Mike Daniels on Gottlieb

[cidhawkeye]

What a great listen
'Did you develop your own workouts?'
'My own touch to it, I learned from all the great weight sensi Coach Doyle......'
'Coach Doyle you mentioned was legendary strength coach Chris Doyle at Iowa, in you experience, just you what is your reaction to what lead to his career downfall?'
"Exactly what you said, I went from a 2 star 207 pound running back to a 290 pound All B1G, draftable, defensive tackle, stud. That perfectly sums up my experience at Iowa"

 

[Pawkhawk1]

Huh.
So Mike didn't mind tying his shoes, pulling up his pants, and listening to country music and classic rock during workouts with Doyle?
Awesome.
(and he worked his ass off to be where he is)

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Huh.
So Mike didn't mind tying his shoes, pulling up his pants, and listening to country music and classic rock during workouts with Doyle?
Awesome.
(and he worked his ass off to be where he is)

I tend to agree with this, although if Doyle’s ghetto comments were actually said, it’s way out of line. And his firing isn’t surprising.

 

[not_mantiteo]

I tend to agree with this, although if Doyle’s ghetto comments were actually said, it’s way out of line. And his firing isn’t surprising.

I agree with you there. There's a fine line between a hard ass and then going into racial comments. But I'm sure this thread will be full of guys telling us what black players should think and feel instead of listening to them.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

I agree with you there. There's a fine line between a hard ass and then going into racial comments. But I'm sure this thread will be full of guys telling us what black players should think and feel instead of listening to them.

How about guys correcting you on shit that wasn't actually said?

"We're going back and forth. I never said anything racial but it was definitely a verbal altercation, we got face-to-face. That's when he said, 'F--- you, I'll send your ass back to Glenville.'

Little bit different than "GHETTO", but whatever.

 

[hawkfeever]

Doyle just needs to set up his own sports performance clinic and he will have more business than he can handle.

 

[DodgerHawki]

How about guys correcting you on shit that wasn't actually said?

"We're going back and forth. I never said anything racial but it was definitely a verbal altercation, we got face-to-face. That's when he said, 'F--- you, I'll send your ass back to Glenville.'

Little bit different than "GHETTO", but whatever.

It is important to focus on what was actually said, that is true. This story in the First Coast News had Terrance Pryor on the record. It is consistent with what he told Husch Blackwell in their investigation.

"One specific “joke” has stuck with Pryor, now a practicing, sports law attorney in Atlanta: while rehabbing from a season-ending injury, Doyle approached him. “Hey Pryor, you ever think that football isn’t for you?” Doyle asked. A confused Pryor asked why Doyle would think that.
“Maybe you should take up rowing or something, you know? Oh wait, Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?”

You say those things in most any workplace in America, you get fired immediately and don't get severance.

Former players sound off on former Jaguars assistant Chris Doyle | firstcoastnews.com

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

Doyle just needs to set up his own sports performance clinic and he will have more business than he can handle.

Agree. People can choose to work with him or not. It’s that simple.

We live in a world now of guilty until proven innocent instead of innocent until proven guilty for everything. It’s just as bad as someone exposing hate and racial overtones when they are not needed to motivate people to do things to be the best they can when they need that kick in the arse to get there. And Doyle must of taken it too far in his language and actions to piss off and motivate players to either accept the challenge physically and mentally or quit and stop wasting his time.

 

[ClarindaA's]

I tend to agree with this, although if Doyle’s ghetto comments were actually said, it’s way out of line. And his firing isn’t surprising.

He said Glenville. Bomani Jones from ESPN ran with the false narrative of ghetto

 

[hawkfeever]

It is important to focus on what was actually said, that is true. This story in the First Coast News had Terrance Pryor on the record. It is consistent with what he told Husch Blackwell in their investigation.

"One specific “joke” has stuck with Pryor, now a practicing, sports law attorney in Atlanta: while rehabbing from a season-ending injury, Doyle approached him. “Hey Pryor, you ever think that football isn’t for you?” Doyle asked. A confused Pryor asked why Doyle would think that.
“Maybe you should take up rowing or something, you know? Oh wait, Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?”

You say those things in most any workplace in America, you get fired immediately and don't get severance.

Former players sound off on former Jaguars assistant Chris Doyle | firstcoastnews.com

So he is on the record. We don't know Chris's response. Just cause someone is on the record doesn't mean it is 100% accurate. And no it doesn't matter to me that he is an attorney. Hard to believe but since we could utter words humans have lied or told half-truths. I would prefer to hear both sides, but we will probably never know Chris's response. Yes, if what this person states is true that is over the line and should have been reprimanded. I don't believe that constitutes immediate dismissal in most workplaces. If higher level management yes, but mid to lower no, there would be a reprimand and training and then if behavior continued yes, then can them.

From what I hear it takes a hell of a lot to get fired from a federal government job by the way.

 

[sultanofsuede]

How did Daniels end up on Gottlieb? Was it mostly the Doyle topic? Was it about blocking for bad Bears QB’s? Seems a little strange to have a OL guy that was out most of 2020 on a national radio show. Nothing against MD, was just curious if the angle.

 

[ClarindaA's]

How did Daniels end up on Gottlieb? Was it mostly the Doyle topic? Was it about blocking for bad Bears QB’s? Seems a little strange to have a OL guy that was out most of 2020 on a national radio show. Nothing against MD, was just curious if the angle.

Jesus.... Mike is a DTackle
You’re thinking of James

 

[Hammer93]

How did Daniels end up on Gottlieb? Was it mostly the Doyle topic? Was it about blocking for bad Bears QB’s? Seems a little strange to have a OL guy that was out most of 2020 on a national radio show. Nothing against MD, was just curious if the angle.

He's a DL.

 

[sultanofsuede]

Wow - I had no idea MD was playing DL in the nfl. Yeah - was only referring to his brother (James).

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Wow - I had no idea MD was playing DL in the nfl. Yeah - was only referring to his brother (James).

Mike and James are not brothers. James and LeShun (fmr. RB) are.

 

[hawkiniowacity]

Wow - I had no idea MD was playing DL in the nfl. Yeah - was only referring to his brother (James).

The hole just keeps being dug.

Try again

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

Wow - I had no idea MD was playing DL in the nfl. Yeah - was only referring to his brother (James).

Mike Daniels played at Iowa 2008-2011.

LeShun (2013-2016) and James (2015-2017) are brothers and played at Iowa together.

Google is a wonderful thing.

 

[Franisdaman]

What a great listen
'Did you develop your own workouts?'
'My own touch to it, I learned from all the great weight sensi Coach Doyle......'
'Coach Doyle you mentioned was legendary strength coach Chris Doyle at Iowa, in you experience, just you what is your reaction to what lead to his career downfall?'
"Exactly what you said, I went from a 2 star 207 pound running back to a 290 pound All B1G, draftable, defensive tackle, stud. That perfectly sums up my experience at Iowa"

Ok, now I am confused. I thought Rob Howe was right!!!!!

 

[Hawks4Life86]

Mike Daniels also did agree with James that there were racial disparities in the program though.

 

[Frosty7130]

He did, but like James, he wanted to point out problems to make better. I don't believe for a second that either he nor James set out to cost Doyle his position.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

How about guys correcting you on shit that wasn't actually said?

"We're going back and forth. I never said anything racial but it was definitely a verbal altercation, we got face-to-face. That's when he said, 'F--- you, I'll send your ass back to Glenville.'

Little bit different than "GHETTO", but whatever.

I'm fine with the ghetto comment. Especially, if player ever previously referred to where he came from as being the ghetto. We have no idea about the previous conversations Doyle had with player.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

It is important to focus on what was actually said, that is true. This story in the First Coast News had Terrance Pryor on the record. It is consistent with what he told Husch Blackwell in their investigation.

"One specific “joke” has stuck with Pryor, now a practicing, sports law attorney in Atlanta: while rehabbing from a season-ending injury, Doyle approached him. “Hey Pryor, you ever think that football isn’t for you?” Doyle asked. A confused Pryor asked why Doyle would think that.
“Maybe you should take up rowing or something, you know? Oh wait, Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?”

You say those things in most any workplace in America, you get fired immediately and don't get severance.

Former players sound off on former Jaguars assistant Chris Doyle | firstcoastnews.com

No, you shouldn't get fired for saying that. Not at all. Maybe get reprimanded, but you should not get fired for saying, "Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?” That is not something anyone should ever be fired for assuming it was a first-time, thing.

This is the type of thing people get sick of. If a black (or white person) says, "White people can't dance" should they be fired? No.

The victimhood, walk-on egg shells for the absolute stupidest sh*t has to stop.

 

[Frosty7130]

I'm fine with the ghetto comment. Especially, if player ever previously referred to where he came from as being the ghetto. We have no idea about the previous conversations Doyle had with player.

No, you shouldn't get fired for saying that. Not at all. Maybe get reprimanded, but you should not get fired for saying, "Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?” That is not something anyone should ever be fired for assuming it was a first-time, thing.

This is the type of thing people get sick of. If a black (or white person) says, "White people can't dance" should they be fired? No.

The victimhood, walk-on egg shells for the absolute stupidest sh*t has to stop.

This ain't it chief.

A) It's moot since the ghetto comment was retracted, but the reason it is unacceptable is the assumption that a player comes from the ghetto because he's black.

B) Both generalizations aren't acceptable from a public employee, but the first one is leagues worse, considering it's making a joke about the Atlantic Slave Trade. Sure, humor is subjective and each group of friends will have their own standards and certain lines that you can or cannot cross, but Doyle was a public employee, and the players were clearly uncomfortable with it, so that joke was totally unacceptable.

 

[Hawkeye Marching Band]

Huh.
So Mike didn't mind tying his shoes, pulling up his pants, and listening to country music and classic rock during workouts with Doyle?
Awesome.
(and he worked his ass off to be where he is)

There's a lot of great things to say about Mike Daniels, including his work ethic. The only thing we can really take away from the quotation in the OP, though, is that he didn't want to discuss Doyle's downfall. Daniels was happy with the results and clearly gives Doyle credit for helping him get there. He may or may not have minded the things you mention, or anything else regarding Doyle's personality and approach.

A couple things we do know from last year. Mike tweeted support for James Daniels and Kirk asked Mike to chair the advocacy panel. It is quite possible that Mike had no comment regarding Doyle's downfall for Gottlieb precisely because he's chairing the panel and is keeping everything in-house for now.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

No, you shouldn't get fired for saying that. Not at all. Maybe get reprimanded, but you should not get fired for saying, "Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?” That is not something anyone should ever be fired for assuming it was a first-time, thing.

This is the type of thing people get sick of. If a black (or white person) says, "White people can't dance" should they be fired? No.

The victimhood, walk-on egg shells for the absolute stupidest sh*t has to stop.

Big difference. White people actually CAN'T dance, so it's just stating facts.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

You all should listen to an interview Felicia Goodson gave last year. But the SJWs in here wouldn't believe it, anyway, so no sense linking it.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

This ain't it chief.

A) It's moot since the ghetto comment was retracted, but the reason it is unacceptable is the assumption that a player comes from the ghetto because he's black.

B) Both generalizations aren't acceptable from a public employee, but the first one is leagues worse, considering it's making a joke about the Atlantic Slave Trade. Sure, humor is subjective and each group of friends will have their own standards and certain lines that you can or cannot cross, but Doyle was a public employee, and the players were clearly uncomfortable with it, so that joke was totally unacceptable.

"Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?” may be leagues worse than "White people can't dance". Still not something you should get fired over.

 

[Frosty7130]

"Black people don’t like boats in water, do they?” may be leagues worse than "White people can't dance". Still not something you should get fired over.

By itself, no. But it was simply one of many allegations, and not all of them were exaggerated.

 

[hawkfeever]

Big difference. White people actually CAN'T dance, so it's just stating facts.

I am living proof of that fact. I do have a super power of making the coolest thing very uncool when I participate.

 

[hawkeyekid]

He said Glenville. Bomani Jones from ESPN ran with the false narrative of ghetto

I'm OK with Iowa cutting ties with Doyle, but Bomani Jones should be immediately fired for doing that. It should also eliminate him from future jobs he may want. It's unacceptable in the workplace.

 

[HawkInArk]

This ain't it chief.

A) It's moot since the ghetto comment was retracted, but the reason it is unacceptable is the assumption that a player comes from the ghetto because he's black.

I'm pretty sure the staff is/has been very familiar with the area (Glenville, OH) due to recruiting footprint, so there would be no "assumptions" in this case.

1) First click about Glenville produced "one of Cleveland's most visual examples of poverty, crime, and urban decay."

2) This is speculative/hypothetical but in my opinion, if a coach hears a player refer to his former home as "ghetto" it shouldn't be a huge deal for that coach to use the term in a future comment.

Bottom line in my opinion: Guilty until proven innocent is the world today, and Chris Doyle was a major casualty because of it. Secondly, social media rules the world unfortunately.

 

[Frosty7130]

I'm pretty sure the staff is/has been very familiar with the area (Glenville, OH) due to recruiting footprint, so there would be no "assumptions" in this case.

1) First click about Glenville produced "one of Cleveland's most visual examples of poverty, crime, and urban decay."

2) This is speculative/hypothetical but in my opinion, if a coach hears a player refer to his former home as "ghetto" it shouldn't be a huge deal for that coach to use the term in a future comment.

Bottom line in my opinion: Guilty until proven innocent is the world today, and Chris Doyle was a major casualty because of it. Secondly, social media rules the world unfortunately.

No disagreement about point 1. Not so sure about point 2, mainly because we don't know if that was the case for Pryor, and it's still a bad look. But again, moot point because Doyle never said ghetto.

I mostly agree with with your conclusion, because I don't think Doyle is a racist or even a bad person. One of my strength coaches in college was the exact same way (and even spent some time at Iowa under Doyle), without racially-comments anyways, at least from what I observed. But the evidence against Doyle, even after you throw out the BS from guys like Wadley or Terrence Harris was still too much to ignore.

 

[jo12208]

Big difference. White people actually CAN'T dance, so it's just stating facts.

That is racist.

 

[HawkInArk]

But the evidence against Doyle, even after you throw out the BS from guys like Wadley or Terrence Harris was still too much to ignore.

Too much to "ignore," absolutely.

But if it weren't for all the overreaction, guilty until proven innocent 'fire this man' pressure that spread through social media like a forest fire when it was actually a small grass fire, Kirk and Chris could have very easily handled it inside the head coach's office.

 

[cidhawkeye]

That is racist.

John Travolta says hold my beer

 

[HawK + i]

Big difference. White people actually CAN'T dance, so it's just stating facts.

I know plenty of black people that actually can't swim and greatly dislike water/boats... so by your logic, that is just stating facts as well. But the fact that this comment was mixed in with other racist remarks makes it sound terrible.

 

[biggreydogs]

Mike Daniels played at Iowa 2008-2011.

LeShun (2013-2016) and James (2015-2017) are brothers and played at Iowa together.

Google is a wonderful thing.

Brother from another mother.

 

[Hawk and Awe]

I don’t really get how people can defend that guy. He sounded like an asshole. I would have fired him for the statement he released about how he’s never been unethical. That was just bizarre

 

[woodsiding]

Conformity in work ethic was the guiding principle. A former player told me a story once about his first workout as freshman when the entire class had gotten there. All the freshmen were in the meeting room. Doyle introduced himself, talked a little about the expectations, then asked the players to introduce themself by saying first name, high school they came from, City, and state. The first five or so guys stand up and introduce themself as instructed, then a player stands up gives his nickname and some extra to his introduction. Doyle ripped him apart, the kid didn't make it two days with Doyle on his ass. Didn't matter if it was a walk-on or the best recruit in a class, do exactly what has to be done. Race didn't factor, and that part was fine. Just building discipline. Problem was once you got on the Doyle shit-list, Doyle was a dog on a bone making sure you knew where you stood with him. That's where Doyle would eventually get in trouble and say shit that shouldn't have been said.

 

[FreddyUI]

Conformity in work ethic was the guiding principle. A former player told me a story once about his first workout as freshman when the entire class had gotten there. All the freshmen were in the meeting room. Doyle introduced himself, talked a little about the expectations, then asked the players to introduce themself by saying first name, high school they came from, City, and state. The first five or so guys stand up and introduce themself as instructed, then a player stands up gives his nickname and some extra to his introduction. Doyle ripped him apart, the kid didn't make it two days with Doyle on his ass. Didn't matter if it was a walk-on or the best recruit in a class, do exactly what has to be done. Race didn't factor, and that part was fine. Just building discipline. Problem was once you got on the Doyle shit-list, Doyle was a dog on a bone making sure you knew where you stood with him. That's where Doyle would eventually get in trouble and say shit that shouldn't have been said.

Sounds like a good example of Doyle being a jerk. A LOT of time and expense was dedicated to recruiting that player and if he was chased away simply because he had never been exposed to discipline minded, possibly vindictive coach, that is terrible. That freshman was 17 or 18. Doyle should have corrected him and left it alone. Give the player a chance to learn from his mistakes.