than anything Fran says.
I am not making this about you, nor am I seeking to be adversarial. My reference to "if you are in the camp" was generic, meaning for all those who think Fran can coach better defense without adding a piece or two to change the team dynamics. I realize he has added new guys in Weiskamp, Frederick, and Connor, but I do not see how that moves the needle defensively given what we witnessed this past season (emphasis on season). Iowa didn't play bad defense early, middle, or late season--it was bad all year.
We just look at this differently and that is fine. I appreciate your insight, but from my perspective, the body of work i.e. not making the NCAA tournament the last 2 years with a marked drop off this past season necessitates more than tinkering on the edges. You generally don't get better kids the longer you wait this time of year and IMO, there is a kid out there who can help this team be more competitive next season and I hope Fran has eyes wide open vs. betting on major development from returning players.
As far as my expectations go, this is 8 years running with Fran not being able to get the team to the next level. While the NCAA tournament is at the top of my list (compete in a 2nd round game), I would settle for showing up in a pre-season tournament or making the Final 4 of the BTT. I do not consider myself someone who expects things to happen immediately. It took me 8 years to get to this point.
My point is you have decided that next year won't be any better defensively. Period. I think it's wise, especially given that we are less than two months removed from the end of last season to allow Fran and his staff the time to come up with a better or different plan defensively. Fran has said in interviews it's something they have to address and it's something they are working on. The next season doesn't start until November and you have basically already written it off. I'm not saying everything is wine and roses or you can't be skeptical, but I'm willing to see what type of plan he and his staff come up with and also see if it looks different on the court and judge accordingly. You don't seem to be willing to do that when you say, "I don't see how that moves the needle defensively".
And when you open with "if you are in the camp", you are certainly creating an adversarial situation. If you simply state your view, that's fine. No need to do the in your camp part.
As a starter, this team needs to play defense like they really care. Defensive schemes are fine, but unless the guys are playing with a lot more intensity and cohesiveness, the type of defense is not going to make a huge difference. Other than Luka, the other guys act more like they are opening a door for a lady than refusing to let someone get a good shot. They have some physical limitations (most of the interior guys are slow, JBo is small and not that quick, Baer and Nunge had trouble staying with many 3s, where they have been forced to play, Dailey is not strong enough) and that might keep them from being a really good defensive team, but being pretty good is as much mental as physical. Adding a quicker perimeter player with a nasty streak would go a long way toward fixing the physical limitations. The entire team, including the coaches, should be embarrassed and should be going into next year with something to prove.
And then D'Antoni pulled a Beilein.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/...ke-dantoni-chris-paul-houston-rockets-defense
The seeds were planted last year, when D’Antoni brought in Jeff Bzdelik as a defensive coordinator, effectively ceding defensive operations to a person whose job was to serve as the ego to D’Antoni’s id. The bar was low for the job. Houston was below league average in defensive rating last season, but Bzdelik still received plaudits for what he’d done to the defense; at least they weren’t in the bottom third of the league. A defensive structure and mind-set were being installed, but they didn’t have the right pieces, nor did they have a proper leader.
Houston was good because of its offense, but now is probably the best team (at least with Curry out) because it is good on both ends. They added Paul and some quality swing guys who play both ends. I think they were 6th in defense in the NBA, and with their offensive firepower, that make them very hard to beat, especially if you don't also shoot 3s. They switch almost everything to keep their opponents from getting many open threes, and you just can't keep up shooting 2s, unless the Rockets are having an off night shooting.
LOFL at referencing 2012, considering we improved roughly 180 spots the next year.
You are laughing at the notion the 2011/12 Hawkeyes were terrible on defense? By any measure they were really bad. The fact they improved a lot the next season with the addition of Woodbury and Gesell doesn’t seem relevant to how bad they were.
And yes, you asked in what seasons they sucked on defense. Don’t get mad when you are shown the answer.
You referenced a team that was a lot of licks players. The 2014 team also got way better the next year with virtually the same players
You asked which of Frans teams sucked on D. I wasn’t asking for excuses why.
He's satisfied with his roster because it was his own vision and recruiting that created it--that is a man not admitting his mistakes. The fact that he is not able to recruit any difference makers in spring shows his lack of urgency and lack of ability to recruit.The 4-14 in B1G should be an eye opener, but the guy is stubborn.....almost everything he does is contrary to trends of successful teams....no defense, playing 10 guys, uptempo team with a bunch of slow guys, no dribble drive game on offense, playing Big instead of small ball. He's got a 10 year buyout so not really feeling any job pressure. I personally don't see his body of work being particularly outstanding--- his glib response to Dochterman's question was not a good answer. Even Barta says this past season was not satisfactory..whether there is a big leap in performance win Wins next year is just speculation at this point. I see a mediocre team at best next year, a lot of folks think we are on cusp of greatness...we shall see.
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It's not that he was not able to recruit anyone this spring, it's that he chose not to recruit anyone this spring. Offense wasn't the issue for Iowa this past season. All the numbers suggest they did well in that area. You can certainly complain about it, but the numbers were very good when compared to other D1 schools. Defense was the issue. Fran has said they are addressing that area and now we will have to wait and see if his adjustments improve that area. As I've written several times, his best four years were during the period with Woody. The rest of them have kind of looked like this past season, although not as poor.
I don't think Fran is under any pressure, but he's a highly competitive guy who wants to win. It's not like he lacks motivation.
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Iowa's offensive numbers were bloated because they were down 20+ in a lot of games and teams called the dogs off. I do not consider it a moral victory to score a lot of points in lopsided losses. It's like getting a bunch of yards against 2nd and 3rd stringers in football. I like what Fran does on offense and think he maximizes output based on the talent he has. The problem remains giving up big runs with no answer. IMO, without a legit dribble drive threat, this isn't going to change.
Fran "choosing" not to recruit someone this spring is basically asking the fan base to give him a free pass next season for what (in my opinion) will be very similar to this past season in hopes that he can land a class he has yet to land. This is reminiscent of what we heard prior to his big class of Hutton, Williams, Moss, Wagner, Fleming. Why are better teams seeking to add graduate transfers, but Fran is looking to 2019? A graduate transfer does not affect offering in that class.
Iowa's offensive numbers were bloated because they were down 20+ in a lot of games and teams called the dogs off. I do not consider it a moral victory to score a lot of points in lopsided losses. It's like getting a bunch of yards against 2nd and 3rd stringers in football. I like what Fran does on offense and think he maximizes output based on the talent he has. The problem remains giving up big runs with no answer. IMO, without a legit dribble drive threat, this isn't going to change.
Fran "choosing" not to recruit someone this spring is basically asking the fan base to give him a free pass next season for what (in my opinion) will be very similar to this past season in hopes that he can land a class he has yet to land. This is reminiscent of what we heard prior to his big class of Hutton, Williams, Moss, Wagner, Fleming. Why are better teams seeking to add graduate transfers, but Fran is looking to 2019? A graduate transfer does not affect offering in that class.
My issue here is playing too many guys. Define who the best 7 guys are and stick with them for the vast majority of minutes. If the best 7 is lacking then you get a grad transfer to fill in the gap(s). We spent way too many nights playing guys that created a big drop off in playing ability... often were in during the start or progession of big runs for the other teams.
It turns out this insistence on playing everyone made no one happy. That should be a huge lesson for Fran but I don’t think he sees or will admit it.
It turns out this insistence on playing everyone made no one happy. That should be a huge lesson for Fran but I don’t think he sees or will admit it.
Defense is about fundamentals, not whether you play zone, man. The coaches have not been able to coach the fundamentals in the past. I agree, don't foresee progress next year.
If you believe that they were bloated, then you don't understand analytics. And what you wrote isn't factually accurate.
Not recruiting anyone isn't asking for a free pass. It's simply saying he believes in the guys he has now and the two incoming players, plus a full season of Connor McCaffery and that they will make improvements. IMHO, the roster next season will be more balanced. Last year, it was too big heavy. Hopefully that will help solve some of the issues.
Why are other teams adding graduate transfers? You would have to ask them. Those coaches believe they had needs and usually a number of scholarships that are open to fill.
Let's be real here for a moment. If Fran brings in a grad transfer guard he may well lose Moss and Dailey. If he brings in a grad transfer 4, he loses Pemsl and maybe Nunge. I think FRan thinks with the new additions that his team will improve a lot and so do I.
There is a reason why iowa had so many great offensive outburst in the second halves of games.
Having coached as many games/years as I have, I have been in games where we got down big early but we able to look better than we were because the other team put it in cruise control. How many times have you heard a coach say they played better in the second half. There is a reason for it most times.
It’s not like the other teams quit playing but it illustrates the thin margin between success and failure and how losing your edge can let a inferior team back in it.
So let’s not pretend that some of Iowa’s offensive numbers weren’t slightly inflated due to early game blowouts.
Having coached as many games/years as I have, I have been in games where we got down big early but we able to look better than we were because the other team put it in cruise control. How many times have you heard a coach say they played better in the second half. There is a reason for it most times.
It’s not like the other teams quit playing but it illustrates the thin margin between success and failure and how losing your edge can let a inferior team back in it.
So let’s not pretend that some of Iowa’s offensive numbers weren’t slightly inflated due to early game blowouts.
Might want to study analytics and numbers. Teams score more points in the second half, on average. Iowa scored 5.5 more points this past year in the second half of games vs. first half of games. That's basically the average in college basketball.
I’m not relegating my observations to just the second halves of games.
Other teams have scouting reports and their players watch Iowa’s games. When they play us and their in game experiences mirror their scouting reports and film study and they are up big it is just human nature to put on the cruise control.
I don’t think we got most teams best effort after leads ballooned past 12 points. Why anyone would think every team played us 100% is beyond me.
We can all use the eyeball test, that is better than analytics ( in this case). We’ve all seen games where a team is up big and let’s up a bit and the other team hits the f-it button and the results get skewed.
If you actually studied and understood analytics you would realize that your statements are as flawed as your analysis.
All of the additions to next year's team were either already signed or on the team (Connor) prior to the 19 loss season. The lack of a quick guard was shown to be a glaring weakness this past season, but has not been addressed. That weakness is likely to be exploited again by opponents in 2018-2019 season
I would say the more glaring weakness was awful team defense. I hope it isn't just lip service, but Fran has mentioned that multiple times as a priority, including a different weight room program.
So you don't think the difference in the score of the game in the second half can impact how the game is played (by both teams) and can result in the score not being a true representative of the game?
This is actually a valid point for not bringing in a grad transfer. That's assuming it's important to keep Moss, Dailey, and Pemsl.
The issue isn't playing to many guys. Other than Cook and JB (and maybe Garza) there's not a big drop off in playing ability. They're all average or slightly above average. Our problem is we don't have 5 guys that standout so Fran has to figure out who's having a good game. Fran will probably be playing more guys next year with the addition of three new guys.
If you look at the best teams in college basketball they are constantly trying to upgrade their roster. That is what I don't understand about what Fran is doing. When you have a down year, you would think the number one priority would be to get better by any means possible, grad transfer, juco etc. Now, I do believe Wieskamp is an upgrade but he is still just a freshman shooting guard. There is only so much he can do.
They also had a clear problem with defending other teams guards...what is being done to fix that problem? A problem that largely seemed to be an issue of lateral quickness and not being able to keep their man in front of them. That issue appears to still be there.
I think if Cook is gone, it is pretty much a lock they don't make the NCAA tournament again. With him, they may have a shot depending on the schedule and there is improvement across the board. 9 of their losses were by double digits. 8 of those were big ten teams in a year where the big ten was down and Iowa had an easy Big Ten schedule. Next year the big ten might be better (haven't looked at what the teams will be like) and it is possible they get more difficult big ten schedule.
They also had a clear problem with defending other teams guards...what is being done to fix that problem? A problem that largely seemed to be an issue of lateral quickness and not being able to keep their man in front of them. That issue appears to still be there.
I think if Cook is gone, it is pretty much a lock they don't make the NCAA tournament again. With him, they may have a shot depending on the schedule and there is improvement across the board. 9 of their losses were by double digits. 8 of those were big ten teams in a year where the big ten was down and Iowa had an easy Big Ten schedule. Next year the big ten might be better (haven't looked at what the teams will be like) and it is possible they get more difficult big ten schedule.
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Think about this:
Iowa only had 4 wins against teams with an overall .500 record or better; Drake (17-17), UAB(20-13) Grambling(17-14) and Colorado(17-15).
In other words the majority of their wins came against teams with losing records and the majority of those also had losing conference records.
6 of their wins came against teams ranked 249 or worse on Ken Pom.
They had only 2 top 100 ken pom wins; Northwestern #85 and Wisconsin at #70.
Didn't beat any major conference team with a winning conference record.
They had 10 losses by double digits, 9 of them in conference and the other one to Virginia Tech.
Iowa only had 4 wins against teams with an overall .500 record or better; Drake (17-17), UAB(20-13) Grambling(17-14) and Colorado(17-15).
In other words the majority of their wins came against teams with losing records and the majority of those also had losing conference records.
6 of their wins came against teams ranked 249 or worse on Ken Pom.
They had only 2 top 100 ken pom wins; Northwestern #85 and Wisconsin at #70.
Didn't beat any major conference team with a winning conference record.
They had 10 losses by double digits, 9 of them in conference and the other one to Virginia Tech.
TK, when you say you don't think Fran's under any pressure right now, I'm not sure, but I cannot easily disagree (though I want to!) ... I definitely believe you have a better "finger on the pulse" of the program than I do, so I trust you. Before I learned of the ridiculous buyout, I used to say that another bad year would get Fran fired... maybe that buyout protects him through the end of the 2019/20 season?
The contract extension lines up pretty well with the years his two kids will be enrolled. I'm sure making sure Fran and his boys secured at Iowa during that time is what was going through Gary's head.
I agree that Iowa could surely use a guard with lateral quickness.
I also agree with others that adding Joe W and CJ and essentially adding Connor too will most definitely help in the guard court. I don't think any have the type of lateral speed that folks are looking for, but think their size helps mitigate that, and that they are a bit more athletic than folks think. They will definitely help.
Back to the topic at hand, a quick guard of a minimum talent level to recruit as a grad transfer. How many of those guys are out there? Guys that have the speed folks are looking for. They also must have a minimum amount of talent. And they must be a fit, whatever that entails. How many grad transfers does that leave? A few. Folks are complaining about schools X, Y, and Z getting transfers and Iowa not. Fair complaint, but keep in mind the number of grad transfers left that fit into the criteria. And it also doesn't hurt to look at which schools are getting the transfers that seemingly fit the criteria. They are pretty good schools.
I also agree with others that adding Joe W and CJ and essentially adding Connor too will most definitely help in the guard court. I don't think any have the type of lateral speed that folks are looking for, but think their size helps mitigate that, and that they are a bit more athletic than folks think. They will definitely help.
Back to the topic at hand, a quick guard of a minimum talent level to recruit as a grad transfer. How many of those guys are out there? Guys that have the speed folks are looking for. They also must have a minimum amount of talent. And they must be a fit, whatever that entails. How many grad transfers does that leave? A few. Folks are complaining about schools X, Y, and Z getting transfers and Iowa not. Fair complaint, but keep in mind the number of grad transfers left that fit into the criteria. And it also doesn't hurt to look at which schools are getting the transfers that seemingly fit the criteria. They are pretty good schools.
In order to play well as a team you need to have allot of reps with the same guys to figure out what they like to do.
Playing to many has a big negative impact overall.
Tom, you are closer to the program than any of us. What is the problem with the runs Iowa gives up? That was my earlier point. Games are won or lost based on runs and the ability to answer runs (assuming it's not a mismatch). Every team is going to experience cold shooting nights or stretches when shots don't fall, but this was a recurring theme for this team. When offense matters, this team relied almost exclusively on Bohannon and Cook. Later Garza emerged, but what happens to the offense (in your POV) when it looks like they are totally discombobulated?
It is my opinion that this is where the lack of a dribble drive threat manifests itself. Jok used to get to the line to stop runs. Bohannon and Moss are great FT shooters, but neither looks to drive.
Fair points. The flip side is that that other programs do the same thing. There are no guarantees. You are rolling the dice (again) that Fran, whose plans thus far have not exactly worked out, can assemble a squad (likely minus Cook) that can compete against teams with better athletes at at least 3 maybe 4 positions on the floor.
We have held our breath and waited for Fran's guys to develop and where has that gotten us? A grad transfer brings experience and with the right kid, some toughness; both attributes this team lacks. Personally, I would rather play fewer minutes on a competitive team than major minutes on a 13th place team whose season is over by mid-January. Worst case Moss or Dailey leaves, we get a grad transfer who (potentially) is an upgrade or equal and we get another spot for next year. I don't see losing one of those guys as having an impact given the incoming players.
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