*****Official Cubs 2021 thread*****
- Thread starter QChawks
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This obviously stings -- these guys brought us much joy.
While the Ricketts are imperfect owners, as some have mentioned above, they would have to spend an INSANE amount of money to resign KB/Rizzo/Baez AND be competitive.
The Cubs are about 5th in MLB in revenue (I think), but in order to keep the three above, carry Heyward's contract, and put together a rotation to compete for a World Series, they would need to run a payroll that approaches $300M. No team is doing that anymore as the luxury tax penalties are far more punitive than they were in Steinbrenner's era.
To compete next year, they would keep Hendricks, and have to go out and acquire 3 good FA pitchers + one innings eater, as Alzolay would not be a part of a rotation for a contender.
While I hate to see it, I am happy that Jed did not take any half-measures. He did not allow sentimentality to rope him into 3-4 more years of 82-win baseball. They have completely revamped their organization, and hopefully they will be ready for sustained success starting in 2023.
While the Ricketts are imperfect owners, as some have mentioned above, they would have to spend an INSANE amount of money to resign KB/Rizzo/Baez AND be competitive.
The Cubs are about 5th in MLB in revenue (I think), but in order to keep the three above, carry Heyward's contract, and put together a rotation to compete for a World Series, they would need to run a payroll that approaches $300M. No team is doing that anymore as the luxury tax penalties are far more punitive than they were in Steinbrenner's era.
To compete next year, they would keep Hendricks, and have to go out and acquire 3 good FA pitchers + one innings eater, as Alzolay would not be a part of a rotation for a contender.
While I hate to see it, I am happy that Jed did not take any half-measures. He did not allow sentimentality to rope him into 3-4 more years of 82-win baseball. They have completely revamped their organization, and hopefully they will be ready for sustained success starting in 2023.
Now Beth Mowins is announcing the game
perfect ending to this day 😖
perfect ending to this day 😖
Might have been his accountant telling him about the top tax rate in CA.
Well, then it sounds like they shouldn't have been in position to make a deal for Kimbrel.
Thank God for them there's the Cubs...
I hope the two guys the Cubs got for him turn out a lot better than it seems. The Sox got a lot more than a singles hitter and average middle reliever from us when they dealt us Q.
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If I look at this year in isolation, I don’t have many complaints. Even with the stars, they lost 11 in a row, were inconsistent on offense and showing a lot of the same old things - great highs and then just inexplicable periods of mediocrity. I thought the returns for most of these trades were strong. I like getting Madrigal and they picked up some live arms. I like things I’ve seen from guys like Alcantara, Steele, Thompson, Alzolay, and I think there are some potentially really good players coming on the near horizon.
All that said, this week sucks. I’ve been a Rizzo fan since the early days. I have followed every KB move since the draft and it’s been a hell of a ride. Javy may be the most exciting player I’ve ever seen (and maybe also the most maddening at times). These guys were special and I’ll always love what they gave us from 2015 on. Sucks to see what’s left of the 2016 carcass picked over for parts.
It didn’t have to go this way. This was very much a potential eventuality going all the way back to 2017, but Theo never did much to deviate from path and then the Ricketts eventually cut off the cash flow. I’ll never be able to hate Theo, but he certainly bears a lot of responsibility for the last 24 hours.
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No, they never cut off the cash flow before this year since 2015. Look it up. This isn’t a Ricketts problem, they have given them a top 5 payroll for the last 5 years.
And the Giants got a 2-month rental of a .250 hitter with diminishing power due to repeated shoulder injuries and concussions who drives the ladies wild...
Nick Madrigal was a top 5 draft pick who shot through the minor leagues, is only 24 and has a wRC+ of about 114 (100 is league average) in about a half MLB season total. He came in with an elite hit grade and top-level speed to go with solid defense. We’ll see how the defense pans out, but he’s one of those guys every lineup needs if he continues to hit - and I don’t see any reason to think he won’t. Many of us have complained since Fowler left that there’s no lead off hitter; no place setter. The Cubs now have a couple of those guys. On top of that, they got a live arm in Heuer, who would seem to have some back-end-of-the-pen potential.
I was referring to the 2-3 recent seasons, not total payroll. I’m 100% with you there - the Ricketts have spent right up to (and even a bit over) the luxury tax, but in 2019, it started getting tighter for Theo. I do have concerns with what they did this season and their post-COVID debt squeeze, but if they get back to normal next year, I’d expect them to spend around the cap total, which is why I keep using the $170M to spend number.
They clearly cut off the cash flow coming into this season, due in large part to all the debt they have around Wrigley combined with revenue stream cuts due to COVID. That’s the Darvish move. If they have largely the same off-season, but keep Darvish, it’s a whole different season. Darvish-Hendricks at the top completely changes the rotation and likely would have taken load off the bullpen. The Cubs are likely running with the Crew and adding at least a moderate piece or two at the deadline instead of selling off anything with a pulse.
Well, the Cubs needed a farm system upgrade, and now they've got it. 8 of their top 20 prospects (real time updated) are players they've acquired since the Darvish deal (2 from Darvish, 1 from Chafin, 2 from Rizzo, 1 from Baez, 2 from Bryant). That doesn't include the two young major leaguers they got from the Sox, as well as one of their farmhands who was briefly in the Cubs' top 30 until today's deals. Their top 3 prospects may all start making an impact in the majors next year. The team sure has $ to spend now, and if they do it wisely (particularly on pitching) hopefully the turnaround will be quick.
I actually feel sorry for Cub fans after what happened in the last week. This is the biggest implosion of a MLB lineup I've ever seen. Much worse than what the Florida Marlins did back in the day.
It's got to be depressing to watch mgmt dismantle a team with talent and appear to get so little in return.
Maybe now they can lower the cost of tix and concessions.
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I’ll always cheer for Rizzo (and KB and Javy)…..but if the Yankees actually make the WS, I’ll be seriously torn.
Big Market teams like Yankees in NY and Dodgers
in LA spend big money on their teams.
A Big Market team like Cubs in Chicago refuse to
spend money to make the team better. Instead
they let Darvish, Rizzo, Baez, Kimbrel, Bryant go.
Ricketts does not deserve to have a team in Chicago.
in LA spend big money on their teams.
A Big Market team like Cubs in Chicago refuse to
spend money to make the team better. Instead
they let Darvish, Rizzo, Baez, Kimbrel, Bryant go.
Ricketts does not deserve to have a team in Chicago.
Other than trolling, I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for here. The Cubs made these moves in the last 24 hours because the Cubs never changed course after 2018-2019. The core was always going to get more expensive together - Rizzo, KB, Javy, Schwarber, Almora were always going to hit FA at the same time, but the Cubs made no significant deals along the way, setting this up.
The Cubs could have made no trades and kept all, hoping to extend 1-2 of them, but this was a .500 team without any trades. The last 24 hours has really sucked, but I also remember growing up on the Cubs and watching them fall in love with guys and not be willing to make the hard move to set up a real window of contention. Jed made a gutsy play, we’ll see how it works out.
They’re not ”tossing in the towel” unless they’re non-competitive for the next 2-4 seasons. As mentioned all over this thread, the Cubs have a crap ton of money to spend and some good young players. They have quite a bit of young potential at the low-end of the minors, which could make good off-season trade bait.
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This is such bullshit. The Cubs had a payroll at/over the luxury tax threshold 2015-2020. Darvish got a massive contract in 2019. Kimbrel got a bigger contract than people thought he was worth in 2019. KB made $20M this year.
Don’t give me the “big market teams don’t sell off either” - in 2016, the Yanks waved the white flag and dealt Chapman, Miller and Beltran at the deadline on a team that was, frankly, pretty similar to this Cub team - they could have made a run at the post-season, but assessed where they were and opted to move for the future.
That's an invalid comparison. In no way , shape, or form is this Cub sell off similar to getting rid of Miller and Chapman. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
The only trade that makes sense is dealing Bryant. I'm guessing KB told Hoyer to eff himself after the "seniority" issue on years of service and Hoyer had no options.
Cub fans trying to convince themselves about all the great prospects they got is wishful thinking.
The Cubs were also trading for a #3 with three additional years of control. Madrigal was a Top 50 prospect overall last year. It’s not like they traded Tatis Jr for a washed up James Shields who went 16-35 with a 5.31 ERA the next couple years.
Why is that the only one that made sense? The Cubs weren’t going anywhere this year. Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Pederson, Tepera, Chaffin, and Markasick we’re all FA’s after this year— why not get something for them that would be worth more than a comp pick?
The haul they got for Kimbrel was great….. what does not resigning them get you besides a draft pick?
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For this life long Cubs fan….between Marquee robbing me of every opportunity to watch them and trading away all of this, including a guy who should have been a lifer in Rizzo….I’m about done with this franchise
LaRussa is such a douche. It will be too bad if that roster is denied a WS ring because he thinks it’s 1985.
The Ricketts have owned the team since Oct 09.....they didn't spend Jack on players for the first 5 seasons and of the 12 seasons they've only tried half the time. Will have as many losing seasons as winning seasons after this debacle is over. We are so spoiled
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