# of Top 5 ranked HS wrestlers..

[Spicolli]

A lot of chatter about how Iowa has not been producing the top guys lately. We know PA is the powerhouse of HS wrestling. I took a quick look at all the top 5 ranked guys for several states:


PA 16 **Top 5 kid at every weight except 132 and HWT
NJ 10
IL 6
OH 5
CA 5
IA 3 (#4 Happel, #4 Isley, #5 Gremmel)

Iowa doesn't have a wrestler in the top 3 in any weight. I think you can see how this is affecting Iowa recruiting. For incoming recruits. Iowa's top guys coming from PA (Kemerer, Young), OH (Marinelli), CA(Meja, Luke).

 

[artradley]

A lot of chatter about how Iowa has not been producing the top guys lately. We know PA is the powerhouse of HS wrestling. I took a quick look at all the top 5 ranked guys for several states:


PA 16 **Top 5 kid at every weight except 132 and HWT
NJ 10
IL 6
OH 5
CA 5
IA 3 (#4 Happel, #4 Isley, #5 Gremmel)

Iowa doesn't have a wrestler in the top 3 in any weight. I think you can see how this is affecting Iowa recruiting. For incoming recruits. Iowa's top guys coming from PA (Kemerer, Young), OH (Marinelli), CA(Meja, Luke).

Yeah, that's a problem that dawned on me when Cael won his first Nationals. Having a high-profile coach at a high-profile university in the middle of where the best wrestling is currently happening is a recipe for domination. I don't know how you battle it.

 

[pablow]

Hum, I'd settle for Happel, Thomsen, Lyon, and Zachary.

 

[moosemonster]

Hum, I'd settle for Happel, Thomsen, Lyon, and Zachary.

I want them all at Iowa, but I doubt there's a national champion from that group.

 

[1stplacehawk]

The in-state talent available has been hurting our program far more than the Brands brothers. Our single biggest issue, IMO

 

[TS568]

Hum, I'd settle for Happel, Thomsen, Lyon, and Zachary.

We want those guys sure (especially the two in the middle IMO) but that is 4 wrestlers over 3 recruiting classes. PSU seems to be getting 4 homegrown kids at least that highly ranked in about every recruiting class as well as getting out-of-state studs (Hall, Nickal, McIntosh). We have done a very good job getting Kemerer, Marinelli and Mejia in the fold but it puts a hell of a lot of pressure on your program to hit on those guys (Spencer Lee types) when you don't have the in-state pipeline that s the lifeblood of your team.

 

[texas twister]

In state talent has been consistent over the decades. Yes, I can be corrected. Even Gable recruited all over the map.

 

[bakerbulldogs]

Iowa has 3.1 mill in population compared to 12.8 mill populatiom of Pennsylvania. Big difference. The fresh through jr class still has some kids that will be top 5 to 10 contenders in their weights by the time they are seniors... devos, biscoglia, teske, thomsen, shiltz, coleman, and wriedt.

 

[Stanley75]

Iowa has 3.1 mill in population compared to 12.8 mill populatiom of Pennsylvania. Big difference. The fresh through jr class still has some kids that will be top 5 to 10 contenders in their weights by the time they are seniors... devos, biscoglia, teske, thomsen, shiltz, coleman, and wriedt.

California has a population of over 39 million, But they don't have the wrestling tradition of the Eastern states. Iowa puts out more studs per populous than most states. Pennsylvania has a big population and tradition.

 

[pumpdog20]

The trend in Iowa is disturbing. Take a look at Oklahoma. Their stock is down as well, and Ok St has had a long drought in the win column.

 

[artradley]

California has a population of over 39 million, But they don't have the wrestling tradition of the Eastern states. Iowa puts out more studs per populous than most states. Pennsylvania has a big population and tradition.

Yes, the good-wrestlers-per-population ratio is very good in Iowa. The problem is that the ratio is also high in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, with several times more kids in those states. It's going to be a huge problem for Iowa for years to come.

 

[Jaysdad7]

I don't understand why people think u need to pull kids from your own state don't you want to best kids in the country?

 

[1stplacehawk]

I don't understand why people think u need to pull kids from your own state don't you want to best kids in the country?

You don't have to but between proximity and several being lifetime fans, it often makes it easier to land those kids

 

[Jaysdad7]

I think if u go for the best kids in country and offer them a good scholarship they will come but when u take a top 20 Kids and instead of a top 10 kid and expect to make the assada champion it doesn't all ways work

 

[Omahahawk86]

I think if u go for the best kids in country and offer them a good scholarship they will come but when u take a top 20 Kids and instead of a top 10 kid and expect to make the assada champion it doesn't all ways work

I'm with you. You have to go for the best guys. It's just much easier to get the guys in your own backyard.

The per capita is all fine and dandy but that doesn't stack a lineup. We need to get the Halloways and Sam Cook's of the world for cheap and land the blue chippers.

 

[Jackhawk87]

I think if u go for the best kids in country and offer them a good scholarship they will come but when u take a top 20 Kids and instead of a top 10 kid and expect to make the assada champion it doesn't all ways work

Totally agree with you, but it is much cheaper to get an in-state kid than an out-of-state kid (all things being equal). Out-of-state kids pay out of state tuition, so it may require more scholly money to get them there. Also, in-state kids are more likely to be die hard fans of the in-state college and will accept less scholly money to fulfill their dream.

Unless you are a school lucky enough to somehow have a system to pay back the kids for the out-of-state tuition and other debts once they are out of college , getting the top kids year in and year out will be challenging with only 9.9 scholarships.

 

[Jaysdad7]

I hear Penn state is giving the kids the really want a good amount of money and that why they land them

 

[artradley]

I think if u go for the best kids in country and offer them a good scholarship they will come but when u take a top 20 Kids and instead of a top 10 kid and expect to make the assada champion it doesn't all ways work

It's not a question of who you're going after -- it's just easier to land local talent. So whoever has the most local talent is going to do better on the recruiting trail. These are seventeen-year-old kids making decisions; to a lot of them proximity to home is a huge benefit. I know absolutely it played a big factor in Suriano's case. He was a lifelong Hawkeye fan, but when it was crunch time he saw PSU winning, and knew he could drive home on weekends. It's doubtful he got more money at Penn State. He also falls into the category of "his parents already spent more money on wrestling than college would have cost", so I don't think scholarship money meant much.

Make no mistake -- the wealth of talent in the Pennsylvania / New Jersey area is helping Penn State, and is likely to do so for years.

 

[Jaysdad7]

I'm sure he got more money at Penn than iowa trust me he did and that why they got him

 

[LaxHawk174]

I don't necessarily agree that there is a huge difference between top 10 and top 20 kids if you are looking at a recruiting class. In weight class rankings, yes, but not overall.

2010 Class
#14 McMullan
#15 Ness
#19 Telford

2011 Class
#15 Dieringer
#16 Green
#18 Gwiazdowski

2012
#11 Realbuto
#13 Richards
#14 Crutchmer
#16 Gilman
#20 Brooks

2013
#12 Clagon
#13 Heil
#19 Abounader

2014
#12 Cortez
#13 Rogers
#14 Stoll
#18 Micic

2015
#11 Hayes
#15 Thomsen
#17 McFadden
#20 Stroker

I was just cherrypicking a few guys, obviously there are some who don't pan out, as well as top 10 recruits who don't pan out. But In my humble opinion, I think any top 25 overall recruit is a very solid get, and the path to building a championship team. In any individual year you could have multiple guys at the same weight class all in the top 10, so maybe someone who is #1 in his weight class, but viewed as a 'weaker' weight by the rankers gets put into the 10-25 range, when he is a bona-fide stud. Obviously most of the studs who are going to be multiple time champs are probably going to be a top 10 recruit, but not always, Ie. Dieringer, Gwiz, Gilman..

 

[Ihawkd9times]

California has a population of over 39 million, But they don't have the wrestling tradition of the Eastern states. Iowa puts out more studs per populous than most states. Pennsylvania has a big population and tradition.

In defense of PA and CA those number can be a bit skewed because not a lot of wrestlers are coming out of Philly. Its a rural sport in PA, esp in western PA.

Same for CA. Not sure if you don't remove LA and SF's population. But overall its still a lot more rural kids in PA.

Same for Ohio really. I don't remember any of those studs being from Cincy or Cleveland.

Regardless it seems its always the blue collar smaller cities like Cedar Rapids or Easton, PA that really produce the gems.

 

[FineMaterial]

I'm sure he got more money at Penn than iowa trust me he did and that why they got him

How did Penn do that? They're an Ivy league school , they can't give scholarships. And why would they give money for Penn State?
But if you're sure............

 

[Jaysdad7]

Come on bro Really if your reading the trend u would know what I am talking about if u don't understand what I'm talking about u shouldn't reply

 

[Jaysdad7]

I'm just saying if u are a top 5 kid u probably should get at least 80 To 90 percent scholarship

 

[Azchief32]

I'm sure he got more money at Penn than iowa trust me he did and that why they got him

How did Penn do that? They're an Ivy league school , they can't give scholarships. And why would they give money for Penn State?
But if you're sure............

Just to be clear Mr.M, this guy is a PSU fan

 

[artradley]

In defense of PA and CA those number can be a bit skewed because not a lot of wrestlers are coming out of Philly. Its a rural sport in PA, esp in western PA.

Same for CA. Not sure if you don't remove LA and SF's population. But overall its still a lot more rural kids in PA.

Same for Ohio really. I don't remember any of those studs being from Cincy or Cleveland.

Regardless it seems its always the blue collar smaller cities like Cedar Rapids or Easton, PA that really produce the gems.

Good point. The important number is how many wrestlers are in the state. In 2014:

Iowa: 6,400
Pennsylvania: 9,800
New Jersey: 9,700
California: 26,000
Ohio: 11,100
Illinois: 15,000

 

[wasdt21]

that was a pennster jays dad

 

[Jaysdad7]

Hahahah Figures don't understand why they are on a Iowa board anyway

 

[pablow]

Good point. The important number is how many wrestlers are in the state. In 2014:

Iowa: 6,400
Pennsylvania: 9,800
New Jersey: 9,700
California: 26,000
Ohio: 11,100
Illinois: 15,000

That's not the most important number. The most important stat is the size of the pool that's feeding the wrestling spots availble. Large population states simply have more candidates to choose from. If California and Wyoming each had a high school participation number of 2,500 wrestlers, according to your theory they should have equal quality. That's absolutely incorrect because percentage of high quality wrestlers increases in proportion to the size of the pool.

 

[pablow]

Hahahah Figures don't understand why they are on a Iowa board anyway

Me either.

 

[artradley]

That's not the most important number. The most important stat is the size of the pool that's feeding the wrestling spots availble. Large population states simply have more candidates to choose from. If California and Wyoming each had a high school participation number of 2,500 wrestlers, according to your theory they should have equal quality. That's absolutely incorrect because percentage of high quality wrestlers increases in proportion to the size of the pool.

I'm not following that logic. The more participants, the more kids you have who will be quality wrestlers. If California and Wyoming both had 2500 wrestlers, I don't understand why you would expect one of them to have more quality wrestlers, simply based on state population. I would think two states with the same number of wrestlers would have a similar number of good wrestlers, until you get to intangibles -- tradition of wrestling in the state, proximity to high quality coaches, etc. Based strictly on metrics I don't get your argument.

 

[pablow]

I'm not following that logic. The more participants, the more kids you have who will be quality wrestlers. If California and Wyoming both had 2500 wrestlers, I don't understand why you would expect one of them to have more quality wrestlers, simply based on state population. I would think two states with the same number of wrestlers would have a similar number of good wrestlers, until you get to intangibles -- tradition of wrestling in the state, proximity to high quality coaches, etc. Based strictly on metrics I don't get your argument.

Well if two high schools both had 15 person basketball teams, and one school had 2,000 students and the other had 200 students wouldn't the percentages be strongly favor of the larger school having the best 15 players? We are not picking randomly, it's competitive!

 

[MVPFAN]

I hear Penn state is giving the kids the really want a good amount of money and that why they land them

They may be, not sure how they are pulling it off though. They may have some guys who deserve a good chunk giving it up or it may be they can get high quality in state guys for little cost and use the money saved on big name out of state guys. They seem to have some way to land a lot more full ride type guys than anyone else.

 

[lookleft goright]

I don't necessarily agree that there is a huge difference between top 10 and top 20 kids if you are looking at a recruiting class. In weight class rankings, yes, but not overall.

2010 Class
#14 McMullan
#15 Ness
#19 Telford

2011 Class
#15 Dieringer
#16 Green
#18 Gwiazdowski

2012
#11 Realbuto
#13 Richards
#14 Crutchmer
#16 Gilman
#20 Brooks

2013
#12 Clagon
#13 Heil
#19 Abounader

2014
#12 Cortez
#13 Rogers
#14 Stoll
#18 Micic

2015
#11 Hayes
#15 Thomsen
#17 McFadden
#20 Stroker

I was just cherrypicking a few guys, obviously there are some who don't pan out, as well as top 10 recruits who don't pan out. But In my humble opinion, I think any top 25 overall recruit is a very solid get, and the path to building a championship team. In any individual year you could have multiple guys at the same weight class all in the top 10, so maybe someone who is #1 in his weight class, but viewed as a 'weaker' weight by the rankers gets put into the 10-25 range, when he is a bona-fide stud. Obviously most of the studs who are going to be multiple time champs are probably going to be a top 10 recruit, but not always, Ie. Dieringer, Gwiz, Gilman..

Are some of you guys are talking about a top 5 guy at his weight and some of you are talking about a top 20 guy pound for pound? I find it hard to believe that Ness was a number 15 guy at his weight class and Deiringer was also a number 15 guy at his weight. I know Cael has been getting a lot of the P4P best in the country like the halls and Suriano. It seems that Iowa is getting some top 30-50 P4P guys and some top 1-5 in their weight class. Am I following the conversation correctly?

 

[Stanley75]

I'm sure he got more money at Penn than iowa trust me he did and that why they got him

Fact or opinion?

 

[Stanley75]

That's not the most important number. The most important stat is the size of the pool that's feeding the wrestling spots availble. Large population states simply have more candidates to choose from. If California and Wyoming each had a high school participation number of 2,500 wrestlers, according to your theory they should have equal quality. That's absolutely incorrect because percentage of high quality wrestlers increases in proportion to the size of the pool.

This is absolutely correct.

 

[letsgohawks44]

Do you speak English??

You're an idiot.

 

[MVPFAN]

Do you speak English??

What language is this? D-bag?

 

[Azchief32]

Do you speak English??

He probably doesn't speak Clown.

 

[MitchL]

It's not a question of who you're going after -- it's just easier to land local talent. So whoever has the most local talent is going to do better on the recruiting trail. These are seventeen-year-old kids making decisions; to a lot of them proximity to home is a huge benefit. I know absolutely it played a big factor in Suriano's case. He was a lifelong Hawkeye fan, but when it was crunch time he saw PSU winning, and knew he could drive home on weekends. It's doubtful he got more money at Penn State. He also falls into the category of "his parents already spent more money on wrestling than college would have cost", so I don't think scholarship money meant much.

Make no mistake -- the wealth of talent in the Pennsylvania / New Jersey area is helping Penn State, and is likely to do so for years.

Having family, high school friends, girl friends, all within driving distance can be HUGE factors to some kids. There are many very good schools that provide excellent training room partners, Post collegiate level wrestlers, and the like. There are only a handful of schools considered elite. Unfortunately for everyone else... PSU has the perfect storm right now.

When Gable coached... everyone knew he was the best. Brands is a very good coach, but he is being compared to a legend.

If, and I mean if, Lee ends up at Iowa... Marinelli and Kem do well next year... Iowa will be in the hunt.