**** Official Israel War thread****
- Thread starter EagleHawk
- Start date
I bet this was an uncomfortable thing for Hamas to hear
www.yahoo.com
Iran tells Hamas it will not enter the war with Israel
Iran’s supreme leader told the head of Hamas in a face-to-face meeting in Tehran that his country would not enter the war with Israel and accused the terror group of not giving any prior warning of the Oct 7 attacks.
Some people are dumb...really this is a post you make on Twitter?
One quick search finds a coin dealer with coins with Jewish writing from 1900 years earlier
One quick search finds a coin dealer with coins with Jewish writing from 1900 years earlier
Please expand on that? By whom? Israel has committed no war crimes. If that is what you are alleging you are on the wrong side of this war.
It’s fine to feel for the plight of the Gazan citizens. I feel for them as well.
This could all be over if Hamas would surrender and face a tribunal for their deliberate targeting and slaughter of civilians. They need to turn over all hostages still alive and acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.
Their attack on Oct 7th and their commission of war crime after war crime is not up for debate. Taking of hostages. Holding weapons and military personnel in schools and hospitals.
This framing of Israel as the criminal is not only wrong but vile. You disgust me. There is only one side to be on here. Stand for peace by demanding that Hamas put down their weapons. Demand Hamas’ leadership come back from Gaza. Demand the return of hostages. That is who we should be making demands of. Israel needs to keep the screws on and strangle the will of Hamas. Radical Islam respects one thing and one thing only. Strength and power. There is no room for weak knees by the west. If we allow this tragedy to occur without requisite retribution then we are all at risk.
I’m dead serious. I’d frankly be for a war against Iran. Right now. The future of the west frankly relies on it IMO. I know that isn’t shared by many but a confrontation with them is inevitable.
I disgust you eh? After questioning me before I can answer.
Yep, you would fit in well in the middle east.
Yeah ok. I may have jumped to conclusions. Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize sincerely. I guess I was presuming based on prior posts by you . Are you speaking of Israel or Hamas?
Which war crimes by Israel? Be specific. As an attorney, cite relevant law.
You really need me to list them? Just take a few steps back and look at the proportionality of it. Food, water, hospitals?
Both sides have blood on their hands. Its the game that never ends.
Hence why I think it is stupid for us to get involved.
IMO, the only way one can make any sort of a case against Israel is if you already harbor anti-Israel bias. Because the only thing one can point to here would be the civilian deaths. Which I suspect are inflated. These are 100% the fault of Hamas. Israel has done everything in their power to minimize them. But military targets are such and the goals of Israel to finish this war as soon as possible with 100% victory, is the best thing for civilians in all sides at the end of the day.
Hamas has embedded itself within the citizenry on purpose. Using the Wests fears of excess civilian deaths as a weapon via the media.
War takes guts and resolve. And if you feel Israel has committed crimes here, you have neither.
Hamas has embedded itself within the citizenry on purpose. Using the Wests fears of excess civilian deaths as a weapon via the media.
War takes guts and resolve. And if you feel Israel has committed crimes here, you have neither.
Proportionality? We would have proportionality if Hamas would step out of their rat holes and fight on the field of battle. In the open. Like men.
The reason Israel has turned Gaza into rubble is bc Hamas has tunneled itself under all the civilian structure. Rooting out Hamas, which is the moral responsibility of Israel to its people, requires destruction of tunnels and positions of counter attack. This is an urban war and that reality makes any real proportionality impossible while attempting to win. Winning is the answer.
Any enemy that freely admits they desire the destruction of a group of people over a peaceful settlement and value death more than life needs to be introduced to death then. I’m not speaking about civilians. BToo bad the rest of the Arab world hasn’t stepped up and demanded Hamas’ surrender, you know, in the interest of peace. Or organized an evacuation corridor to Egypt and relocation and subsidization of refugees. The UN could do the same. All we have from either is a demand for a ceasefire. Non starter. If the UN wanted refugee flights out of Gaza or Egypt to relocate civilians into tents in Egypt or elsewhere in certain Israel would cooperate.
Once this is over, Gaza’s only option is to rid itself of radicals and form a government bent on peace. Choose co-existence. Choose prosperity. Choose democracy. That’s the only way.
I honestly can’t believe anyone would take the side of Hamas. I really can’t. This war is just as morally justified as WW2 imo.
If you think I'm an anti-semite, you would be wrong.
Killing of citizens by both sides creates another generation of hate.
Hamas is extremist. The Israelis' government is as well.
No clean hands
Israel brings in food. Hamas takes it. Israel brings in gas. Hamas doesn’t allow it to get to the hospital. Israel creates a path to escape. Hsmas closes it.
Open your eyes. You are being duped.
Open your eyes. You are being duped.
Israel is doing what any country would. Under no scenario is Israel extreme. They have been targeted for decades based on a false premise and attacked by an enemy that will only be satisfied with the destruction of Israel. They say as much. You should listen to them when they speak and believe what they say. The time has come for strength to win the day. Israel didn’t want this war. But it needs to finish it.
The generational hate story stops when ALL sides want peace.
As an attorney you should understand better than most. More often than not, there aren’t two sides in criminal action. One side is a victim and the other the aggressor.
This idea that there are two sides in this simply betrays the fact that you don’t understand this conflict in any real way bc there aren’t two sides in this. The moment Hamas and Gaza want peace, peace they will have. I’m 100% convinced of this. So no, not two sides.
I can understand both sides' positions. That is why I am a good attorney. I'm not blinded by false equivalencies.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, no doubt. I don't support a damn thing they have done. But to act like Israel has clean hands is ignorant IMHO
Hamas command centre, weapons found at Gaza hospital, Israeli military says
Israeli troops found a command centre and weapons and combat gear belonging to Palestinian Hamas militants in Gaza's biggest hospital on Wednesday, Israel's military said, in a campaign that stoked global alarm over the fate of civilians inside.
Hamas command centre, weapons found at Gaza hospital, Israeli military says
Israeli troops found a command centre and weapons and combat gear belonging to Palestinian Hamas militants in Gaza's biggest hospital on Wednesday, Israel's military said, in a campaign that stoked global alarm over the fate of civilians inside.www.reuters.com
Yeah, I watched the video. Clearly a questionable seige by IDF. But I have no doubt that it is going on.
The thing is, if you want to take a higher moral ground, you still let people be buried.
Death toll is 10 to 1 at this point. Stop the bloodshed
That is nice and good. However, having lived over in the Middle-East for a year. I can cut through the bullshit on both sides.
There will never be peace in the middle east.
Candidly, I tend to think 10:1 probably understates it but either way, I actually think that ratio implies judiciousness rather than recklessness in a territory of several million people and given the asymmetrical nature of the armies.
In war there will always be tactical violations of the norms, and I’m sure there have been here. But I tend to think that at the macro level, Israel is trying to be focused.
It’s fine (indeed, I’d expect nothing less) to despair over the slaughter and destruction that occurs in a protracted conflict, both here and in Ukraine. But this conflict isn’t any more or less legal or ethical than any other conflict. It’s just war.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
Love me some John Oliver and overall I thought he did an ok job in this piece up to his conclusion. I too wish for peace and hope that Israel will do everything in its power to minimize civilian casualties. But I would rebut some of his points which lead me to a different path towards peace than Oliver.
First, his argument that Gazans have no culpability for Hamas is flawed. The adult population at the time of the Gaza election, and ever since, outnumbered Hamas by a factor of 20:1. So while he is right that half the population wasn’t born prior to the last election, why didn’t the 20x majority that was born do something besides complaining about it in that intervening time? At 20:1 Gaza citizens could have taken up arms against an oppressive terror regime. They could have mobilized a campaign of dissent. They could have conducted mass worker strikes demanding an election. They could have collectively called on the UN or Muslim Allies to help them remove the Hamas shitstain from Gaza. Certainly there were some voices of dissent, but not many and not coordinated in a way that would lead to change. The people of Gaza have more than 0% culpability in allowing Hamas to stay in power. By the way I feel the same about Israel. As a country they are culpable for keeping Netanyahu and his oppressive policies in place. If enough people voted that asshole out then we would possibly have a path to peace. By allowing far right voices a place in power the nation of Israel has contributed to the climate of hopelessness in Gaza.
Second, his notion that we should have a ceasefire and peace talks. Talks with whom exactly? Hamas? I think even the most far left among us would acknowledge that Hamas’ leadership cannot be trusted. So who? The Palestinian Authority doesn’t represent Gaza after all. Until Hamas is removed, talks are simply naive because Hamas won’t honor them. So Hamas must be removed for there to be peace. A ceasefire now would do nothing to change the power in Gaza as the 20:1 majority is simply not capable of making that change.
How do you remove an insidious organization like Hamas? One that takes hostages, uses human shields, stores weapons in hospitals? An organization dedicated to the complete eradication of your people? You unfortunately have to root them out - violently. Yes violence begets violence. But inaction in this circumstance also begets violence. Regardless of my complete distaste for Bibbi, Israel MUST eliminate Hamas. They should remove Netanyahu from power at the same time. Nothing you or Oliver said presents a solution better than making war on Hamas.
For a lasting peace there can be no Hamas and no far right Israeli policies.
Now see, this is an honest discussion point. That is great start
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
But you can’t break the cycle without eliminating Hamas and you cannot eliminate Hamas without risking the death and injury of innocents. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
At least by eliminating Hamas you allow an opportunity for peace. If you leave them in power you have zero opportunity for peace. Yes you risk a new cycle, but a small chance is better than no chance. So Hamas must be eliminated.
None of which are "war crimes", nor is it the fault of Israel Hamas chose to use billions of international aid dollars to build weapons instead of hospitals, food, water resources.
This is NOT a both sides argument for anyone but the antisemites.
We'll agree to disagree. Anyone that doesn't support Israeli tactics does not make them an antisemite. It is that black and white attitude why that region never has peace.
A
anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
Guest
Wow….this “both sides” argument is disgusting….trying to blame some of this on Israel is as disgusting as Trumps both sides Charlottesville stance.
Exactly. Either you are on the side of good in this war or evil. The reality is just that stark.
Requiring Israel to follow a set of requirements set forth by other nations in the world that are in fact anti Israel is ridiculous. War is awful. The best way to end the suffering of civilian Gazans is to win quickly and decisively then help them rebuild a society that can get along like much of the rest of the Arab world, barring Iran of course, has figured out. Sure, many of these countries are ruled by leaders not super favorable to the West but at least they aren't launching terror raids and rockets into Israel on the daily.
If that is your belief....than it would reason that you would want to pick a side and see them wipe the other out.
