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*****Official Cubs 2023 thread*****

But as I talked about this week - what’s the point of a trade? If the Cubs trade Stroman, Gomes, Bellinger and maybe also Smyly, Hendricks, Leiter, Fulmer, Merryweather, then they got into 2024 with more holes than they can dream of filling in an offseason. If you’re going to deal Stroman or Bellinger, you have to get max value.
I don’t think Bellinger re-signs and Stroman will opt-out and you risk getting nothing for either.

As for filling roster spots, by my count, 11 of the 26 players on the current roster weren't on the major league roster at the end of last season (Amaya, Barnhart, Young, Mastrobuoni, Bellinger, Mancini, Taillon, Fulmer, Merryweather, Kay, Palencia...not including Swanson, who's on IL) so I don't think that's a huge concern. I've said this before, the Cubs aren't in a position to get lottery tickets or single A or AA players in return for Stroman for sure, and most likely Bellinger (I think if he gets moved it'll be to the Yankees, but their minor league system is not very strong at the moment). I would hope they get major league-ready players in return, like a 3B or a SP (the Marlins have Meyer and Rogers coming back from injuries, but Stroman would help in the short-term).
 
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But as I talked about this week - what’s the point of a trade? If the Cubs trade Stroman, Gomes, Bellinger and maybe also Smyly, Hendricks, Leiter, Fulmer, Merryweather, then they got into 2024 with more holes than they can dream of filling in an offseason. If you’re going to deal Stroman or Bellinger, you have to get max value.
The point is you have to think you can win the division. The Reds are scorching hot, but remain weak in the rotation. The Brewers are a better team than the Cubs. The wildcard race is probably a pipe dream. Too many teams to get past.
Stroman, Bellinger, and Gomes probably wouldn't be back anyway. Some of the bullpen guys you hold onto and work on deals in the offseason, we aren't talking lockdown closer money for any of them. Every guy listed has had issues over their careers, and have been reclamation projects at some point. Every team works on it's bullpen every offseason. The hope for the Cubs has to be filling the core of the bullpen with homegrown arms, and adding selectively.
 
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The point is you have to think you can win the division. The Reds are scorching hot, but remain weak in the rotation. The Brewers are a better team than the Cubs. The wildcard race is probably a pipe dream. Too many teams to get past.
Stroman, Bellinger, and Gomes probably wouldn't be back anyway. Some of the bullpen guys you hold onto and work on deals in the offseason, we aren't talking lockdown closer money for any of them. Every guy listed has had issues over their careers, and have been reclamation projects at some point. Every team works on it's bullpen every offseason. The hope for the Cubs has to be filling the core of the bullpen with homegrown arms, and adding selectively.
It’s really going to be a challenging deadline. There is a cost to trading, just as there’s a cost to having those guys walk for nothing. If Stroman gets traded, he will likely be THE best starter on the market…but the Cubs don’t have to trade, so if they move him, it should be for multiple ML-ready or very near ML-ready players. If you don’t get that return, don’t trade him. Same for Bellinger. Gomes has a team option for 2024 ($6.5M against the CBT or a $1M buyout) - if you plan to compete in 2024, I think you bring him back as Amaya’s backup. We’ll see about Barnhart, but the emergence of Amaya might mean the Cubs eat his $3.25M for next year.

As for thinking you can win the division, I think there’s still a path there. I’m actually not convinced the Cubs are worse than the Brewers. I also don’t trust the Brewers to not sell at the deadline (they traded Hader last year while leading the division). Cubs certainly aren’t the favorite from here, but the schedule lightens up in the 2nd half (that might not be good for the Cubs as it seems they play better against better teams), so dealing the best hitter and the 2nd best starter likely takes any chance out of play.

This team still needs at least one major bat in the middle of the lineup, to not be an offensive black hole at 1B & 3B and improve the pen. The Cubs would need those upgrades right now for 2024. If you don’t extend Stroman, then you also need to add a top line starting pitcher. I think there’s a solid deal to be had with Stroman. I take him at face value that he doesn’t want to leave. He pitches very well at Wrigley and he’ll continue to have an excellent defense up the middle for the next several years. I think he’s actually going to age ok over 3-4 more years and as he hits the age curve and goes from being a #2 to a #4, hopefully the Cubs have other young starters moving up the rotation.

I have to think Jed’s seat starts getting hot soon, too. I know it’s popularly cynical to say that Ricketts doesn’t care about winning, but Ricketts does care about money. They’ve been missing revenue targets on Marquee from the beginning and are now launching Marquee direct to consumers. They also built the sports book and own a crap ton of property around Wrigley. The better the Cubs are, the more those other things hit targets. Also, even if Tom never spends beyond what they spent from 2016-2020, that’s enough to win if you spend it reasonably well. Tom may not want to be Steve Cohen, but there’s no chance he wants to put out a competitive payroll and lose.
 
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It’s really going to be a challenging deadline. There is a cost to trading, just as there’s a cost to having those guys walk for nothing. If Stroman gets traded, he will likely be THE best starter on the market…but the Cubs don’t have to trade, so if they move him, it should be for multiple ML-ready or very near ML-ready players. If you don’t get that return, don’t trade him. Same for Bellinger. Gomes has a team option for 2024 ($6.5M against the CBT or a $1M buyout) - if you plan to compete in 2024, I think you bring him back as Amaya’s backup. We’ll see about Barnhart, but the emergence of Amaya might mean the Cubs eat his $3.25M for next year.

As for thinking you can win the division, I think there’s still a path there. I’m actually not convinced the Cubs are worse than the Brewers. I also don’t trust the Brewers to not sell at the deadline (they traded Hader last year while leading the division). Cubs certainly aren’t the favorite from here, but the schedule lightens up in the 2nd half (that might not be good for the Cubs as it seems they play better against better teams), so dealing the best hitter and the 2nd best starter likely takes any chance out of play.

This team still needs at least one major bat in the middle of the lineup, to not be an offensive black hole at 1B & 3B and improve the pen. The Cubs would need those upgrades right now for 2024. If you don’t extend Stroman, then you also need to add a top line starting pitcher. I think there’s a solid deal to be had with Stroman. I take him at face value that he doesn’t want to leave. He pitches very well at Wrigley and he’ll continue to have an excellent defense up the middle for the next several years. I think he’s actually going to age ok over 3-4 more years and as he hits the age curve and goes from being a #2 to a #4, hopefully the Cubs have other young starters moving up the rotation.

I have to think Jed’s seat starts getting hot soon, too. I know it’s popularly cynical to say that Ricketts doesn’t care about winning, but Ricketts does care about money. They’ve been missing revenue targets on Marquee from the beginning and are now launching Marquee direct to consumers. They also built the sports book and own a crap ton of property around Wrigley. The better the Cubs are, the more those other things hit targets. Also, even if Tom never spends beyond what they spent from 2016-2020, that’s enough to win if you spend it reasonably well. Tom may not want to be Steve Cohen, but there’s no chance he wants to put out a competitive payroll and lose.
I might be confused on the catcher situation, but I thought Barnhart's contract is even worse because there isn't a buyout, only a player option, which I can't see him rejecting.
Stroman is going to walk. He and the Cubs went into this contract open eyed knowing he could go after two seasons by betting on himself. That was a good bet barring a second half implosion. If Stroman wants three more years, fine. Make a deal. Five, hard pass.
I always have confidence in this organization finding scrap heap arms for the bullpen.
 
I might be confused on the catcher situation, but I thought Barnhart's contract is even worse because there isn't a buyout, only a player option, which I can't see him rejecting.
Stroman is going to walk. He and the Cubs went into this contract open eyed knowing he could go after two seasons by betting on himself. That was a good bet barring a second half implosion. If Stroman wants three more years, fine. Make a deal. Five, hard pass.
I always have confidence in this organization finding scrap heap arms for the bullpen.
Depends on what you see as worse/better for Barnhart. He does have a player option and he’s certainly going to take it (if he’s still on the team), but his per year cost is $3.25M, so while the Cubs would have to pay out the 2024 money, it’s not exactly like they’re eating Jason Heyward money here.

I’ll be surprised if Stroman gets 5 years anywhere. I think the best bet is 3-4 years at $25-27M per year. Short of Ohtani or Nola, hard to see the Cubs doing much better on a per dollar basis anywhere else this offseason with a free agent and Stro would have the added benefit of needing no adjustments to move and get started in Chicago. My prediction remains that the Cubs won’t trade him and will extend him before he actually hits the open market.
 
Depends on what you see as worse/better for Barnhart. He does have a player option and he’s certainly going to take it (if he’s still on the team), but his per year cost is $3.25M, so while the Cubs would have to pay out the 2024 money, it’s not exactly like they’re eating Jason Heyward money here.

I’ll be surprised if Stroman gets 5 years anywhere. I think the best bet is 3-4 years at $25-27M per year. Short of Ohtani or Nola, hard to see the Cubs doing much better on a per dollar basis anywhere else this offseason with a free agent and Stro would have the added benefit of needing no adjustments to move and get started in Chicago. My prediction remains that the Cubs won’t trade him and will extend him before he actually hits the open market.
I’d trade him, then re sign him.
 
That strategy often doesn’t work out.
I understand that, but we could overpay and make it happen. I’m on record as thinking we were a playoff team this year, and do too close losses, I just don’t see it now. The Cubs could make several trades for near ready studs. Do that, buy a couple pitchers and roll with it
 
I understand that, but we could overpay and make it happen. I’m on record as thinking we were a playoff team this year, and do too close losses, I just don’t see it now. The Cubs could make several trades for near ready studs. Do that, buy a couple pitchers and roll with it
I guess we’ll see what the market is. I was surprised the Royals didn’t get more for Chapman. On the whole, teams are hugging their prospects more than ever before, so trading at the deadline is getting to be a little less lucrative. It would have to be a really good haul for me to do that and give some other team exclusive negotiating rights with Stroman.
 
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I guess we’ll see what the market is. I was surprised the Royals didn’t get more for Chapman. On the whole, teams are hugging their prospects more than ever before, so trading at the deadline is getting to be a little less lucrative. It would have to be a really good haul for me to do that and give some other team exclusive negotiating rights with Stroman.
This. Obviously if some team is willing to give us the #20 and #80 prospect in all of baseball for Stro it makes sense, but lately you're lucky to get the #80 prospect for Stro and maybe the #180 prospect for Belly.
 
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They need to either play Amaya or send him down to get reps. No reason not to be DHing or catching him tonight. I know lefties hit Bello better than righties, but not sure how much platoon advantage Barnhart brings.
To have Mastrobuoni and Barnhart hitting 8 and 9 doesn't spark much hope for the bottom of the lineup tonight, which actually has been pretty good overall this season. Hoerner has the most RBIs on the team and most of those came from bottom of the order hitters.
 
Looking at the radar, this game seems destined for a rain delay. Hope Assad will be on his game if needed.
 
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I kind of have the game on in the background, but thought I heard Boog say the Cubs 3-5 hitters have a collective SLG of .387 this year. Did anyone else hear that? Can that be right???
 
Nice to see bellinger increase his trade value
What a terrible lineup the Cubs are currently putting on the field. Hoerner, Bellinger, and Morel are the only 3 MLB starter caliber hitters in tonight's lineup. Suzuki and Happ (the Cubs 3rd and 4th place hitters!????) are role players, IMO, and the rest of tonight's lineup are backups at best. Why didn't Ross PH for Mastrobuoni and Barnhart in the ninth when there was still a chance? The Cubs may as well DFA Mastro and put Bote back on the 40 man roster and call him up. At least he has had some ML success. Call up Velazquez and put him in RF. He will run into the occasional HR. May as well put Happ in the lead off spot as he does draw a fair enough amount of walks and hits the occasional double.

Too many holes in the everyday lineup right now. They only have 3-4 everyday players and Bellinger will be gone if not by the trade deadline at least at the end of the season.

I did see Canario started for Iowa tonight and went 2-5 with a run and an RBI. Maybe he will be ready by sometime next year?

End of rant.
 
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The one thing I’ll say for Mastrobuoni is that he’s only up because of the injuries to Swanson & Madrigal. They can make other moves, but the only other option at 3B tonight was Wisdom, who was likely to get eaten up by Bello, though Mastro’s 0-fer maybe makes that irrelevant. They need to lay out their best 9 and play that most of the time with some adjustment for splits. I’d also send Young down for Mervis now. I wouldn’t expect 40-man moves not involving trades until after the deadline.
 
Belly staying hot with a grand slam and Cubbies up 6-0 after batting around in the 3rd! Hopefully we aren't selling but if Belly keeps this up we might be able to get a very low end or borderline top 100 prospect for him.
 
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Lots of talk of trading Bellinger. I guess he's expected to decline the $12M mutual option for next season? But I'm curious as to who the Cubs envision holding down CF next year if they have a competitive season. Tauchman has been effective but doesn't seem to be a long-term solution; and PCA is at least a year away. If Velazquez isn't ready to be full-time Major League CF in '24, getting rid of Belly will leave yet another huge hole to fill.
 
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Signing Bellinger is something they absolutely should do. Bellinger likely won’t do an in-season extension, Boras clients rarely do, and he almost certainly will decline the option and hit FA…but then the Cubs should sign him.
 
I don’t see any way Bellinger is back next season and I hope he gets traded away. I wouldn’t rule out PCA being the CFer next year. There are plenty of one-year fill ins that will be free agents like Kiermeier, McCutchen, and Duvall that they could sign. But I hope it’s PCA, it would be nice to see some of those trade acquisitions come up and make significant contributions.
 
I don’t see any way Bellinger is back next season and I hope he gets traded away. I wouldn’t rule out PCA being the CFer next year. There are plenty of one-year fill ins that will be free agents like Kiermeier, McCutchen, and Duvall that they could sign. But I hope it’s PCA, it would be nice to see some of those trade acquisitions come up and make significant contributions.
PCA may be ready, but Bellinger can play all 3 OF spots and first base. He’s the perfect guy to float around. Why don’t you see any way Bellinger is back? The Cubs have a ton of money coming off the books and are going to spend on someone. Sign Bellinger & Stroman and then go add more.
 
PCA may be ready, but Bellinger can play all 3 OF spots and first base. He’s the perfect guy to float around. Why don’t you see any way Bellinger is back? The Cubs have a ton of money coming off the books and are going to spend on someone. Sign Bellinger & Stroman and then go add more.
They’ve committed to Happ and Suzuki, unless you are going to make one of them the DH, there’s no room because when PCA is ready, he’ll play everyday. I’m fine with making Bellinger the everyday 1B, but I don’t see that happening. Plus, he is going to cost way more than what he’s making now. I think they’ll trade him and Stroman at the deadline.
 
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