ADVERTISEMENT

Nearly 700 teachers projected to leave Omaha Public Schools by July 1

Well there’s only so much $ out there to be had, and if you want to give teachers more, the truck drivers are going to pay for it in taxes. Why does a doctorate even qualify someone to make more money as a teacher anyway? You’d think they could reward based on performance only. The flaws of government I guess 🤷‍♂️
Because high performance from a teacher doesn't automatically mean high performance from students. However, education and experience are shown to consistently provide better performance from teachers when you measure things like how lesson plans are constructed, interventions a teacher has performed for different students, and how teachers have adapted lesson plans to the needs of their students. Things teachers should be evaluated on, not on how some slacker with no goals in life and was playing video games until 4 in the morning happens to do on a test they don't give two flying f***s about.
 
Minneapolis (blue) or Minnesota (red)?
I live in Minnesota red area, and have a private school just down the street that has had by far the highest enrollment in the history of the school the last couple of years, and "only" $14k a year or so tuition.............

But they actually go to school, don't have to go thru metal detector's to get in, and nobody is being shot in the parking lot. Nobody leaving class for BLM or abortion "protests". I call that Winning.
 
My oldest wanted to be a teacher, and then changed course. Why go into a profession where you are vilified and disrespected? Or, have some parent who doesn't care enough to come to a parent/ teacher conference all of a sudden showing up at school board meetings screaming that parents have rights to know what kids are being taught, and teachers are groomers!
High salary per hour worked and 2 months off during the nicest time of year. You think that's crazy, why would anyone want to be a cop/ addictions counselor/ social worker?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chuck C
🤷‍♂️ not the greatest measure either, but certainly a better measure than a phd. I mean, come on.
You still haven't responded to my earlier query. How about this one: How do you know that student performance on a standardized test is a better measure of teacher effectiveness than a higher degree? You said "certainly" so I assume you have sources.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom Paris
Sorry...missed this. So you're promoting a "solution" but haven't the slightest clue how to implement it. Good plan. Well thought out.
Eliminate increased salaries for doctorate degrees. That’s a pretty clear implementation method. Standardized test scores are not perfect, but to imply that they are a useless measure of the effectiveness of a teacher is ridiculous.
 
Well, that's what they are doing in some cases. Although there's a lot of hidden costs to being a truck driver that takes away from their pay. Like, they have to pay for their own gas. And they have to pay for their own truck, or be leasing the truck from the company they are hauling for. I suppose there are companies out there with their own trucks and just pay you to run stuff from one place to another, but I doubt they pay as much.
Walmart pays driver 75-90k from day one. thats driving a Walmart truck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom Paris
Obviously teachers should be evaluated based on standardized test scores.
There has never been a good solution to the problem of how to properly, accurately, and fairly evaluate teacher performance, but in Pennsylvania, standardized test scores are part of the evaluation criteria.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThorneStockton
Eliminate increased salaries for doctorate degrees. That’s a pretty clear implementation method. Standardized test scores are not perfect, but to imply that they are a useless measure of the effectiveness of a teacher is ridiculous.
LOL...standardized test scores are shit. They might be somewhat useful in the aggregate, but they are less than worthless in IDing an effective teacher. VAM scores - like EVAAS - are based on mathematical models developed to assess the growth of CROPS. They treat students like carrots and assume the only factor responsible for their growth is the teacher in their classroom.

And a particular teacher's score can vary dramatically from year to year. One study found that of the teachers judged to be in the top 20% based on test scores one year, a full third were in the bottom 40% the next year. A study in NC indicated the "value" of VAM-based rankings when it found that a student’s 5th grade teacher was a better predictor of students’ 4th grade growth than was the student’s 4th grade teacher. Yeah...read that again...teachers somehow impacted students they had never taught in a statistically significant way. Figure that one out.

And then, of course, there's the bias inherent in the models. A very recent study used actual EVAAS data and found that teachers in schools with the lowest relative populations of minority, FRL, SPED, or ELL students are more effective. Or, perhaps, and in line with current research on other VAMs (Amrein-Beardsley & *Collins, 2012; Capitol Hill Briefing, 2011; Hill et al., 2011; McCaffrey et al., 2004; Newton et al., 2010; Rothstein, 2009, 2010, 2014; Rothstein & Mathis, 2013), the EVAAS may be biased against teachers who teach relatively higher proportions of these students. The take-away from that is that good teachers facing high stakes testing will refuse to go where they are needed most...why would they when it will negatively affect their compensation.

BTW, EVAAS...the most widely used VAM...is proprietary to SAS Institute. They make bank selling it. And they have never allowed their source code to be evaluated outside their own walls. More relevant, the output generated by that source code - the actual information it generates - is also held as proprietary meaning their claims for EVAAS and what it can show have never been rigorously analyzed by any entity other than SAS itself. One internal SAS reliability analysis using 3 years of EVAAS data found correlations among teachers’ EVAAS estimates from one year to the next to be significantly high (i.e., ranging from r = .70 to r = .80). Sounds great. SAS cites the result in their sales pitch but...strangely...refuses to release the actual paper for academic scrutiny.
.
We have to take their word for it, in other words.
 
LOL...standardized test scores are shit. They might be somewhat useful in the aggregate, but they are less than worthless in IDing an effective teacher. VAM scores - like EVAAS - are based on mathematical models developed to assess the growth of CROPS. They treat students like carrots and assume the only factor responsible for their growth is the teacher in their classroom.

And a particular teacher's score can vary dramatically from year to year. One study found that of the teachers judged to be in the top 20% based on test scores one year, a full third were in the bottom 40% the next year. A study in NC indicated the "value" of VAM-based rankings when it found that a student’s 5th grade teacher was a better predictor of students’ 4th grade growth than was the student’s 4th grade teacher. Yeah...read that again...teachers somehow impacted students they had never taught in a statistically significant way. Figure that one out.

And then, of course, there's the bias inherent in the models. A very recent study used actual EVAAS data and found that teachers in schools with the lowest relative populations of minority, FRL, SPED, or ELL students are more effective. Or, perhaps, and in line with current research on other VAMs (Amrein-Beardsley & *Collins, 2012; Capitol Hill Briefing, 2011; Hill et al., 2011; McCaffrey et al., 2004; Newton et al., 2010; Rothstein, 2009, 2010, 2014; Rothstein & Mathis, 2013), the EVAAS may be biased against teachers who teach relatively higher proportions of these students. The take-away from that is that good teachers facing high stakes testing will refuse to go where they are needed most...why would they when it will negatively affect their compensation.

BTW, EVAAS...the most widely used VAM...is proprietary to SAS Institute. They make bank selling it. And they have never allowed their source code to be evaluated outside their own walls. More relevant, the output generated by that source code - the actual information it generates - is also held as proprietary meaning their claims for EVAAS and what it can show has never been analyzed by any entity othert han SAS itself. One internal SAS reliability analysis using 3 years of EVAAS data found correlations among teachers’ EVAAS estimates from one year to the next to be significantly high (i.e., ranging from r = .70 to r = .80). Sounds great. SAS cites the result in their sales pitch but...strangely...refuses to release the actual paper for acdemic scrutiny.
.
We have to take their word for it, in other words.
Sum it up bud, you’re not worth that much reading.
 
The summary is in the first sentance. I assume you can get that far. If you care to understand why, you might want to work on your reading stamina...or remain ignorant. Your choice.
I never claimed they were perfect. You wasted all that energy when we basically were in agreement.
 
I’ll pray for you this evening. Clearly something else is happening in your life to cause all this hate in your heart 💋
Not necessary. Any entity to which you pray would be immaterial to my life or happiness...which is abundant. In the future, you might want to keep your mouth shut in matters where your ignorance is manifestly profound. Of course, were you to follow that advice you'd be silent for the rest of your life.
 
Not necessary. Any entity to which you pray would be immaterial to my life or happiness...which is abundant. In the future, you might want to keep your mouth shut in matters where your ignorance is manifestly profound. Of course, were you to follow that advice you'd be silent for the rest of your life.
Deeply personal. You still have yet to solve the doctorate issue, which is the origin of our disagreement. I guess it’s easier to just cut and paste studies that are irrelevant and call someone else stupid. Bet your students’ test scores are spectacular.
 
Deeply personal. You still have yet to solve the doctorate issue, which is the origin of our disagreement. I guess it’s easier to just cut and paste studies that are irrelevant and call someone else stupid. Bet your students’ test scores are spectacular.
There is no "doctorate issue". You invented it. You claimed standardized tests were better. You refused to read scholarly work that questions it's validity. Now your claim has shifted to them being "irrelevant".

My students are awesome, thanks for asking...but we don't get tested...another flaw in your apparently abandoned idea to use standardized tests as a metric. I teach a nationally-based engineering curriculum and they flatly refuse to put in any kind of standardized testing because they know it's crap. My kids design, fabricate, test, revise, retest... wind turbine blades and gliders and CO2 dragsters and rockets and solar-powered cars. We got no time to waste on moranic testing. My kids learn how to code and use 3-D printers and laser cutters and CNC machines. We build shit - even in VR now that we have a VR cart. So what kind of standardized test would you propose for that? How about art teachers? Band teachers? PE? How will you pay for it?

BTW, I never called you "stupid"...but I certainly won't argue with that idea.
 
There is no "doctorate issue". You invented it. You claimed standardized tests were better. You refused to read scholarly work that questions it's validity. Now your claim has shifted to them being "irrelevant".

My students are awesome, thanks for asking...but we don't get tested...another flaw in your apparently abandoned idea to use standardized tests as a metric. I teach a nationally-based engineering curriculum and they flatly refuse to put in any kind of standardized testing because they know it's crap. My kids design, fabricate, test, revise, retest... wind turbine blades and gliders and CO2 dragsters and rockets and solar-powered cars. We got no time to waste on moranic testing. My kids learn how to code and use 3-D printers and laser cutters and CNC machines. We build shit - even in VR now that we have a VR cart. So what kind of standardized test would you propose for that? How about art teachers? Band teachers? PE? How will you pay for it?

BTW, I never called you "stupid"...but I certainly won't argue with that idea.
I didn’t invent shit. It’s the source of this entire conversation. You’re the one dragging standardized tests into our conversation as a whataboutism. Go gaslight someone else, it’s not going to work here.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: sob5
That’s a good point. These teachers who are leaving can just go get their CDL and make bank. Not sure why anyone would teach when those lazy truck drivers are making so much money.
Yeah, bad comparison. Truck driving isn't exactly the easiest job on the planet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NCHawk5
I live in Minnesota red area, and have a private school just down the street that has had by far the highest enrollment in the history of the school the last couple of years, and "only" $14k a year or so tuition.............

But they actually go to school, don't have to go thru metal detector's to get in, and nobody is being shot in the parking lot. Nobody leaving class for BLM or abortion "protests". I call that Winning.
Only $14 K a year per kid? Some bargain.
 
I didn’t invent shit. It’s the source of this entire conversation. You’re the one dragging standardized tests into our conversation as a whataboutism. Go gaslight someone else, it’s not going to work here.
You shouldn't lie. We've covered that in the past.

How would that work…exactly?
Idk but incentivizing people to go get arguably worthless degrees seems pretty foolish. Over-qualifying yourself shouldn’t be rewarded.
Obviously teachers should be evaluated based on standardized test scores.
🤷‍♂️ not the greatest measure either, but certainly a better measure than a phd. I mean, come on.

And now standardized testing is part of the conversation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nelly02
You shouldn't lie. We've covered that in the past.






And now standardized testing is part of the conversation.
Not gaslighting me bud. No who’s on first today. Good luck with everything. Hope you can find someone to play along.
 
Arent you swamped with work until mid June NC? Between this and tracking back your family genealogy - I’m surprised you’re popping up so frequently on HORT.
Who are you? But I can multitask it’s not hard.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT