Motorcycle

[theIowaHawk]

Some years ago we discussed a person who was injured when he ran into a parked car. The car was parked in a reasonable way, but the meter had expired.

The driver of the car that ran into the parked car was not drunk, or texting, or speeding. It was just an "accident" in the basic sense of the word. Shit happens.

Since the car was illegally parked, some thought the owner of the parked car should be responsible for the damages or at least a share of the damages. Some disagreed. Since there is case law on this, some just saluted and were unable to give the situation thoughtful consideration.

[This may not have been the exact scenario we discussed; I tried to lay it out in a clean way.]

If that was a real scenario, and anybody believed the parked car was "at fault", they are lying to themselves and everyone else. Even if it was seen as a non-allowable "obstacle" or something similar, the driver is fully informed of its presence...in no way is it "unknown" to the driver.

I would compare this to putting a Giant black slab, a la 2001, in the middle of the road. You don't get to run in to it and then claim that slab is at fault.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If that was a real scenario, and anybody believed the parked car was "at fault", they are lying to themselves and everyone else. Even if it was seen as a non-allowable "obstacle" or something similar, the driver is fully informed of its presence...in no way is it "unknown" to the driver.

I would compare this to putting a Giant black slab, a la 2001, in the middle of the road. You don't get to run in to it and then claim that slab is at fault.

Yeah. To me, this is a pretty straight-forward example of "just because you were where you shouldn't be doesn't mean you are to blame for what happened." But not everybody agrees.

And, yes, to those who went into a hissy fit about it, I do think of that "you deserve it because you shouldn't have been there" is thinking most often exhibited by conservatives. We see lots of variations from someone who isn't wearing his helmet or seatbelt deserves his injury to an illegal immigrant deserving whatever happens to him because he doesn't belong here. Perhaps there are some liberal versions of the same thing, but none are coming to mind.

Don't get me wrong, I get "serves them right" feelings sometimes, too. But I don't try to pretend that it's really right.

 

[BondHawk]

I guess I didn't use my GSX-R 750 & Katana the right way then. dang it.

So what motivated you to own one? If you aren't doing wheelies down the interstate at 90mph, what's the point? You aren't going impress girls by going the speed limit, that's for sure.

 

[longliveCS40]

Some years ago we discussed a person who was injured when he ran into a parked car. The car was parked in a reasonable way, but the meter had expired.

The driver of the car that ran into the parked car was not drunk, or texting, or speeding. It was just an "accident" in the basic sense of the word. Shit happens.

Since the car was illegally parked, some thought the owner of the parked car should be responsible for the damages or at least a share of the damages. Some disagreed. Since there is case law on this, some just saluted and were unable to give the situation thoughtful consideration.

[This may not have been the exact scenario we discussed; I tried to lay it out in a clean way.]

That's interesting. To me, the parked car owner should not be liable. On it's face, I would say they should not be liable but to expound on that. It is likely to assume that another car would have been parked there had the expired meter car moved.

Also, I'm for as little litigation as possible. There are such things are "accidents" and "shit happens" as you say. Everyone wants to blame someone when they screw up.

 

[longliveCS40]

So what motivated you to own one? If you aren't doing wheelies down the interstate at 90mph, what's the point? You aren't going impress girls by going the speed limit, that's for sure.

Not everyone owns a motorcycle to ride like a dong. I can name a lot of reasons to own a sport bike or any other type of bike other than doing wheelies and impressing girls.

It is unfortunate that there's a culture built around sport bikes of riding like jackasses and trying to show off but there are a lot of good riders out there that do it for the right reasons.

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

No one owns a crotch rocket other than to do stupid things with it. That is precisely what they are intended for.

Says you? Seriously? I just love threads like these.People that don't know shit about motorcycles talking out their ass.I had a Yamaha FJR that looked like a sportbike,but was in fact a big touring bike.

Funny how all bikes get lumped into 3 or 4 different categories.
Harleytards
Crotch rockets
Dirt bikes
Scooters

Most people that I ride with take their motorcycling seriously and detest all idiots of whatever stripe and bike they ride.

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

Not everyone owns a motorcycle to ride like a dong. I can name a lot of reasons to own a sport bike or any other type of bike other than doing wheelies and impressing girls.

It is unfortunate that there's a culture built around sport bikes of riding like jackasses and trying to show off but there are a lot of good riders out there that do it for the right reasons.

There is also a culture of doo-rag wearing weekend warriors that can't ride for crap and think they are badass too.

 

[longliveCS40]

There is also a culture of doo-rag wearing weekend warriors that can't ride for crap and think they are badass too.

Agreed. You also have the Hardley riders with no gear on riding a bike that's too big for them because they couldn't buy a "girls bike" Sportster that would actually match their size and skills. The same guys using only the rear brake and looking to "lay her down" at the first sign of trouble.

(I ride a Harley, fyi) There are stupid riders in every category of bike. The dude in the video is dumb for passing on a double yellow and the car driver is criminal.

 

[22*43*51]

Motorcycles should be banned, or at least heavily regulated.

They're dangerous and they kill.

Why does anyone need a motorcycle anyway?

 

[The Tradition]

I particularly enjoy the hypocrisy of laws requiring car drivers to wear a seat belt but bikers can ride with no helmet.

 

[Joes Place]

Says you? Seriously? I just love threads like these.People that don't know shit about motorcycles talking out their ass.I had a Yamaha FJR that looked like a sportbike,but was in fact a big touring bike.

Funny how all bikes get lumped into 3 or 4 different categories.
Harleytards
Crotch rockets
Dirt bikes
Scooters

Most people that I ride with take their motorcycling seriously and detest all idiots of whatever stripe and bike they ride.

You forgot this (bastardized version of a 'motorcycle') category....

Scooter?

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

the driver of the car was an idiot for swerving...should've let the motorcycle rider get taken out by oncoming traffic, but f**k motorcycle drivers.
I cannot take their awareness campaigns in the spring seriously. They need to step off their soapbox and tell their own kind to not ride like jackholes before lecturing me on looking out for them more than i do any other vehicle on the road.

 

[longliveCS40]

Motorcycles should be banned, or at least heavily regulated.

They're dangerous and they kill.

Why does anyone need a motorcycle anyway?

Let's see. Well, they are more affordable than automobiles, they are better for the environment, they cause less traffic congestion, in some instances, they go places automobiles cannot.

At the end of the day, they're fun and they don't kill people. Stupid riders kill themselves and/or stupid drivers kill riders because they aren't paying attention to what they're doing.

How far do you want to regulate things? You say motorcycles kill, I assume you're saying that because they don't protect the rider in an impact or crash. Do we regulate automobiles in the same way? Cars that aren't as good in crash tests shouldn't be on the road or should be heavily regulated? Ferraris? Who NEEDS one of those?

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

I particularly enjoy the hypocrisy of laws requiring car drivers to wear a seat belt but bikers can ride with no helmet.

I agree with that.I am all for motorcycle helmet laws.I have ridden motorcycles for well over 35 years and I can't understand why people would not want to wear a helmet at bare minimum.

I've heard all the ABATE arguments too."I had to lay er down" is the dumbest effin excuse for crashing I have ever heard.
Crash a bike to avoid a crash? How about using all of the available braking power to stop the bike first?

 

[The Tradition]

I agree with that.I am all for motorcycle helmet laws.I have ridden motorcycles for well over 35 years and I can't understand why people would not want to wear a helmet at bare minimum.

I've heard all the ABATE arguments too."I had to lay er down" is the dumbest effin excuse for crashing I have ever heard.
Crash a bike to avoid a crash? How about using all of the available braking power to stop the bike first?

No, I mean we shouldn't have mandatory seat belt laws.

 

[moral_victory]

Eastern Iowa driver's do this too. As they are getting passed, they speed up to prevent the person from passing making the situation dangerous for both drivers..

They absolutely do. I can't figure out to why though.

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

the driver of the car was an idiot for swerving...should've let the motorcycle rider get taken out by oncoming traffic, but f**k motorcycle drivers.
I cannot take their awareness campaigns in the spring seriously. They need to step off their soapbox and tell their own kind to not ride like jackholes before lecturing me on looking out for them more than i do any other vehicle on the road.

Nice.Obviously you drive your vehicle"whatever" that may be in a safe and courteous manner at all times.I am all for tiered motorcycle licensing laws.There are people that should never be allowed to operate a motorcycle.

I am all for dragging people out of their automobiles caught texting on a phone and summarily executed on the spot.Does that work for you too? We can't be so one sided when it comes to safe operations of motor vehicles.Old people should be the first to be banned from driving also.
At what age should their privileges be taken away?

 

[The Tradition]

You will never ban old people from driving. The first legislator who proposes that will be voted out of office so fast his butt will not be able to avoid the slamming door.

 

[22*43*51]

At the end of the day, they're fun and they don't kill people. Stupid riders kill themselves and/or stupid drivers kill riders because they aren't paying attention to what they're doing.

How far do you want to regulate things? You say motorcycles kill, I assume you're saying that because they don't protect the rider in an impact or crash. Do we regulate automobiles in the same way? Cars that aren't as good in crash tests shouldn't be on the road or should be heavily regulated? Ferraris? Who NEEDS one of those?

I agree. Need and Liberty have nothing to do with one another.

This is the same argument I always make in the "gun grabbin'" threads.

I was just fishing for someone to help me make it.

Thanks for the assist.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

Fun Fact: In California, lane spilting by motorcycles is actually legal. I think its absolutely nuts. It is crazy to be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and have a motorcycle go buzzing by you on the line

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

Can we agree that people caught texting while driving an automobile should be dragged from their car and killed on the spot?
I you disagree please explain why.Is their a reason to be so distracted while driving?

Driving a car and riding a motorcycle are privileges.What makes the driver of a car more right?

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

Nice.Obviously you drive your vehicle"whatever" that may be in a safe and courteous manner at all times.I am all for tiered motorcycle licensing laws.There are people that should never be allowed to operate a motorcycle.

I am all for dragging people out of their automobiles caught texting on a phone and summarily executed on the spot.Does that work for you too? We can't be so one sided when it comes to safe operations of motor vehicles.Old people should be the first to be banned from driving also.
At what age should their privileges be taken away?

well, as far as old people, I would at least start with the old codgers that can barely move with their walker and have thick glasses like the individual i saw renewing his license when I was in the DMV. guy could barely walk and yet we are renewing his license. That guy had no reflexes left

As far as motorcyclists, don't preach to me about how I should drive around you when you have motorcycle riders ride like asses and break laws. I am tired of hearing it in one breath and the next seeing a motorcyclists pop a wheelie as he is passing a line of cars, and then cut off a car as his lane comes to an end.

A few years back on St Patty's day, a drunk guy and a female passenger sped through czech village in CR. Czech Village has a 20 mph speed limit. The guy hit a bump and him and the passenger flew into a concrete flower pot type of fixture and died. A while later, friends of the biker had a benefit at a czech village bar. sure as hell, one of them was standing on his soapbox saying how everybody needs to be aware of motorcycles...which i thought was odd, since it was his own careless riding in the one vehicle accident that caused their death.

 

[22*43*51]

Can we agree that people caught texting while driving an automobile should be dragged from their car and killed on the spot?

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

Can we agree that people caught texting while driving an automobile should be dragged from their car and killed on the spot?
I you disagree please explain why.Is their a reason to be so distracted while driving?

Driving a car and riding a motorcycle are privileges.What makes the driver of a car more right?

as far as I am concerned, if you are texting while driving and cause an accident (regardless of how minor)the penalty should not only be a huge monetary fine but imprisonment for at least a year as well (longer depending on severity).

You want to eliminate texting and driving...let a few people get hit with this penalty. it will do a lot more than the current "laws" on the books

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

While we are discussing things that are dangerous let's figure out what else needs to be banned in this country.Just for the children's sake

Base jumping
Scuba diving
Eating sushi
Going to concerts
Football
Taking a shower
Smoking pot
West coast sweet corn
No condom sex

Last but not least.Being an Iowa State Cyclone fan.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Can we agree that people caught texting while driving an automobile should be dragged from their car and killed on the spot?
I you disagree please explain why.Is their a reason to be so distracted while driving?

Driving a car and riding a motorcycle are privileges.What makes the driver of a car more right?

Because the said texting may not actually be making them drive worse...same reason we allow you to drive home drunk, you are damn good at it now.

 

[theIowaHawk]

as far as I am concerned, if you are texting while driving and cause an accident (regardless of how minor)the penalty should not only be a huge monetary fine but imprisonment for at least a year as well (longer depending on severity).

You want to eliminate texting and driving...let a few people get hit with this penalty. it will do a lot more than the current "laws" on the books

By this I presume you cause the accident by way of negligence.

Why narrow it to that? Why not all negligence?

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

Because the said texting may not actually be making them drive worse...same reason we allow you to drive home drunk, you are damn good at it now.

Who says I drink and drive? You? I don't drink and drive.

 

[The Tradition]

Similar the the helmet vs. seat belt disparity, you're allowed to use your phone for map and navigation apps. So, as long as you have the map app running, how would they know you were texting at the time of the crash?

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

By this I presume you cause the accident by way of negligence.

Why narrow it to that? Why not all negligence?

texting and driving is the negligence du jour and was the center around sailor's post. If there is another form of negligence that causes the amount of death and destruction and is the focus of so many ad campaigns, then we can look at current laws (or proposed laws) and go from there.

I realize that the drinking and driving laws (and penalties) don't stop people from drunk driving into things, but the penalties are a lot stiffer than the texting and driving laws that are on the books today

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

. So, as long as you have the map app running, how would they know you were texting at the time of the crash?

Cell phone records could probably be obtained to see when texts were sent.

 

[longliveCS40]

As far as motorcyclists, don't preach to me about how I should drive around you when you have motorcycle riders ride like asses and break laws. I am tired of hearing it in one breath and the next seeing a motorcyclists pop a wheelie as he is passing a line of cars, and then cut off a car as his lane comes to an end.

A few years back on St Patty's day, a drunk guy and a female passenger sped through czech village in CR. Czech Village has a 20 mph speed limit. The guy hit a bump and him and the passenger flew into a concrete flower pot type of fixture and died. A while later, friends of the biker had a benefit at a czech village bar. sure as hell, one of them was standing on his soapbox saying how everybody needs to be aware of motorcycles...which i thought was odd, since it was his own careless riding in the one vehicle accident that caused their death.

So because some motorcycle riders ride stupidly and break laws you shouldn't have to be cautious and watchful for other motorcycles? Good logic there, Einstein.

I once saw someone driving a Prius while texting and swerve into my lane. Therefore, I am no longer watching for Priuses or driving cautiously around them. If they happen to get hit and killed by me, it was their own damn fault! Is that how your logic works?

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

well, as far as old people, I would at least start with the old codgers that can barely move with their walker and have thick glasses like the individual i saw renewing his license when I was in the DMV. guy could barely walk and yet we are renewing his license. That guy had no reflexes left

As far as motorcyclists, don't preach to me about how I should drive around you when you have motorcycle riders ride like asses and break laws. I am tired of hearing it in one breath and the next seeing a motorcyclists pop a wheelie as he is passing a line of cars, and then cut off a car as his lane comes to an end.

A few years back on St Patty's day, a drunk guy and a female passenger sped through czech village in CR. Czech Village has a 20 mph speed limit. The guy hit a bump and him and the passenger flew into a concrete flower pot type of fixture and died. A while later, friends of the biker had a benefit at a czech village bar. sure as hell, one of them was standing on his soapbox saying how everybody needs to be aware of motorcycles...which i thought was odd, since it was his own careless riding in the one vehicle accident that caused their death.

You are lumping all motorcyclists into one big pot.I am not that rider.We all get preached to when it comes to operating motor vehicles.
You are thinking I am sort of "biker".I am not that type of rider.I might like to drink,but I never mix the two together.

Look.We all have our stories about people we don't like which colors our perceptions.I'm as guilty as anyone here.
I hate micro swill beer drinking pukes too.

 

[longliveCS40]

I agree. Need and Liberty have nothing to do with one another.

This is the same argument I always make it the "gun grabbin'" threads.

I was just fishing for someone to help me make it.

Thanks for the assist.

Well thank god you were just trolling me. I probably should have known from the way you worded things but this is HROT and the abundance of bad opinions and stupidity has caused me to take every dumb post seriously.

I like riding a motorcycle and owning a gun and I'm not a republican.

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

So because some motorcycle riders ride stupidly and break laws you shouldn't have to be cautious and watchful for other motorcycles? Good logic there, Einstein.

I didn't say that genius. I never said I wasn't cautious or watchful for motorcycles. Just don't get on a soapbox when the weather warms up and preach to me that I need to be more watchful and cautious than i am around other vehicles

 

[theIowaHawk]

Who says I drink and drive? You? I don't drink and drive.

It was purely presumptive on my part. Point still stands, you can't simply be stopped for "drinking and driving", and you shouldn't be summarily executed for "texting" based on the chance something bad could happen.

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

Do I look like someone that doesn't take riding seriously?See those big boobs I have for air bags?

 

[theIowaHawk]

texting and driving is the negligence du jour and was the center around sailor's post. If there is another form of negligence that causes the amount of death and destruction and is the focus of so many ad campaigns, then we can look at current laws (or proposed laws) and go from there.

I realize that the drinking and driving laws (and penalties) don't stop people from drunk driving into things, but the penalties are a lot stiffer than the texting and driving laws that are on the books today

Fair enough.

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

Do I look like someone that doesn't take riding seriously?See those big boobs I have for air bags?

just for the record, I am one who thinks that if someone drives like an Ahole on a motorcylce, they likely drive like one in a 4 wheeled vehicle also. Same thing when people complain about bicyclists on the road.

I just don't see the bumper stickers and ad campaigns about reminding motorcyclists to ride smart like i do the ones preaching to 4 wheeled vehicles to be more cautious and aware for motorcycles.

 

[SailorJerryHawk]

To be fair to every one posting in this thread.
Thank you.
Thank you for all of your thoughts.Conversations are nice.
You probably see these douchebag motorcycle videos and think this is how a lot of people ride.

Most people like me ride for the fun and enjoyment.I don't ride to pop wheelies.I don't ride with a doo-rag to be cool.
I don't ride to ride to the next bar.I save the drinking for after the ride.
I don't ride to be a part of some crowd.I actually hate crowds.I ride a motorcycle because I like to ride a motorcycle.That's all.