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Ohio Republican governor vetoes ban on gender-affirming care for minors

I thought some hormone therapies and puberty blockers were largely permanent?

@Urohawk
There can be some changes with bone density. The person would likely look different if they went through puberty- changes in height, body shape, etc. Lots of unknowns. I don't mind people being cautious. I would like to see some of these republicans fund research programs to better determine what is best for the patients but they just want to trigger the dems and fire up their base.
 
Claiming that hormone therapy is reversible is an outright lie. You cannot change a teenagers hormones during puberty and think that this can be reversed. No halfway intelligent person believes this load of shit you're spewing.
Give me your understanding of the pituitary gonadal axis? What are the implications of estrogen and testosterone on brain imprinting in testicular feminization and congenital adrenal hyperplasia? How about the effects of hormones on bone mineral density? I'll hang up and wait.
 
Uro does this kind of care. Just going off memory be he said that they won't touch surgery until they are adults. Until then it's hormone therapy which is largely reversible.
Most don't do any genital surgery until 18 or later. It's a matter of public record, but over a 3 year course we did two mastectomies in a 15+10 month old and someone who was 16 +10 days. Both had parental support and had been on treatment for years. The legal age of consent in KS for medical care is 16, not 18.
 
I guess there are no libertarians left in the GOP. They want more government when it comes to restricting other's lifestyles. They can talk about family values, but just not "their" family values.

I don't take a stance on the issue of the topic. I go both ways. I don't think kids' brains are fully developed to truly know what they are doing. That being said, I don't think MAGAs should be making the decision for them through legislation rather than discussions between professionals and the minor.
Some are still out there. That's why the GOP is getting their assess handed to them when they put abortion rights up to public vote.

Supporters of abortion access have emphasized ‘freedom’ and ‘values’ in successful campaigns in red-leaning states, with more to come in 2024​


By Molly Ball

Updated Dec. 30, 2023 12:10 am ET


Shortly after November’s state-level elections affirmed voters’ support for abortion rights in Virginia, Kentucky and Ohio, a Democratic pollster named Angela Kuefler got on a webinar to deliver an analysis—and a warning—to her fellow progressives. Yes, it was clear abortion was a winning issue, she said, but it mattered a lot how advocates talked about it.

“Talking about this in the context of values really widens our support,” said Kuefler, an adviser to the Nov. 7 ballot initiative in Ohio that added a right to abortion to the state’s constitution, winning by nearly 14 points in a state President Biden lost by eight. By values, she explained, she was principally talking about the idea of freedom. In polling by Kuefler’s firm, Global Strategy Group, majorities answered “yes” to both “Should we restore the rights we had under Roe v. Wade?” and “Should personal decisions like abortion be up to women rather than the government?” But the latter statement outperformed the former by a whopping 19-point margin, she noted, adding, “It’s the values language that allows us to win by such big margins.”

 
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Give me your understanding of the pituitary gonadal axis? What are the implications of estrogen and testosterone on brain imprinting in testicular feminization and congenital adrenal hyperplasia? How about the effects of hormones on bone mineral density? I'll hang up and wait.
R U familiar with the "Dutch Protocol," Herr Urohawk?
 
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Most don't do any genital surgery until 18 or later. It's a matter of public record, but over a 3 year course we did two mastectomies in a 15+10 month old and someone who was 16 +10 days. Both had parental support and had been on treatment for years. The legal age of consent in KS for medical care is 16, not 18.
You are a despicable piece of shit.
 
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I'm OK with leaving this to parents. That said, those parents need to be responsible for their decision. How about allowing the child to sue his parents after he becomes 18 if he regrets the decision.
 
I'm OK with leaving this to parents. That said, those parents need to be responsible for their decision. How about allowing the child to sue his parents after he becomes 18 if he regrets the decision.
Regret rates are about 1%. Data has been really stable. I would venture that is the same for most surgeries as that would correspond to significant complication rates. Someone gets back surgery and has worse pain, hip replacement gets infected, etc.

Regret rates higher than 1% typically are from the 80s. It was better to be a trans women than a gay man during the AIDS crisis so a lot of people that weren't truly trans altered their stance when AIDS crisis improved.
 
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Claiming that hormone therapy is reversible is an outright lie. You cannot change a teenagers hormones during puberty and think that this can be reversed. No halfway intelligent person believes this load of shit you're spewing.
Congrats, u have the lowest level of knowledge an opinion.
 
Regret rates are about 1%. Data has been really stable. I would venture that is the same for most surgeries as that would correspond to significant complication rates. Someone gets back surgery and has worse pain, hip replacement gets infected, etc.

Regret rates higher than 1% typically are from the 80s. It was better to be a trans women than a gay man during the AIDS crisis so a lot of people that weren't truly trans altered their stance when AIDS crisis improved.
It doesn't really matter what the regret rates are, emotionally, mentally, or because of complications. If a parent makes a life altering decision on behalf of a minor, they should be responsible for that. This is a little different than choosing a school or hairstyle.
 
Regret rates are about 1%. Data has been really stable. I would venture that is the same for most surgeries as that would correspond to significant complication rates. Someone gets back surgery and has worse pain, hip replacement gets infected, etc.

Regret rates higher than 1% typically are from the 80s. It was better to be a trans women than a gay man during the AIDS crisis so a lot of people that weren't truly trans altered their stance when AIDS crisis improved.


How long after the surgeries is data collected?

Are any studies long term, say 10+ years after surgery?
 
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Some are still out there. That's why the GOP is getting their assess handed to them when they put abortion rights up to public vote.

Supporters of abortion access have emphasized ‘freedom’ and ‘values’ in successful campaigns in red-leaning states, with more to come in 2024​


By Molly Ball

Updated Dec. 30, 2023 12:10 am ET


Shortly after November’s state-level elections affirmed voters’ support for abortion rights in Virginia, Kentucky and Ohio, a Democratic pollster named Angela Kuefler got on a webinar to deliver an analysis—and a warning—to her fellow progressives. Yes, it was clear abortion was a winning issue, she said, but it mattered a lot how advocates talked about it.

“Talking about this in the context of values really widens our support,” said Kuefler, an adviser to the Nov. 7 ballot initiative in Ohio that added a right to abortion to the state’s constitution, winning by nearly 14 points in a state President Biden lost by eight. By values, she explained, she was principally talking about the idea of freedom. In polling by Kuefler’s firm, Global Strategy Group, majorities answered “yes” to both “Should we restore the rights we had under Roe v. Wade?” and “Should personal decisions like abortion be up to women rather than the government?” But the latter statement outperformed the former by a whopping 19-point margin, she noted, adding, “It’s the values language that allows us to win by such big margins.”

Abortion has been a difficult issue for Republicans post Dobbs. It partially explains why they need to hyper agitate their base with misinformation over trans kids. States rights and individual rights up until they run counter to the religious views and bigotry of those in charge. Then it's about saving the children.
 
I have no problem with an adult making a major change to their privates.

A minor?

No freaking way.
 
It is very rare for minors to have surgery on their privates. This is one of those hot button topics that some want to lean on that really isn't a thing.

But how should we feel about a teenage girl having her breasts removed because that's sort of a trend right now amongst a sunset of lesbians that decided they were trans?

She may be happy that way -- she'll fit and enjoy the aesthetic for some period of time... Maybe forever?

But what if what was driving this wasn't a born that way condition?
 
But how should we feel about a teenage girl having her breasts removed because that's sort of a trend right now amongst a sunset of lesbians that decided they were trans?

She may be happy that way -- she'll fit and enjoy the aesthetic for some period of time... Maybe forever?

But what if what was driving this wasn't a born that way condition?
I have no idea how you should feel about a hypothetical that may never happen. These are decisions you will need to make on your own.


I know of no such trend going on anywhere but in your mind.
 
Again, because you say so? Hell you can't even convince yourself!
Well we don't have deep study into these questions period. In fact, inquiry into whether people claiming to be trans are at any deep level -- or what it even means -- is radioactive hot and scientific research is scant because of this. (Also it's a recently emerging phenomenon)

But we can infer that this might be so on different bits of evidence. We've seen an explosion in the number of females across the west calling themselves trans in the last decade. Numbers bear this out. We've seen lots of social media communities formed around the idea... Lots of glorification of things like breast removal surgery and its scars. The topic of trans itself could be said to be trending amongst youth.

And then all the anecdotal stuff... Lesbians claiming that we have a real emporerer has no clothes situation when it comes to lesbians coming out as trans in high numbers once the phenomenon hit. (Reciting stories of 3 or 4 of them in a college household coming out together)

There's plenty of reason to think this isn't a simple born this way scenario.

Unfortunately a lot of well meaning people defaulted to what we know about homosexuality and assigned the same answer to anyone that claimed to be trans in recent years.
 
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Well we don't have deep study into these questions period. In fact, inquiry into whether people claiming to be trans are at any deep level -- or what it even means -- is radioactive hot and scientific research is scant because of this. (Also it's a recently emerging phenomenon)

But we can infer that this might be so on different bits of evidence. We've seen an explosion in the number of females across the west calling themselves trans in the last decade. Numbers bear this out. We've seen lots of social media communities formed around the idea... Lots of glorification of things like breast removal surgery and its scars. The topic of trans itself could be said to be trending amongst youth.

And then all the anecdotal stuff... Lesbians claiming that we have a real emporerer has no clothes situation when it comes to lesbians coming out as trans in high numbers once the phenomenon hit. (Reciting stories of 3 or 4 of them in a college household coming out together)

There's plenty of reason to think this isn't a simple born this way scenario.

Unfortunately a lot of well meaning people defaulted to what we know about homosexuality and assigned the same answer to anyone that claimed to be trans in recent years.

If “numbers bear this out”, show your work. Otherwise I have zero reason to put any credence in this.
 
Uh oh. All the more reason to get these kids on puberty blockers ASAP. We should probably look at pubez blockers for everybody, just in case. Kids cannot consent to puberty, so let's just pause it for everyone.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1143198/restrictions-transgender-paris2024-games

Transgender athletes face increased restrictions ahead of the Paris 2024 Olympics compared to previous rules, as it was recently decided that they must have completed their transition before the age of 12 to avoid unfair advantages.
Transgender athletes face greater hurdles in qualifying for the upcoming Olympic Games, which will take place in Paris from 26 July to 11 August. It has been mandated that the transition must be completed before the age limit of 12, as doing so after that age could give an advantage over cisgender female competitors.

It is important to remember that Laurel Hubbard, a weightlifter from New Zealand, was the first openly transgender athlete to compete at the Olympic Games. Three years ago, at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics (held in 2021 due to the Covid-19 pandemic), she made history as the first openly transgender athlete to compete at the Olympics.

However, her performance in the women's +87kg category was modest. At 43, she was the oldest competitor at the 32nd Olympic Games, and after three unsuccessful lift attempts, her participation was reduced to an abduction that did not last more than 10 minutes.

Hubbard and other transgender athletes who had previously will not be eligible for the Paris 2024 Games. Restrictions on the participation of transgender athletes have become stricter since the last Olympics, with little to no room for interpretation, according to a report.
 
That's exactly what I've stated but appears no one actually wants to see the data or determine what is actually happening.
The bigots do not want facts. They want a wedge issue, and fear that doctors and teachers will turn their kids queer. It’s purely about spooking the herd to stampede over a small, powerless group of citizens.
 
@Gimmered @sober_teacher @SocraticIshmael


An ‘explosion’ in referrals​

The rise in the number of biological girls seeking referrals to Gids was set out in an interim report by Dr Hilary Cass, the paediatrician commissioned to conduct a review of the services provided by the NHS to children and young people questioning their gender identity.

The trend was confirmed by clinicians who spoke to the Guardian.

“In the past few years it has become an explosion. Many of us feel confused by what has happened, and it’s often hard to talk about it to colleagues,” said a London-based psychiatrist working in a child and adolescent mental health unit, who has been a consultant for the past 17 years.

Like all NHS employees interviewed, she asked for anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

“I might have seen one child with gender dysphoria once every two years when I started practising. It was very niche and rare.” Now, somewhere between 10% and 20% of her caseload is made up of adolescents registered as female at birth who identify as non-binary or trans, with just an occasional male-registered teenager who identifies as trans.

Another senior child psychiatrist said girls who wanted to transition made up about 5% of her caseload.

“In the last five to 10 years we’ve seen a huge surge in young women who, at the age of around 12 or 13, want to become boys. They’ve changed their name and they are pressing … to have hormones or puberty blockers”
 
@Gimmered @sober_teacher @SocraticIshmael


An ‘explosion’ in referrals​

The rise in the number of biological girls seeking referrals to Gids was set out in an interim report by Dr Hilary Cass, the paediatrician commissioned to conduct a review of the services provided by the NHS to children and young people questioning their gender identity.

The trend was confirmed by clinicians who spoke to the Guardian.

“In the past few years it has become an explosion. Many of us feel confused by what has happened, and it’s often hard to talk about it to colleagues,” said a London-based psychiatrist working in a child and adolescent mental health unit, who has been a consultant for the past 17 years.

Like all NHS employees interviewed, she asked for anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

“I might have seen one child with gender dysphoria once every two years when I started practising. It was very niche and rare.” Now, somewhere between 10% and 20% of her caseload is made up of adolescents registered as female at birth who identify as non-binary or trans, with just an occasional male-registered teenager who identifies as trans.

Another senior child psychiatrist said girls who wanted to transition made up about 5% of her caseload.

“In the last five to 10 years we’ve seen a huge surge in young women who, at the age of around 12 or 13, want to become boys. They’ve changed their name and they are pressing … to have hormones or puberty blockers”
I've seen the exact opposite which is why a single person is not data. It's an anecdote. Majority of people getting gender affirming surgery are males who identify as trans women. In fact the science shows that based on the number of people undergoing surgery in the US, more transwomen will get surgery. The thought is we are probably undergoing something like this. My grandfather is not left handed because when he was, the nuns beat it out of him.

screen-shot-2021-11-08-at-9.37.02-pm-1.png
 
I've seen the exact opposite which is why a single person is not data. It's an anecdote. Majority of people getting gender affirming surgery are males who identify as trans women. In fact the science shows that based on the number of people undergoing surgery in the US, more transwomen will get surgery. The thought is we are probably undergoing something like this. My grandfather is not left handed because when he was, the nuns beat it out of him.

screen-shot-2021-11-08-at-9.37.02-pm-1.png
"Muh left-handedness!"

Sinister "science," you quack.
 
@Gimmered @sober_teacher @SocraticIshmael


An ‘explosion’ in referrals​

The rise in the number of biological girls seeking referrals to Gids was set out in an interim report by Dr Hilary Cass, the paediatrician commissioned to conduct a review of the services provided by the NHS to children and young people questioning their gender identity.

The trend was confirmed by clinicians who spoke to the Guardian.

“In the past few years it has become an explosion. Many of us feel confused by what has happened, and it’s often hard to talk about it to colleagues,” said a London-based psychiatrist working in a child and adolescent mental health unit, who has been a consultant for the past 17 years.

Like all NHS employees interviewed, she asked for anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

“I might have seen one child with gender dysphoria once every two years when I started practising. It was very niche and rare.” Now, somewhere between 10% and 20% of her caseload is made up of adolescents registered as female at birth who identify as non-binary or trans, with just an occasional male-registered teenager who identifies as trans.

Another senior child psychiatrist said girls who wanted to transition made up about 5% of her caseload.

“In the last five to 10 years we’ve seen a huge surge in young women who, at the age of around 12 or 13, want to become boys. They’ve changed their name and they are pressing … to have hormones or puberty blockers”
Now do Autism.
 
Well, DeWine is now in favor or restricting care for trans adults. Amazing that GQP members spend so much time trying to control the health care of their fellow citizens.
They are throwing the argument that it's about, "Saving the children", out of the window and just admitting that it's about projecting their religion on other people, and they don't care about individual rights.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio...ng-care-for-adults_n_65abf646e4b076abd7abc40b
 
The bigots do not want facts. They want a wedge issue, and fear that doctors and teachers will turn their kids queer. It’s purely about spooking the herd to stampede over a small, powerless group of citizens.

So, when a youth has balls or a vagina is this a fact ? Or is it in their brain that they want to change?
 
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