While watching Clark's match (which I do think he can and will beat Tomasello in St. Louis) I was constantly thinking about how McDonoughs career ended, due to the fact that they both battled injuries their senior year. But that ended up leading me to the topic of who would win in a battle between McDonough vs Gilman, and Cory vs Ramos. Personally, I would think McDonough would win a controlled match up against Gilman but am not too sure about Clark and Ramos. What are your guy's thoughts?
McD and Ramos vs. Clark and Gilman
- Thread starter WDuck5217
- Start date
Whew. Tough call. I'd say toss-ups on both. McD won two titles and was in the finals three times but never had an undefeated season like Gilman may have this year. Ramos was always tough and solid but also had a little luck on his side to win his title.
McD and Ramos.
Without injury and Steiber, they are probably both 3 timers.
Without injury and Steiber, they are probably both 3 timers.
I think they would be good matches all around but I think Ramos over Clark and I honestly can't say one way or another with McD or Gilman. I am mentally going back and forth as I type this.too close for me to call
I think mcd would kill Gilman on top. Mcd all the way.
Healthy Clark v. Healthy ramos...hmmm...I'll say clark.
Healthy Clark v. Healthy ramos...hmmm...I'll say clark.
Got to be honest with those that don't know who would win between Gilman and McD. McD beat Nico with a bum shoulder. Gilman didn't look too hot against them. I know that's that the end all be all, but I think Gilman's offense is too limited and his defense not good enough for the king of the full extension/suck back single.
McD
B1Gs: 2-1-1-2
NCAAs: 1-2-1-R12
NCAA Points scored: 23.5-20-26-3 = 72.5 team points scored
Ramos
B1Gs: 3-2-2-1
NCAAs: R12-3-2-1
NCAA Points scored: 3.5-16-20-20 = 59.5 team points scored
Gilman
B1Gs: x-2-3-1
NCAAs: x-4-2-?
NCAA Points scored: x-15.5-21.5-? = 37 team points scored (with one NCAA tourny remaining)
Clark
B1Gs: 4-3-1-2
NCAAs: 5-2-2-?
NCAA Points scored: 11.5-17-17-? = 45.5 team points scored (with one NCAA tourny remaining)
B1Gs: 2-1-1-2
NCAAs: 1-2-1-R12
NCAA Points scored: 23.5-20-26-3 = 72.5 team points scored
Ramos
B1Gs: 3-2-2-1
NCAAs: R12-3-2-1
NCAA Points scored: 3.5-16-20-20 = 59.5 team points scored
Gilman
B1Gs: x-2-3-1
NCAAs: x-4-2-?
NCAA Points scored: x-15.5-21.5-? = 37 team points scored (with one NCAA tourny remaining)
Clark
B1Gs: 4-3-1-2
NCAAs: 5-2-2-?
NCAA Points scored: 11.5-17-17-? = 45.5 team points scored (with one NCAA tourny remaining)
A lot more fun? You must not have been there when Ramos blew the roof off CHA twice.
I get that you might think he's a better wrestler ( I don't), or you may like his style better, but a lot more fun? No.
Did you miss his Jr. And Sr. Years where he took one shot. Got one takedown. Got one escape. The end.
He had a couple of fun matches. Oliver comes to mind, but if you thought he was exciting his last two years your definition of exciting might be tainted by black and gold colored glasses.
Actually, I'd agree that Clark is more fun to watch -- in terms of his style. He has a lot more offense than Tony ever had. Tony was a takedown guy. Not much of a rider. Also, his offense from his feet was based on quickness and strength -- not really technique. Cory's more of a rider, but he's still pretty crafty on his feet and uses his 2-on-1 as well as a nice low single and other occasional leg attacks. And on top, he's a hammer, with a varied arsenal.
No, Cory doesn't flex after big wins or taunt his opponents. But I never cared for that, anyway. Yes, Tony had the big upset over Oliver and a couple of dramatic pins in Carver, but I'd much rather watch Cory's style -- and I much prefer his understated, humble manner.
McDonough was a bad shoulder and one leg away from being a 4 Time NCAA Champion, and people are debating if he'd beat Thomas Gilman? LOL!
As for Clark and Ramos, I don't know, flip a coin.
As for Clark and Ramos, I don't know, flip a coin.
I say flip the weights, I'd like to see Cory and Matt go at it.
McD and Clark, no question... I agree that the funnest, most intriguing match up would be McD vs Clark.
Gilman...and we might see this one coming up in Seniors. I like Gilman only in that he has more offense. If Gilman clams up like he does in matches against top guys and gets risk adverse, then Ramos gets him. Gilman should actually be a better freestyler because it suits him more. Doesn't have to ride and is somewhat decent at Par Terre.
Azchief, do you think McDonough still has a shot to represent the USA at 57 kg? Or do you think his freestyle career is pretty much over? Also, I hear a lot of talk about Gilman wrestling on the senior level, but why not anything on Clark? Has he said something about not wrestling freestyle or do people just think his style isnt a freestyle wrestlers?
Don't mean to step on Chief's toes, but I don't see McD ever going back down to 57 kg. If anything, I think he may compete at 61 kg in non-Olympic competition.
What he said. On Gilman and Clark, I think it's just that Gilman has had recent world level success and has stated his intentions. Clark very well could as well.
I would say McD and Clark also with it not being that close and really McD is a pretty easy choice over the other 3. He was an injury and bad seeding from being a 4 time champ.
McDonough is back on the mat, but won't be competing any time soon from what I have heard. He brings a lot to the table on and off the mat. Recruits love him and he is an awesome workout partner.
Give me McD over everyone and if vs Gilman it would be close and high scoring like the Andrew Long matches 10-8 type as Gilman offense is the best of the 4 followed by Ramos. Gilman would get his TD's vs McD but McD would ride, reverse, control and own the majority of the positions. Lets not forget McD was a Tall 125 too so that negates some of Gilmans length advantage vs guys now.
After that lizak Match does anyone else think Robbles would have just thrown him around worse than McD?
I take Ramos over Clark in a low scoring match say 4-3 or 3-2. I just cant see Cory getting a TD on Ramos if Ramos goes into defense counter mode like he did his SR yr at NCAA's. Clarks riding wouldn't factor. IMO if he got out from under Stieber then Clark wouldn't hold him down either. I also don't see a Clark reversal because Ramos wouldn't attempt to ride him that hard and would cut him because of the danger.
As for another post I think Ramos was more fun to watch than Clark. Ramos Jr was just like Gilman now. Just a machine. It wasn't until SR year that Ramos turned more conservative vs guys like Graff because he knew they couldn't beat him if he didn't make his own mistake.
Id rank the 4 in order. McD > Ramos > Clark > Gilman.
For fun IMO based just on college it will be Lee>McD>Ramos>Clark> Gilman>Slaton> Dennis> Teasdale
Freestyle Lee>Dennis>Ramos>Gilman
After that lizak Match does anyone else think Robbles would have just thrown him around worse than McD?
I take Ramos over Clark in a low scoring match say 4-3 or 3-2. I just cant see Cory getting a TD on Ramos if Ramos goes into defense counter mode like he did his SR yr at NCAA's. Clarks riding wouldn't factor. IMO if he got out from under Stieber then Clark wouldn't hold him down either. I also don't see a Clark reversal because Ramos wouldn't attempt to ride him that hard and would cut him because of the danger.
As for another post I think Ramos was more fun to watch than Clark. Ramos Jr was just like Gilman now. Just a machine. It wasn't until SR year that Ramos turned more conservative vs guys like Graff because he knew they couldn't beat him if he didn't make his own mistake.
Id rank the 4 in order. McD > Ramos > Clark > Gilman.
For fun IMO based just on college it will be Lee>McD>Ramos>Clark> Gilman>Slaton> Dennis> Teasdale
Freestyle Lee>Dennis>Ramos>Gilman
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McD, Clark, Ramos, Gilman.
I think McD beats Gilman 6-2 with late first period take down and 1:30 RT.
Clark and Ramos would have an epic battle. With Clark being healthy this match would unequivocally be settled from the neutral position with some great scrambles. Best out of ten matches, I take CC winning 6.
I think McD beats Gilman 6-2 with late first period take down and 1:30 RT.
Clark and Ramos would have an epic battle. With Clark being healthy this match would unequivocally be settled from the neutral position with some great scrambles. Best out of ten matches, I take CC winning 6.
if iawrestle wants to do a ppv mcd,tram,gman,cc, lee,and dd i would pay to watch.
Ramos was an offensive machine his junior year. He did stop shooting his senior year.
I got one for anybody. RS Fr Kem Dawg vs RS Fr DSJ? I gotta go with DSJ even though Kem will likely place higher. Much tougher 157 pound class then.
since you said anybody i have to go with kem. i really want to see your bull next year vs. cenzo
I have to say, I was actually thinking about McD vs Gilman this weekend as McD was walking past me in Bloomington. McD would be tough to score on for Gilman, he extended so quick on defense, this would limit Gilman's biggest strength and with his riding ability, he would take advantage of Gilman's biggest weakness. So McD for sure at 125. Clark being a much more technical wrestler should beat Ramos. Which leaves us with McD vs Clark. I'd like to see how McD handles with 2 on 1's.
McD is among my all time fav hawks, so an easy call for me to make. As for Kem vs. DSJ, If Kem progresses like we all expect, I got Kem all day.
McD is among my all time fav hawks, so an easy call for me to make. As for Kem vs. DSJ, If Kem progresses like we all expect, I got Kem all day.
I think Kemerer is more talented than DSJ, but DSJ was a little bit meaner in positions than Kemerer. I think DSJ's attitude and grit makes it a 50/50 tossup. DSJ could not get to the legs as freely as Kemerer does, but he could scramble every bit as well as Kemerer. I think Kemerer will end up having the better career, placement-wise than DSJ due to his lapse his SR year at NCAAs. But at this point I'd have to say they're dead even.
DSJ was nails - he can't be measured easily. He beat Imar (a 4 x timer perhaps) and Dieringer (3 x timer) and Derek is the only wrestler I've seen that Dake couldn't keep on the mat. He was just so damn hard to wrestle against.
