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**** Official Israel War thread****

binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
This.

I think the most likely reason to delay Israel is to get sufficient forces in the area to deter Iran and it's proxies from going all in....

I think it's prudent if that's the case.

On a side note...

www.reuters.com

China, Iran call for Iran sanctions to be lifted; Xi to visit

China's President Xi Jinping and his Iranian counterpart, Ebrahim Raisi, called on Thursday for the lifting of sanctions on Iran as an integral part of a stalled international agreement on its nuclear programme.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Here's a WW3 scenario for you. What if China is instigating all the current events?

US drawing down it's munitions supplies supporting Ukraine/Israel. Get the US to commit forces to the ME. Get Iran to go "all in" and the US gets involved. US commits more naval/air assets...

Then go after Taiwan.

We'd be stretched pretty thin in that scenario.
Click to expand...
Honestly, if I were China, I'd probably just sit tight and say nice things about peace. Before too long, what most of the world will see is that pretty much every so-called "power" is at war...except China, who will love bomb them with moon cakes and aid as the "peaceful" partner.
 
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Apparently Hamas was promising money and an apartment in Gaza for those that that took hostages

So, about those apartments…..
 
Aardvark86 said:
Honestly, if I were China, I'd probably just sit tight and say nice things about peace. Before too long, what most of the world will see is that pretty much every so-called "power" is at war...except China, who will love bomb them with moon cakes and aid as the "peaceful" partner.
Click to expand...
Definitely a possibility.

The thing I keep thinking about is...what was the Hamas objective with the attack? The only answer I can come up with.....it was to illicit a major Israeli response. Why?

Why bring on the possible destruction of your organization in Gaza in this way?

Just makes me think there are other shoes to drop once Israel is committed...which is probably why we want them to hold off.

I don't remember a dicier situation in my lifetime.
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Definitely a possibility.

The thing I keep thinking about is...what was the Hamas objective with the attack? The only answer I can come up with.....it was to illicit a major Israeli response. Why?

Why bring on the possible destruction of your organization in Gaza in this way?

Just makes me think there are other shoes to drop once Israel is committed...which is probably why we want them to hold off.

I don't remember a dicier situation in my lifetime.
Click to expand...
oh, i don't think it's so complicated that you need to think about china. it was iran, trying to preclude saudi normalization. And that is in hamas' interest (or at least the risk) because if the PA is on the normalization side, the ability to play each other off is diminished, and ISR can focus on you more specifically. now to be clear, i think they miscalculated just how dramatic the response would be, so they may have precluded saudi normalization while signing their death warrant
 
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torbee said:
Tough but important and sobering read:

View embedded media
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Thanks Torbee, it’s very important for people to read stuff like this. If you are Israel you have to show no mercy to these cowards as it seems this delusion runs deep. Also people have to understand how defensive a Jewish state has to be when something horrific happens like this. It’s unfathomable the stories I have read
 
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BrunoMars420 said:
Thanks Torbee, it’s very important for people to read stuff like this. If you are Israel you have to show no mercy to these cowards as it seems this delusion runs deep. Also people have to understand how defensive a Jewish state has to be when something horrific happens like this. It’s unfathomable the stories I have read
Click to expand...
To be clear, I am for a two-state solution, I think Israel's policy towards Gaza is morally wrong and counterproductive and that the IDF needs to as best it can take the high road in avoiding civilian casualties.

That said, anyone finding moral equivalency between the IDF tactics and Hamas tactics is either incredibly stupid or morally bankrupt.
 
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torbee said:
To be clear, I am for a two-state solution, I think Israel's policy towards Gaza is morally wrong and counterproductive and that the IDF needs to as best it can take the high road in avoiding civilian casualties.

That said, anyone finding moral equivalency between the IDF tactics and Hamas tactics is either incredibly stupid or morally bankrupt.
Click to expand...
I agree on a "two state" solution but I'm not sure there's anyone to bargain with on the Palestinian side at the moment or when bibi gets tossed.

Even if a new Israeli government was willing after this is all over...who do they bargain with?
 
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torbee said:
To be clear, I am for a two-state solution, I think Israel's policy towards Gaza is morally wrong and counterproductive and that the IDF needs to as best it can take the high road in avoiding civilian casualties.

That said, anyone finding moral equivalency between the IDF tactics and Hamas tactics is either incredibly stupid or morally bankrupt.
Click to expand...

Everyone is for a two-state solutions expect for who?
 
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torbee said:
To be clear, I am for a two-state solution, I think Israel's policy towards Gaza is morally wrong and counterproductive and that the IDF needs to as best it can take the high road in avoiding civilian casualties.

That said, anyone finding moral equivalency between the IDF tactics and Hamas tactics is either incredibly stupid or morally bankrupt.
Click to expand...
I think most of the world outside the Middle East wants a two-state solution but that will never happen. We are living through the boiling point of the culmination of the history of this area with no end in sight until 1 of 2 things happen and they are both going to lead to a lot of deaths.

Bibi is holding back the military (who are pissed at this) probably because of what the US is trying to do on the ground and humanitarian aid. I have a feeling that everyone knows that once they start that invasion it is going to be complete annihilation of Gaza because they are ready to annihilate the people that did this to them. And on other side the people that did this want to wipe Israel off the map. It’s going to be horrible in so many ways
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
I agree on a "two state" solution but I'm not sure there's anyone to bargain with on the Palestinian side at the moment or when bibi gets tossed.

Even if a new Israeli government was willing after this is all over...who do they bargain with?
Click to expand...
From what I’ve gathered from this is Biden said that the reason Hamas aka Iran did this is because the Saudis were about to push for peace with Israel. The bargaining chip is all but gone now
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Definitely a possibility.
The thing I keep thinking about is...what was the Hamas objective with the attack? The only answer I can come up with.....it was to illicit a major Israeli response. Why?
Why bring on the possible destruction of your organization in Gaza in this way?
Just makes me think there are other shoes to drop once Israel is committed...which is probably why we want them to hold off.
I don't remember a dicier situation in my lifetime.
Click to expand...
I think you're right that they want to drag Israel into a fight. When Israel last went into Lebanon after Hezbollah it didn't go real well for Israel.
Hamas wants to drag Israel into a knife fight so they can get some cuts.

There is also religiously zealotry at play, so ultimately reason is off the table.
 
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The Pentagon revealed in a late Tuesday statement that in just the past week, US and coalition forces have been attacked at least ten times in Iraq, as well as three times in Syria "via a mix of one way attack drones and rockets," according to Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, speaking to NBC.

But the real bombshell development, which Biden's defense officials have apparently sat on for several days, is that some 24 US personnel were wounded in the attacks. According to the NBC statement:

Two dozen American military personnel were wounded last week in a series of drone attacks at American bases in Iraq and Syria, U.S. Central Command told NBC News on Tuesday.
The Pentagon confirmed the attacks last week, but the number of U.S. casualties has not been previously disclosed.
Click to expand...
 

Egypt official tells Europe to take in 1m Gazans if ‘you care about human rights so much’​


A senior Egyptian official has reportedly mockingly demanded that Europe take in one million Gazan refugees if it cares “about human rights so much”, as Cairo continues to grow ever more frustrated with pressure to open its border crossing with the besieged Gaza Strip and take in fleeing Palestinians.

According to the Financial Times, an anonymous European official was informed of Egypt’s frustration with the European and Western nations’ insistence on accepting refugees waiting at the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border. “You want us to take one million people?” an unnamed senior Egyptian official asked him. “Well, I am going to send them to Europe. You care about human rights so much – well, you take them.”

The European official stressed to the paper that the “Egyptians are really, really angry” at the pressure on them to open the border crossing and take in the roughly one million Gazans attempting to seek refuge from Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the besieged land strip.

One of Israel’s key aims in the intensification of its bombardment of Gaza and its people is to push Palestinians in the Strip further to the south to the Rafah border in order to force them into exile within Egypt’s Sinai desert.

Cairo has, so far, resisted these efforts by reinforcing its border with concrete blocks. Although it has attempted to claim good intentions such as not wanting to see the Palestinians further displaced from their land, the Egyptian government’s main reasoning is its fear that the longer Israel’s assault on Gaza continues, the more Egypt will face pressure to accept an inflow of refugees and the economic burden that comes with them.

If Palestinians are eventually allowed to cross the Egypt-Gaza border, there is reportedly the real possibility that they would be allowed only as far as the 8.5-mile buffer zone in Rafah, meaning they could be trapped in a state of limbo.
 
seminole97 said:

Egypt official tells Europe to take in 1m Gazans if ‘you care about human rights so much’​


A senior Egyptian official has reportedly mockingly demanded that Europe take in one million Gazan refugees if it cares “about human rights so much”, as Cairo continues to grow ever more frustrated with pressure to open its border crossing with the besieged Gaza Strip and take in fleeing Palestinians.

According to the Financial Times, an anonymous European official was informed of Egypt’s frustration with the European and Western nations’ insistence on accepting refugees waiting at the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border. “You want us to take one million people?” an unnamed senior Egyptian official asked him. “Well, I am going to send them to Europe. You care about human rights so much – well, you take them.”

The European official stressed to the paper that the “Egyptians are really, really angry” at the pressure on them to open the border crossing and take in the roughly one million Gazans attempting to seek refuge from Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the besieged land strip.

One of Israel’s key aims in the intensification of its bombardment of Gaza and its people is to push Palestinians in the Strip further to the south to the Rafah border in order to force them into exile within Egypt’s Sinai desert.

Cairo has, so far, resisted these efforts by reinforcing its border with concrete blocks. Although it has attempted to claim good intentions such as not wanting to see the Palestinians further displaced from their land, the Egyptian government’s main reasoning is its fear that the longer Israel’s assault on Gaza continues, the more Egypt will face pressure to accept an inflow of refugees and the economic burden that comes with them.

If Palestinians are eventually allowed to cross the Egypt-Gaza border, there is reportedly the real possibility that they would be allowed only as far as the 8.5-mile buffer zone in Rafah, meaning they could be trapped in a state of limbo.
Click to expand...
Egypt doesn't want an influx of Muslim Brotherhood folks....they've had bad experiences with them.
 
seminole97 said:

Egypt official tells Europe to take in 1m Gazans if ‘you care about human rights so much’​


A senior Egyptian official has reportedly mockingly demanded that Europe take in one million Gazan refugees if it cares “about human rights so much”, as Cairo continues to grow ever more frustrated with pressure to open its border crossing with the besieged Gaza Strip and take in fleeing Palestinians.

According to the Financial Times, an anonymous European official was informed of Egypt’s frustration with the European and Western nations’ insistence on accepting refugees waiting at the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border. “You want us to take one million people?” an unnamed senior Egyptian official asked him. “Well, I am going to send them to Europe. You care about human rights so much – well, you take them.”

The European official stressed to the paper that the “Egyptians are really, really angry” at the pressure on them to open the border crossing and take in the roughly one million Gazans attempting to seek refuge from Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the besieged land strip.

One of Israel’s key aims in the intensification of its bombardment of Gaza and its people is to push Palestinians in the Strip further to the south to the Rafah border in order to force them into exile within Egypt’s Sinai desert.

Cairo has, so far, resisted these efforts by reinforcing its border with concrete blocks. Although it has attempted to claim good intentions such as not wanting to see the Palestinians further displaced from their land, the Egyptian government’s main reasoning is its fear that the longer Israel’s assault on Gaza continues, the more Egypt will face pressure to accept an inflow of refugees and the economic burden that comes with them.

If Palestinians are eventually allowed to cross the Egypt-Gaza border, there is reportedly the real possibility that they would be allowed only as far as the 8.5-mile buffer zone in Rafah, meaning they could be trapped in a state of limbo.
Click to expand...
Europe would be idiots to take in the Palestinians. It would change life on that continent forever.

Iran should take them, they provoked this.
 
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www.france24.com

Erdogan says cancelling plans to visit Israel

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday he was cancelling plans to visit Israel because of its "inhumane" war against Hamas militants in Gaza.
www.france24.com www.france24.com

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday he was cancelling plans to visit Israel because of its "inhumane" war against Hamas militants in Gaza.

"We had a project to go to Israel, but it was cancelled, we will not go," Erdogan told ruling party lawmakers in parliament, adding that he viewed Hamas as "liberators" fighting for their own land.
 
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Is it my imagination or has the UN relief organization been on their last day of fuel for about a week now?

I get that it's sort of their job to do everything they can to minimize war and its detritus, and god love 'em for having people who've made the ultimate sacrifice while in harm's way, but if you want to be credible, be credible.
 
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Formerly Rockymtnole said:
I can’t imagine this war will have much support after the first few American service members get killed.
Click to expand...
Support for Israel is shaping up to be a critical issue for evangelicals in Iowa. This will create a footrace among Republican primary candidates to support Israel. Remember what happened to Trump when he appeared to be squishy on supporting Israel last week? He got hammered.
https://apnews.com/article/evangelicals-iowa-israel-christians-bcfac5d77dd90e733c58d3c7242c3185
 
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Aardvark86 said:
oh, i don't think it's so complicated that you need to think about china. it was iran, trying to preclude saudi normalization. And that is in hamas' interest (or at least the risk) because if the PA is on the normalization side, the ability to play each other off is diminished, and ISR can focus on you more specifically. now to be clear, i think they miscalculated just how dramatic the response would be, so they may have precluded saudi normalization while signing their death warrant
Click to expand...
Good thoughts. I will add, I think Hamas was more "successful", than they ever could have dreamed. The stories drifting out so far show that the Israeli response was so slow that Hamas was able to redo their plans on the fly. They only planned to take a few hostages back to Gaza, but wound up with 200. The bulk of the plan was to hold in Israel and hold a series of bloody standoffs with the IDF.
The carnage was so great in Israel, and the large number of hostages has inflamed passions in Israel and the West far beyond what Hamas and Iran anticipated.
 
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It's apparent that the goal now is to drag the US into this as the proxies attack last US forces from multiple angles.
 
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Leader of Lebanon’s Hezbollah holds talks with senior Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad figures​


apnews.com

Leader of Lebanon's Hezbollah holds talks with senior Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad figures

The leader of Lebanon’s Hezbollah group has met with top Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad officials.
apnews.com apnews.com

skynews-sayyed-hassan-sayyed-hassan-nasrallah_6334942.jpg
 
The Hamas caucus

Nine Democrats opposed the resolution: Reps. Jamaal Bowman (N.Y.), André Carson (Ind.), Cori Bush (Mo.), Al Green (Texas), Summer Lee (Pa.), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Ilhan Omar (Minn.), Delia Ramirez (Ill.) and Rashida Tlaib (Mich.). Republican Rep. Thomas Massie (Ky.) joined them.

thehill.com

House approves resolution backing Israel in first move by new Speaker

Editor’s note: This story has been updated to correct the state Democratic Rep. Pramila Jayapal (Wash.) represents. We regret the error. The House approved a resolution backing Israel and con…
thehill.com
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
The Hamas caucus

Nine Democrats opposed the resolution: Reps. Jamaal Bowman (N.Y.), André Carson (Ind.), Cori Bush (Mo.), Al Green (Texas), Summer Lee (Pa.), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Ilhan Omar (Minn.), Delia Ramirez (Ill.) and Rashida Tlaib (Mich.). Republican Rep. Thomas Massie (Ky.) joined them.

thehill.com

House approves resolution backing Israel in first move by new Speaker

Editor’s note: This story has been updated to correct the state Democratic Rep. Pramila Jayapal (Wash.) represents. We regret the error. The House approved a resolution backing Israel and con…
thehill.com
Click to expand...
Despicable.
 
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